Roland Ehnström said:
So no Warrior for MP duty, then? I was going to ask that: On Deity, do you ever build Warriors simply to do MP duty, or do you always just use the luxury slider? Do you perhaps slightly later build Warriors in other towns and move two of them to the settler factory to keep happiness in check, or is that also not worth it, you think? Also related: On a Deity Pangaea, is it not a huge risk to leave your capitol undefended for a long time?
I usually don't build warriors just to do MP duty. I tend to use the luxury slider whenever necessary, eventually using MPs when I have units available without extra effort to build them. E.g. because a scouting warrior has returned home, or because a new town somewhere built a warrior first to avoid overrunning shields when building a worker or settler, or because I have a warrior+settler factory and warriors to spare, or because I'm building some warriors as a minimal defense. For any of those reasons I can end up with a few units to spare and when they're not needed elsewhere they get used for MP duty. Sometimes I do build a unit or two specifically for MP duty when the game has progressed to a point where I have a number of cities and just a few need a lot of extra happiness. That sometimes happens with a settler factory or in a town building a wonder or FP.
It is a risk to leave the capital undefended at any level. It is only a bit worse at deity, and that mainly due to the number of units the AIs have I think. It seems to me that the risk depends most on the map - the paths the AI units follow in exploring it and how soon they run out of land. I don't understand the factors governing the risks very well. I do know that:
1) If an AI military unit can reach an undefended rival town in one turn (one step for a warrior, two for a horseman) then the chances of it declaring war are much higher at that moment. The AI is aware of the opportunity that situation presents.
2) I tend to push the limit a bit harder than I should. I've been nailed a couple of times by AIs attacking when I was far from ready, once painfully losing my undefended capital.
In my experience very early AI attacks other than the one mentioned in case (1) above are rare. So I try to play to that probability while maintaining a backup plan in case of disaster. For example, if I'm pumping two turn workers in an early town and there's no enemy within two tiles I'll be relatively unconcerned about protecting it. If an enemy moves within two tiles I can always flip my build to have a warrior before he arrives beside the town. The more scouting distance I have, and the more nearby units I have (even just a couple of warriors doing MP duty while inactive in a single central town) the less I'll worry about an AI invasion. Once I have Warrior Code I worry less again - there are often some early towns with a build of something else (e.g. barracks or galley) which can, if I feel threatened, switch to hurry an archer. Pop rushing is another safety valve.
Nonetheless, this is probably a map requiring more caution than most. We're near the center of a pangaea world. We might be a "grand central station" with AIs criss crossing our lands as they explore or march on each other. If that's the kind of situation that develops then I'll be building more early military units than usual! (Maybe even one per town? Nahhhh
)
I also want to point out that if an AI decides to attack in the very early part of a deity game, there won't be any stopping it. I only remember having that happen on some small/tiny deity maps I tried. But I guess it is possible on any map. If it does happen that's the end. Having built 3 or 4 warriors won't make any difference. So I won't worry about it and won't try to block it since I can't
Nichelle said:
I have noticed that most people are planning to work the cow then immediately go to the fur or game. I'm curious why one wouldn't work the bg before the fur or game?
Going to the cow first is kind of obvious ( even to me
) but road/mine the bg and then going to fur or game would seem the way to go.....what exactly is the benefit of working the forests before the bg. I do understand the benefit of the shields that you get from chopping and the benefit of a lux hook up ( or am I wrong about that too.....), but getting the moo and bg and then crossing the river to the forests seems a bit more efficient?!?!??!
Welcome Nichelle!
I think you are right to be confused. It is not obvious to me that working any one of the game forest, fur forest, or BG after the cattle is definitely the best thing.
My first inclination is definitely to work the game forest after the cattle because that's the tile which can yield extra food. And extra food is usually the best thing to go for first.
Working the BG first has the advantage of sustaining maximum production. We can grow to size 2 while irrigating the cattle, then the second citizen could work the game forest while the worker mines the BG, and the third citizen would soon also be producing 2s/turn.
Working the fur forest has different advantages. After clearing it, mining it will produce a 2s+2f+2g tile, same as a mined roaded river BG. And roading it after clearing it (more efficient to do road on a cleared tile) will connect a luxury. Still to me this seems the worst of the 3 choices. It gains income by reducing the need for the luxury slider. But I don't expect to need income at the start anyway. I won't be doing flat out research at the start of a deity game. So I'm inclined to either go straight for the food (game forest) or go via the BG, mining it first and then heading for the game forest. The furs can come afterward.
To further complicate things there's the thought of producing a second worker very early. If we do that then mining the BG quickly is a bit less important - it will be longer before we reach size three and by then we can have done more other work.
So it isn't obvious what's best and that's even before we see more tiles and have our choices increased
Nichelle said:
I would think that building a few more scouts early ( 2-3 ) would be of greater value than a worker or a warrior. Not forgetting the grainery asap; but, when I have played around on deity it seems that early exploration and contact is a greater benefit than almost anything else ( this is a general statement not meaning forgetting settlers and growth being highly important ).
What you say about the benefits of early exploration is definitely true and I think especially so at deity level. To my mind the most important goal for early exploration is to try to maintain technical parity for a while. Eventually it will be lost at deity level unless we have great goody hut fortune. And probably won't be regained until at least the late Middle Ages and perhaps much later. But if we can maintain parity for a while at the start of Ancient Times it will help.
Early explorers can maintain tech parity for a while by:
a) Meeting other Civs while we still have something of interest to them to trade.
b) Popping tech from huts.
And both of the above can be leveraged further the more contacts we have.
Having said all that, my feeling is that there's still no substitute for a strong start in the core. Every early gain I make in core development will pay back by being a bit stronger later in the game. So there's a tradeoff here. My initial thinking is that I'll tradeoff at the level of sending out one additional scout and then focussing on core buildup for a while. But I'll be flexible in this thinking as events unfold. E.g. if I can get an additional scout by delaying my first settler just one turn then I'll be more tempted than if it costs me two turns.
, then we might only have room for four or five, and those packed very tight. However, if past games are any indication, we will probably have room for 15-20 cities (if you get a four-turn settler factory or two up and running), which is more than enough even on Diety level.
.
), I am hoping some of you might help me along with this. 
