GOTM 31 Spoiler 2: Start of Industrial Age, Full world map & all contacts

[mad-bax]

biny: I am not the trainer for GK2. I just designed the map. I do pass comment from time to time just because I can't help myself.

In this game I didn't get over the water fast enough, and I didn't notice the sea tile - though I don't know how that helps. Galleys sink at sea before astronomy. Conquest is doable at least 40 turns before I managed it on condition that map-making is reached in rather less than 80 turns and you get the lighthouse on that turn.

There is no secret to fast early expansion. In this case it was just a matter of setting up the settler factory, building an RCP ring in which you build a barracks and then warriors. As soon as you get 6 to 8 vet warriors, upgrade them to swords and go after your neighbour. Now you are settling towns every 4 turns minimum because of the settler factory, and you are capturing another town (or more) every turn. How well you do all this is mostly a matter of patience and attention to detail along with an economical battle plan. The battle plan is really just a route map of how to get from city to city in the fewest possible turns.

As I say, my plan fell over because at the point I conquered the starting continent I was not in a position to continue expansion overseas. It is difficult to express disappointment and yet claim victory in 940AD but that is the place I am at.

 

[Karasu]

Yes, it *is* difficult to express disappointment and claim a 940AD victory...
In fact, with that game you would have won the last GOTM by a large margin. So what would you have... congratulations or commiserations?

I think Offa's comment on the sea tiles was implicitly assuming that one has the Great Lighthouse. That made possible to reach the other continent from the west in two turns.

 

[mad-bax]

Yes, it *is* difficult to express disappointment and claim a 940AD victory...
In fact, with that game you would have won the last GOTM by a large margin.

That game was a different kettle of fish. More water for a start. I did actually complete that game "after hours", so I know how well you played it.

 

[Karasu]

Sorry. I just re-read my post.
It may look like gloating and even mockery -which is absolutely not the case.

I was just smiling for your disappointment for a truly fantastic result

 

[flexo]

Nothing much happened for me in this age. The pushed the English and the Iroq of my island, then I conquered their new island to the north.

The war vs the Iroq had generated two great leaders, one for an army the other one to rush Sun Tzu's. 2 Iroq cities reverted back to them and was promptly destroyed to push them for rising up against my benevolent conquest and rule of their puny civilization.

My golden age is triggered in 1275 with the construction of Bachs Cathedral.
The Greeks where the first other Civ I meet they came sailing in after researching Astronomy.

The Zulu and Germany where at war with eachother. They all have one island by themself, controlling more or less all of it. Some have a small town on another island but they usually flip back and forth as they war with eachother. Well I won't bother them if they won't bother me. Here I decide that a space race win was a really really long time since I went for last time. This will be my goal.

They are really ahead in tech in the middle of the era when we meet up but a switch from despotism to republic (7t) I do 4t researches until the end of the era when I have over taken them all. I knew hoarding all that gold had a purpose

I enter the next era first among the survivors.

 

[Offa]

3 turns.

I admit that I did permit myself a smile when I read your report.

Obviously I did mean to imply the possession of the lighthouse in allowing galleys to get over safely to the second continent. The Iroquois kindly built it for me, as they seem to have done for several others.

I don't doubt that much earlier wins are possible if science is emphasized more. Maybe 40 turns can be shaved off, I certainly was at the dom limit in 800ad, and my conquest got seriously bogged down for the want of cavalry. The game is vaguely similar to the Viking gotm when Qitai (now apparently retired) won in about 420ad.

I can't seem to get anywhere close to 4 turn research. How do I do it. Surely I don't have to build libraries? I probably should have done a palace jump as I didn't get a leader in the wars on the first continent, and therefore only had one core. DaveMcW's building of a ring around the city that is to build the FP is the sensible thing to do in this regard, but of course I didn't do it. I just can't bear to give up Paris.

 

[mad-bax]

I didn't mean to imply that I could have won 40 turns earlier. I think 25 turns if I had pre-built the lighthouse. I didn't bother with the great lighthouse because I couldn't find a crossing point that could use it, and when I did I had to build it from scratch and it took 25 turns. for 40 turns it would indeed require a Qitai, or does that sound arrogant?

 

[mabellino]

Headline:
High Desert Goes to Sleep During Middle Ages for Second Straight Month
Blunder of the Month. OK...can you top, er, go under this one!

Ok how about this one....


Forgetting to switch governments from Monarchy until the mid industrial ages!
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!
Then getting an 8 turn anarchy just to rub it in!

I'm sure I could have won this game by diplo or space ship if I'd just switched to democracy a bit sooner. Lesson is well and truly learnt.

Like High Desert I must have been comatose and just hitting end turn repeatedly.

Needless to say I think a win is out of the question this month (still my usual level is Regent and I'm currently in the Modern Age, so it can't be that bad!)

[PTW] 1.27f Open

 

[Drazek]

PTW1.27f

Well, I finished with a Domination win in 800CE, score 8677. I suffered heavy casualties. I think I lost TOO many battles, one game I remember where I had such huge losses and bad battle luck was gotm15, which I abandoned. I got my first leader in around 50BCE, which was good. But the second one wouldn't come I even tried to fish for him. Got the second in the same turn as Germans finished Leonardo's. Useless. Used rest of leaders to hurry settlers in captured towns. I had very problematic resistance, culture was nil compared to others, so I had to disband cavalries/workers to hurry settlers and I lost an army to a flip etc. Playtime was about 9h.

 

[Karasu]

@Offa
That's a good point about 4-turns research.
I remember reading about it in several players' posts some time ago as if it were something "normal".
I think -like most things- it comes down to fast expansion and development; although I did improve in this area, I never manage to keep that research rate throughout the ages.

I think building libraries does help (not everywhere of course), as does establishing wisely the second core.

Thinking of the Golden Age, it would seem best to have it at the end of the Middle Ages - beginning of Industrial, when research cost of the new techs almost doubles. I tried that in GOTM22 IIRC, but without any conclusive result.

BTW, congrats to you too -the competition this month is really high!


EDIT: Blunder of the month...

 

[Offa]

PTW1.27f

Playtime was about 9h.

How do you play so quickly?

 

[Kuningas]

In last two GOTM I got my first GLs around 1000AD. In this GOTM I didn't count on luck. I built FP in core and then abandoned capital. I had joined settlers and workers on London were my new capital appeared. 370BC iirc. Then all remained techs I learned in 4 turns. Entered IA 450AD.

Blunder of the month:
Here's another. (the clear winner ). Zulus nearly annihilated the carthaginians. So I landed stack on their shores with nice Zulu lands in my sight. I had gifted them to IA, 10 MA techs few turns earlier. So my stack faced Cavalry and Rifleman instead of Pikeman and Knights

 

[Kuningas]

@Offa
Thinking of the Golden Age, it would seem best to have it at the end of the Middle Ages - beginning of Industrial, when research cost of the new techs almost doubles. I tried that in GOTM22 IIRC, but without any conclusive result.

That's true. I triggered GA after I learned Steam Power. and my 4 turn pace continued on Electricity, Scientific Methods, Atomic Theory, Electronics and Radio.

 

[CKS]

PTW 1.27f

My middle ages went by with no huge mistakes, so I was pretty happy.

After the great library brought me into the middle ages and gave me feudalism, I started researching monotheism. Eventually I got republic from the great library, and in 620 AD I revolted, getting a 5 turn anarchy. In 660 AD I finally met the other civs. I don't remember who I met first, but I immediately bought contact with everyone else. I figured I'd get the most as the great library expired if I knew everyone. I ended up with printing press, chivalry, and gunpowder. This put me way ahead of the English and the Iroquois.

I started researching astronomy, but slowly. I bought music theory, astronomy, and navigation. MT and AST were cheap; NAV was expensive, but I sold it for a good price, and then sold my maps for a good price. In the end it cost me hardly anything.

Eventually I realized that both the English and Iroquois are far behind in tech. I should be able to take over the continent. The English have no horses, and while they have saltpeter they haven't done anything with it yet. I'm strong vs the English, so in 860 I declare war. I have some extra wine, so I give it to the Iroquois in hopes of keeping them out of the war. I'm not worried about anyone else joining in. England has nothing to trade, and they are all far away.

I didn't prepare well for this war. My military was strong, but mostly spread out throughout my territory (the entire southern half of the continent by now, except one tiny Iroquois tundra town). I should have held off declaring war until I had more knights and had positioned them on the borders. Despite this and a few stupid attacks across rivers, I slowly and steadily took the English cities. Most of the big ones I remembered to starve down by pillaging before attacking, so they lost their defensive bonus. In 930 AD England attacked a musketeer and my golden age started. Finally in 1150 I took London, which was their last city on the continent, and I made peace, getting Democracy and 12 g, which was all their cash. Their new capitol was on the northern island, and they had far less culture than I, even though mine was low, so I wasn't worried about flips. London had the pyramids and Bach's cathedral, and so this was a nice addition to my civ.

After assimilating the former English lands and waiting for my deals with the Iroquois to lapse, I started in on them. I declared war in around 1260, eventually taking most of their continental cities. Unfortunately for them, they had a few cities on the other side of the world, and everybody else ganged up on them. By the time I made peace, there were three former Iroquois cities on my continent that belonged to other civs, and I had all the rest. I got two off-continent cities in the peace deal, but I never did anything with them. At some time during this war I entered the industrial age, and so did the Iroquois at the very end, as I killed two conscript riflemen when I took Salamanca. I was more worried about flips this time (and I did have to retake one city during the war, but its spearman was no match for my cavalry), but everyone else quickly finished them off. My cities were safe.

I got a few demands from other civs during this time. If they were little, I just gave in. Greece demanded 27 g and my world map at a time when they already had the map and I had several thousand gold, so I gave it to them. There were a couple of large demands, and I refused them. I was feeling fairly safe because they were far away and my military was not tiny, but I did breathe a sigh of relief when they backed down.

I've been playing some easier games to practice different styles of play, and I think that is helping. My score is very high (for me - about 2000) since I took over the continent, and I never would have attacked first if I hadn't practiced a little. I'm hoping to be able to pull off a win, probably diplomatic as it seems to be easiest for me. I'll take anything, though. I've never won on emperor, and last month's GOTM was my first ever win on monarch.

(The playing different styles thing has been interesting. I like spaceship wins, and I find it pretty easy to win diplomatically (no wars or only a few defensive ones makes it easy to keep people happy). In my current game, I decided to try conquest and the conquest has been moving along nicely, but it looks like I'll have a cultural victory long before I get everyone else wiped out.)

 

[dojoboy]

Great games everyone, amazing finishes!

OPEN 1.29f

Middle Ages (50 BC) to Industrial Era (1210 AD)

The French Empire was embroiled in 5 wars during this time period; 3 of which were started by the French leadership (me ).

In 210 AD, I DoW'ed the Iroquois to begin westward expansion. After capturing two Iroquois cities and razing (auto-razed) a third, I settled for peace to regroup and to move on the English. The best I could get from the Iroquois for peace was Ganogeh and 2 gold. I rushed a settler to build on the razed Iroquois site.

350 - 400 AD ---> French Revolution brings in the French Republic, which sticks around a bit longer than the real France's first republic.

In 500 AD, I DoW'ed England, capturing four cities before signing peace (580 AD) w/ Elizabeth for Engineering, Music Theory, and contact w/ Carthage. This same turn I trade iron to the Iroquois for Invention plus other goodies. Later, 2 captured English cities would flip back to Elizabeth.

In 700 AD, I trade gunpowder & 179g to the Zulu for Astronomy.

In 820 AD, I trade saltpeter, Chemistry, wm, & 80 gold to the Zulu for Navigation & Banking. IBT ---> The Azteca DoW me for refusing their extortion demands. In 830 AD, I sign an MA w/ Carthage v. Azteca for wm & 90g. This leads to four other civs DoW'ing the Aztecs through MAs.

The Zulu DoW me (refuse extortion) in 970 AD one turn after I trade w/ them for 2 luxuries. Those bastards! Same turn see the destruction of Carthage at the hands of Shaka Zulu. Next turn, I sign a peace deal w/ Azteca.

In 1040 AD, while still fighting the Zulu (uneventful), I DoW the Iroquois for moving a small stack of Mounted Riders into my lands. We shared a RoP and there was no other reason for them moving to my southern most settlement. Greece would soon sign an MA w/ the Zulu against me. I end up paying for peace w/ the Zulu inorder to focus completely on the Iroquois, and I sign peace w/ the Greeks straight up, no reparations on either side.

In 1210 AD, I sign a peace deal w/ the Iroquois, after kicking them completely off the starting landmass (captured Sun Tzu's in Salamanca), for Magnetism, Mauch Chuak, & wm. Magnetism moves the French into the Industrial Era.

Assessment / Outlook

Regarding wars, I found the English to be rather stubborn, but the Iroquois folded like a road map. I think paying for peace w/ the Zulu was a good move because I feared more MAs against my emerging empire-like (In my mind only, for the moment.) nation. I plan to build the FP in Salamanca to balance the cities on the North Island once I assimilate England completely. Tech wise, I'm maybe one tech off the tech-leader at this point, and I plan to shoot for the ToE. A period of peace and development is needed for this goal to become reality.

 

[denyd]

I'm finally getting around to posting what's been going on.

A quick recap of the Ancient Ages show a peaceful game, with settling new towns and slow research (40 turn gambits on mathematics & currency).

I completed Colossus in Rheims in 570 BC and the Great Library in Orleans in 30 BC. The Great Library was my science from then until 850 AD. After upgrading a sizeable veteran warrior army to MDI, I began the first war of the game in 490 AD with a declaration on England. I razed 5 English cities (later re-settled) before accepting peace for another one. Paris completed Sun Tzu in 780 AD, but the Aztecs beat me to Leo's by 3 turns ( a very expensive University). In 930 AD I declared war on England taking London with the Great Wall, Pyramids & Hanging Gardens pushing Elizabeth off the main island. During the siege of London, a French Musketeer successfully defended against an English Knight and the French Golden Age began. With the backing of the Golden Age, the French zoomed ahead in tech and commerce, with Orleans building Smith's Trading Post in 1020 AD. When Germany landed 4 knights near a Musketeer defended city, I traded 75gpt to Otto for Democracy, just to see him attack on the next turn. My brave musketeeer survive the first 3, but died to the last one. Economics & a little gold got the Aztecs, Greece & Zulu to dog pile on Otto and that was the last I would see of Germany for quite a while. In 1150 AD I completed the research of Magnetism and entered the Industrial Age as the largest (land & pop), richest (GNP & treasury) and smartest (ahead by 3-4 techs) nation on the planet.

I'm still aiming for a histographic victory, although with the current lead in tech and military, Space, Conquest & Domination are also available.

 

[dojoboy]

When Germany landed 4 knights near a Musketeer defended city, I traded 75gpt to Otto for Democracy, just to see him attack on the next turn.

Very nice! I wish I would think of such stunts at the right moment. Hopefully, it'll begin to register subconsciously.

 

[denyd]

The gpt for tech deal does work quite often, but be careful, I did have one game where I traded 375gpt for Industrialization to England and instead of attacking me, she marched her troops through my land and attacked the Japanese and I ended up paying her the full price for 20 turns and then she attacked. I was in 5-turn research mode at the time and ended up getting only 1 more tech during the period. I tried demanding to remove the troops and all I got was, sure I'll move them each time.

 

[binyo66]

I used gpt-tech-war once, and gpt-alliance-tech twice (hope allowed)
First England sent an archer( ) to my teritory (she was furious), and I ask her to get lost (but there was no option for declaring war), she said that she came and go as she please (that was something ), I bought 2 ancient techs from England with GPT, and sure She declared war the next turn (2 tech free )
Second, before I got UN, Greek Last City I protected for voting (which was inclusive), then the next turn I alliead for 100-150GPT to Aztec and Germany, and sold a tech (with a good price of course). The greek last city was guarded by only a WORKER .
Third, before Aztec was gone (I protected his last city as well), and this time I needed money badly for Space Race (game was already boring) tech. So I allied Germany for 700GPT and sold 2 techs for 600GPT. Sure in one turn Aztec was gone, and I won space race in the next 18 turns (I think it was 1920 or something). This is the first time I won by space race on this kind of level (monarh/emperor).
@mad
It seems that other than settler factory u just build bunch of warrior kind of unit (without building any culture/science building) ?

 

[Mauer]

Well I won't bother them if they won't bother me.

Yeah right. If I wasn't at war with somebody, I wasn't playing it at the time. And I only declared half of them