GOTM 10 - First Spoiler

[BLubmuz]

I feel a bit "abandoned" from the Staff :
a second spoiler was scheduled for 10th, and not an announce saying it will be skipped or delayed.

With all the appreciation for their work and comprehension for their workload, 2 rows would be sufficient to keep our community informed.

 

[BCLG100]

It's only been a few days, ainwood's probably been busy banning folk

 

[Snetsinger]

Playing the adventure save and aimed for a cultural victory

Initially I moved my settler one SE and settled. I moved my warrior north up the pennisula to look for sea goodies. With my two archers I went exploring as far as possible and met Egypt, India and Mongolia. Later i used my archers and some other axes I built to fog bust and mark areas I wanted to settle.
Having the extra techs allowed me to research BW right away finishing it 3400 BC, and luckly Copper was in my capitals fat cross. I switched to slavery right away and wipped my first fishing boat.
I started focusing on settlers and escorts to expand as quickly as possible using the whip. I founded my second city Shanghai in 2590BC, 4N4E from the capital to work the gold, sheep and fish.
-1750 founded Guangzhau 1N4E of beijing to work the stone.
-730 BC built the Great Lighthouse in Beijing by chopping two forests, had to be sure I would build it because I wanted to make the most use out of sea tiles because I figured I'd have a lot of coastal cities.
-sadly in this year egypt settled Pi-Ramesses on the end of the river to the south which prevented my settling near the gems and another site by the horses on that river. With this set back I decided to settle treasure Island as quickly as possible.
-655 pyramids are built far away, possibly derailing my cultural victory
-505BC I founded Nanjing on the far corner of the Island because I now had to fit 9 cities into my small area of control so I wanted as many as possible on the island as a refuge incase I was eventually overrun on the continent.
-445BC Xian is founded 4n1w of the capital on the pennisulla so that the crabs fall just inside its fat cross.
-250BC The Colossus is built in Beijing to help strength my commerce production.
-85BC Chengdu Settled on the NE corner of Island
-10 BC Hangzhou founded on south tip of island.
-20AD switch to hereditary rule
-95AD I build the Great Library in Shanghai using a great engineer.
-215AD I finish the Hanging Gardens in Beijing, the last of the wonders I try to build there hoping the three there will be enough to produce legendary culture.
-380AD, I switch to organized religion. I have adopted no state religion, hinduism, christianity and judaism have spread into my kingdom and I want to be able to spread them all as quickly as possible without needing to build monestaries in my none cultural cities.
-440AD notre dame completed in Guangzhau, I think I rushed it with a GE but can't remember.


So at 500AD I have 7 cities, 3 religions, a strong economy based on sea tiles.
I'm researching Divine Right in hopes of founding Islam in one of my cultural cities if the AI doesn't research it first.

I'm last in score but have been keeping up tech wise through trading and my research not much slower than the AI's. Diplomatically I'm best buddies with Egypt and India. Lucky both of them do not get alone with Mongolia and do not have open boarders. This has allowed me to refuse mongolias demands without fear of attack. Even without the Pyramids, or as much land and resources as I planned for I still think victory is with reach.

Religion foundation dates
3670bc buddism
3580bc hinduism
1570bc judaism
580 bc confucianism
385bc christanity
65ad Taoism

I had no problems with barbarians but this is most likely due to egypt boxing my in early. As well I really really used the whip. My cities weren't great for hammer production so I focused more on food production and the whip to get my empire up and running

 

[Alraun]

So..... How do you like Immortal?

It's significantly easier than last months "Emperor" game.

 

[Piscator]

Perhaps it's just me, but in my game it seems foreign trade routes are broken. I'm connected to Asoka by sea and have an open borders agreement with him. However, the foreign trade routes aren't starting, while I can trade resources with him just fine.

First I thought it had to do with my being at war with Hatseput, but not so. The strangest thing is that in the 'demographics' I'm listed as 8/0 for imports/exports (first place), but I've no imports as far as I can see (I even counted the commerce in the cities).

Anyone else has seen this?

EDIT:
It seems to a glitch of some kind. As soon as I opened up the coast line on the south side (warrior exploring) and pacified Hatseput, foreign trade works with Genghis and another civ. My best guess for the cause of this glitch/bug is this.
1) I'm at war with Hatseput. The connection to Asoka on the northern coast is open.
2) Cultural borders of Hatseput expand onto the coast line, which should be blocking all trade (resources and foreign). It does not. I'm still able to trade resources (I'm gifting fish for a diplo bonus). Foreign trade does not work, but in 'demographics' it still shows 8/0 for imports/exports.
3) When I pacify Hatseput (to open up borders), the foreign trade with Asoka does not work (at that time the only connection). However, it still shows 8/0 in demographics.
Clearly a bug of some sort and definitely not one of the benificial kinds ;-)
Anyway I can trade with the other civs as long as I let hatsy live... Hmmm....


I'll write a spoiler later. I had quite a dreamstart with both getting a CS slingshot (1330BC) and getting the Pyramids (760BC). Now I just hope that I'll have enough time to finish this month. At least so far this game is turning out far easier than the average immortal game.

greetz,
Piscator

 

[The-Hawk]

I decided to go military this month... not sure I'll keep that strategy all the way to the end tho. My game is well past the first spoiler, and I didn't keep good notes, so I think I'll keep this brief.

Since I decided to go military, I wanted my capital to be a prod city. I decided the start location would make a fine GP factory some day, also figured that nobody would sneak in behind me to settle it. So, I decided to send my settler SE, SE. Once I got there, I decided to make a move NE to uncover more fog (I think I may have been able to see the sheep, maybe the gold already). I ultimately decided to settle on the plains hill that would give me gold, cows, sheep, and stone. I knew the city would never get to a high pop, but I figured it would be a good prod city and I wanted the early gold. Of course, once all the metal showed up near the original start, I think this would have been a better place. But at least it is still a fine GP factory.

IIRC, I got 3-5 cities up pretty easily. Unfortunately, I never noticed the special island tiles, so I never settled there. First order of duty was to go after Hatty with axes. Meanwhile, Genghis was wupping up on Asoka and getting pretty large. The other AI's were peaceful and teching away like mad.

Not sure where this will end up. I'm not in a bad position, but I'm starting to fall behind in techs. I need to find a way to get Cathy and Huayna to fight each other, but they are on the same religion and civics. Because of the religion situation this is not set up well for a fall back to diplo. Pretty soon I'm gonna need to deal with Mr. Khan who has all the looks of getting away from me.

/edit: almost forgot. I don't think I ran into one human barb other than an archer way far from my cities (I did see plenty of animals). My capital location busted a ton of fog, and Hatty and I filled the gaps pretty quick. I think I had 3-4 warriors busting the remaining fog.

More later...

 

[jesusin]

Jesusin, contender. Goal: fast military victory (had I known so many people were after culture, I would have tried too).

I wanted a military vistory and waters are low, so the initial plan is simply REX.

I moved the warrior to the hill, saw the corn and spent the next 90 minutes performing calculations and trying to decide where to settle. I finally settled 1SE. The second city went to the great plains-hill site 4E of the starting position. I am quite satisfied with this, both cities shared the corn and both had good production.

Initial happenings:
*Techs: Fishing-AH-BW. Then Wheel-Myst(for Obe)-Wri-Alphabet in 865BC-Lots of trades-Monarquy
*Production: Worker-Warrior-Boat-Settler(chopped and whipped)-War- Settler(chopped and whipped)-War Boat(exploring)
*Military: My initial warrior found 2 Egyptian workers out of their borders, followed by an Archer. I couldn’t resist the temptation. The good news is the Archer didn’t attack (maybe because out of borders?), so peace was easily done. Both workers came back home, following different paths. Nice start so far.
*Wonders: GreatLighthouse and Colossus. Failed Pyramids on purpose to fund my research. Hanging Gardens.

Quick settling made fogbusting unnecessary. Barbs (almost) only harassed my explorers. I used the whip intensively, since 2500BC till the end of the game. Hammers was the priority. Religion was completely ignored.

After such a good start, I became stupid around 1AD. My main errors were:
*The builder inside me took control, and developed a very strong economy that lasted for the whole game. Should have cracked units to take Hatty when she had only archers.
*Delayed Machinery for no reason (335AD). I had hopped that my GreatMerchant would tech it for me, but he wanted to research CS instead, my excel spreadsheet seem to be incorrect. Later on a GreatScientist preferred Philosophy to Optics, why is that? Please, someone, help.
*Built my seventh city far away, between Gengis and Hatty, just because I could. It never contributed to my empire and was difficult to defend in times of war.

So, at 500AD, I have only killed half of Egypt and have had to make peace because of lack of units. Hatty has Longbows.

1000BC stats: 4cities, 12pop, 3worker,0+Set, 2Boat, 6(Axe). Copper, horses. 1Lux, 4health. 16fpt, 28hpt, 26bpt,-4gpt, 5cpt, 0GPPpt. 43g. 2Barr, 3Obe, 0+Lib. 0WW. 8Tech: almost Alph. No religion. 4,5 ingame hours+3spreadsheet hours. 0 civs killed. 0/0 cottage used.

1AD stats: 8cities, 45pop, 5worker, Gal, Boat, 15(Eleph). Copper, Iron, Horses, Stone. 6Lux, 7health. 48fpt, 63hpt, 141bpt,-6gpt, 34cpt, 4GPPpt. 125g, 0GP. 2WW,0NW. 22Techs: IW,Alph, no CoL,MC,Monarq, Const, Calen. 3religion. 3/6 cottages used. 0civs killed. 10 hours. 3 sessions.

 

[Doc TK]

It's very interesting to see the different styles here. I was very conservative in this game because during my test games on immortal, I got smacked around by barbs, couldn't handle the maintenance with early expansion, got behind in the tech race, basically it didn't work out well. Of course, this isn't exactly a normal immortal game given the starting position.

My basic strategy was to try to take advantage of the food resources to be able to keep up with tech early and then start to attack mid game - domination win goal as normal. No religion adoption to be able to trade techs as much as possible. I expanded very slowly in terms of cities to keep maintenance down until I got Alpha, Curr, CoL. I also went fairly aggressive after Colossus and Great Lighthouse - Colossus may be the best cost-to-value build in the game.

Of possible interest:

a. Seems like some people aren't split on whipping. I whipped a TON pretty much every fifteen turns and would switch my build so that I could use up 3 pop or so with each whip - otherwise the happy limit was unbearable. In fact, I kept my city in place at the start so I could quickly have two fish boats and the wheat for whipping plus lots of commerce for tech. I didn't get to AH and the cow for quite a while because it wasn't that important given 3 food + copper was pretty awesome combo.

b. Dang - I wish I knew that I could get the Pyramids like someone did. I didn't even try. That would have been HUGE with my strategy. The extra happy + extra research. Rats.

c. Why aren't people going hunting early to get the +happy from the Elephant resource? Basically, Fish, BW (for whip), Hunt, Wheel (to hook up stuff), AH (cow), Write, Alpha, IW (Gems), Curr, CoL. Of course, lots of tech trading after Alpha... IW traded well as did Curr and CoL. Hunting earlyalso lowers the cost of AH - but since there were only two happy resources easily accessible seems like you have to hook it up early. Maybe I'm missing something but the happy limit is so low on Immortal that it's hard to play without getting the Elephant going asap.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

c. Why aren't people going hunting early to get the +happy from the Elephant resource? Basically, Fish, BW (for whip), Hunt, Wheel (to hook up stuff), AH (cow), Write, Alpha, IW (Gems), Curr, CoL. Of course, lots of tech trading after Alpha... IW traded well as did Curr and CoL. Hunting earlyalso lowers the cost of AH - but since there were only two happy resources easily accessible seems like you have to hook it up early. Maybe I'm missing something but the happy limit is so low on Immortal that it's hard to play without getting the Elephant going asap.

I researched hunting first of all (before I'd even seen the ivory). My motivation was firstly to get scouts in the hope of goody huts (didn't work, I guess Hatty had already eaten them all), and secondarily to lower the cost of AH. I did settle near the ivory fairly quickly (though I was eyeing up the gems as much as the ivory. Went between the two.).

(I wrote my report for the entire game in one go so waiting for the final spoiler to post it. Hence no post here )

 

[Shillen]

a. Seems like some people aren't split on whipping. I whipped a TON pretty much every fifteen turns and would switch my build so that I could use up 3 pop or so with each whip - otherwise the happy limit was unbearable. In fact, I kept my city in place at the start so I could quickly have two fish boats and the wheat for whipping plus lots of commerce for tech. I didn't get to AH and the cow for quite a while because it wasn't that important given 3 food + copper was pretty awesome combo.

Let's just say I've had a bit of a change of heart on whipping. I do think it's possible to overwhip but whipping is definitely very useful. Fortunately I didn't play with whipping in this game, though, since I played with the HoF mod before the bug discovery was posted. I probably wouldn't have even noticed the bug, myself, since I rarely whip.

c. Why aren't people going hunting early to get the +happy from the Elephant resource? Basically, Fish, BW (for whip), Hunt, Wheel (to hook up stuff), AH (cow), Write, Alpha, IW (Gems), Curr, CoL. Of course, lots of tech trading after Alpha... IW traded well as did Curr and CoL. Hunting earlyalso lowers the cost of AH - but since there were only two happy resources easily accessible seems like you have to hook it up early. Maybe I'm missing something but the happy limit is so low on Immortal that it's hard to play without getting the Elephant going asap.

I agree early hunting was huge on this map. Getting the ivory and gold hooked up asap was a huge early boost on immortal.

As for the Colossus, I don't know. I don't think it's a very good wonder. Of course I usually go for late-game peaceful wins so that's probably why. Every turn spent working the coast is a lost turn developing a cottage. But I guess if you're going for a military win then the early commerce boost is huge.

 

[RobertTheBruce]

Let's just say I've had a bit of a change of heart on whipping. I do think it's possible to overwhip but whipping is definitely very useful. Fortunately I didn't play with whipping in this game, though, since I played with the HoF mod before the bug discovery was posted. I probably wouldn't have even noticed the bug, myself, since I rarely whip.

I agree early hunting was huge on this map. Getting the ivory and gold hooked up asap was a huge early boost on immortal.

I added hunting earlier in my tech path than I usually do. The ivory was too tempting so I settled my second city near the ivory and researched hunting while producing the settler. I settled 1 SE of the starting location so the ivory was contained in the second border pop. The gold would have required a very slow growth or overlapping city so I went ivory, gold, gems (thanks Hatty). Getting ivory and gold early really helped my cities.

I whipped much less than I planned. With the cow, copper, fish, and corn (plus iron later) in my capitals fat cross, it was hard to whip until the happiness resources were hooked up and then the city was getting big. I usually don't whip when it results in not working a high hammer/food square unless I'm stuck at the happiness limit. I was developing cottages for faster research since I thought I had enough hammers and food to pump workers and settlers from the capital quickly. I whipped to build some building after the settlers and workers and whipped a bit more in my founded cities. Most of my whipping came later in the game to handle war weariness.

 

[MrWhite]

If you were running science at 30-40% with only 5 cities it sounds like you weren't working enough cottages/commerce tiles or you built too many units or you didn't let your cities grow enough.

Hatty also wanted to settle the northeastern copper in my game, but I just closed the borders when she tried sending her settler through my land.

You need Hunting to work the ivory, not Animal Husbandry.

Thx for the advise!!
It seems obvious I have to practice alot, also in what techs are needed to do what...

Obviously, that is why I play the GotMs, so I can learn

 

[Thrallia]

hm...and I didn't even realize that Ivory gave a happiness boost, possibly because I see it so rarely in my games.

 

[A+ombomb]

As for the Colossus, I don't know. I don't think it's a very good wonder. Of course I usually go for late-game peaceful wins so that's probably why. Every turn spent working the coast is a lost turn developing a cottage. But I guess if you're going for a military win then the early commerce boost is huge.

Wow....I can't agree with this at all. With the treasure island to the west, you can plant 3 cities on it and a bunch of coastals all around the main island for some incredible commerce boosts. You are absolutely correct about not working cottages being a longterm detriment, but why not just do both, with internal cities working cottages? I'd say in this game colossus may have been the MVP wonder for me, aside from perhaps the pyramids for some amazing representation beakers out of my GP cities.

 

[A+ombomb]

Well, after a lengthy hiatus playing multiplayer, I've decided to give this gotm a crack. Here's a brief rundown of what I did, from what I can remember (I didn't make a save until the end of my first session at 185 AD).

I decided to build one southeast, after discovering a third hill with my warrior. I like putting my capital and second city in a powerful manufacturing position to allow for rapid expansion, and the extra health from the river certainly didn't hurt. Although I considered building in place and just forming a GP farm with all the food, the hammers seemed a bit more important to me, and I figured I could use the other fish when I built on the island to the left. I began with a worker, as the total tech time for fishing and bronze working exceeded the build time for a worker by quite a bit, and I didn't see a point in starting a boat after 9 turns when I would not be able to slave it or build it quickly. After the worker, I started in on the fishing boat, and I hit bronze working for slavery just as I hit size 2. At about this time my exploring warrior happily waited for hatty to show unprotected workers and not too long after she obliged, giving 2 of them to me.

Back at home, I decided to work on a settler after the work boat. Since I could obviously not grow while building a settler, I worked the animal resource and my improved corn until I had 2 turns till growth to size 3, then slaved the work boat so that I would regrow to size 2 and produce the boat simultaniously. My worker chopped both forests into the settler in that time, and I had it out very rapidly. I decided to build on the hills/plains nearby since it could benefit from the corn I improved at my capital for some faster growth, and two other animal resources nearby that I had explored. The gold mine and stone had not been discovered yet, but I was definitely happy to see them. I went for mysticism after bronze working so that I could expand my border at my second city as quickly as possible once it was founded, then followed up with animal husbandry to improve the 3 animal resources. My two stolen workers built a mine next to my second city and prechopped a forest so it only took 3 turns to grab the obelisk, and from there began improving all the surrounding land.

At this point it becomes a little foggy what exactly I did, but I know I teched the wheel next, then sailing to quickly settle what I now realized was an amazing island to the west, then hunting, , masonry, ironworking, and finally pottery writing alphabet. All through this time I worked towards expanding as much as possible and building many workers. I found no reason to waste time on relatively useless wonders like the oracle, stonehenge, etc. I would have liked the lighthouse, but I felt the pyramids would be better for me, as I expected to make some very outstanding great person cities on the western island, so representation would provide superb research.

From here, I can't remember the details so much, but I do know that two barbarian cities sprang up and I was building up many swordsmen from city 2 and 3 to overtake them, and eventually hatty. My western island grew very quickly, and I used slavery extensively to complete all the projects and form 1 superb and 1 at par great person city (I felt it would be good to have several great person cities going this game, since I only planned on getting scientists and perhaps 1 engineer at most). Techwise, after alphabet I went for currency, code, civil service, then construction while trading several intermediary techs. With construction, overtaking hatty's archer swarms was a breeze, and I had lost only 1 unit during my taking of her first 3 cities.

At the end of my first session, I am still in the midst of overtaking hatty with swords and catapults, and I am researching literature for the great library. I have 72 population points, and a very vigorous research rate, fueled heavily by my first treasure island city, which has 6 scientist specialists under representation. I am probably going to aim for liberalism and cavalry as quickly as I can, while perhaps grabbing optics on the side for exploration and certainly astronomy soon after for overtaking any other island civs. I made the mistake of not building an early scout work boat, so I really have very little idea of what my island looks like and even who is on it, and I am sure it is also hurting my trade rate since I lack routes. More in the next spoiler...

 

[jesusin]

That looks like a very strong start, A+ombomb. Well done!
Only IW before Alphabet seems somewhat dubious. It is probably due to the lack of a exploring workboat.

By the way, do you know what was the reward for the brave sailors that spent 4000+years of exploring the world in a workboat? I just disbanded them!!!

 

[A+ombomb]

That looks like a very strong start, A+ombomb. Well done!
Only IW before Alphabet seems somewhat dubious. It is probably due to the lack of a exploring workboat.

By the way, do you know what was the reward for the brave sailors that spent 4000+years of exploring the world in a workboat? I just disbanded them!!!

I agree, building a workboat and going alphabet before IW might have been quite a bit better...but I am used to getting ironworking very quickly in multiplayer, and I had only contacted 2 civs when I was researching IW.

 

[Immaculate]

I had the worst luck ever. This was my first GOTM and i lost to barbarians. I built my capital 1 tile SE of the starting location and while building a settler and protected by an archer. Two barbarian warriors were able to kill my civilization. I had assigned an archer to proceed my to-be-built settler but i guess i should have had him stay home while waiting for the escort. Anyway, i intend to replay it and keep careful notes, but officially, i lost very early. I don't think it had anything to do with the difficulty or anything, more to do with bad dice.

So, is it worth replaying and posting my game now that i know about 2 neighbors and some of the island?

 

[AlanH]

You cannot submit your replayed game. If you want to post about it in the spoilers then you may do so, with a warning that it's a replay.

 

[archphoenix]

if only I download adventure class, should I finish the game, too greedy to download contender class, immortal AI beat me so easy despite my fertile start location.