Ribannah
Fighter Druid
Dynamic, did you use the new graphics for your testshot?
Gotm20-Spain Pregame Discussion
- Thread starter cracker
- Start date
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
Now that I think about it, you are right. I did some test, and the wheat would be sticking up too far on the tile for it to be wheat (if using the default graphics). I don't know what it could be. I'm going to do some more tests.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
Ok, here it is. Got a duplicate of the start. It is incense on desert.
EDIT: Hopefully Cracker won't give us that crappy of a start!!!
EDIT: Hopefully Cracker won't give us that crappy of a start!!!
Norlamand
Procrastinator Rex
Great! I still haven't finished my first GOTM (Ottomans) and now I have the prospect of having my *#%! slammed in the door by a deity level game. If it wasn't for the love of the challenge I would just give up and save myself the pain. I have to admit though, these GOTM are much more interesting and challenging than the multiplayer or standard games. Thanks for all the effort. 
ltccone
Prince
I think I will build the city right where the settler starts. I'm going to move my settler SW where it will build a road and irrigate (to get some shields!) and then S to build a road to hook up the incense. At Diety it is hard to keep people happy!
Txurce
Deity
There is no warrior from a hut. We got a break with The Wheel, instead.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,068
The Goody Hut benefits for you as the Human player included one additional technology that we have assigned to be "The Wheel" as well as 25 additional gold units for your treasury.
Ok, my bad. That answers the no dicussion issue quite well, as I created a phantom unit.
Ok, my bad. That answers the no dicussion issue quite well, as I created a phantom unit.
In light of Bampseedy and DaveMcW 's analysis, I think I will send my worker to the South first to see what is there. Whether or not if there is any wheat in the S+SW tile, I will move my settler SW and build my palace there. Of course, my second and thirth cities will be on top of those two hills as seen at the starting position.
Ribannah
Fighter Druid
Originally posted by Bamspeedy
Ok, here it is. Got a duplicate of the start. It is incense on desert.
Bamspeedy, where did you get that first image? It doesn't look like the official one (look at the forests!):
vanatteveldt
Emperor
I assume it is the 'shadowed' version of his island to show it's identical to the 'official' start position, need to check whether his shafowed picture and the official shadowed picture are pixelwise identical but I assume that is what he tried to show.
(I do wonder where he got the extra unit
)
[edit: got it, he tested using americans, sorry for that]
[Edit] I can confirm bamspeedy's findings. I tested using a scenario with and without resources, and at 400% zoom the resources in the official screenshot are obviously there:
Wheat: left to right test withouth resource, official screenshot, test with resource
Incense: same order
Note: Normally I'd prefer to spend half an hour playing rather than half an hour damaging my eyes by peeking under shadows, but I got intrigued by people seeing things that I can't... I made a small program that XOR'd all pixels in different screenshot but the result doesn't seem meaningful - does anyone have an idea of how to compare two screenshots while accepting that they won't be identical due to river, forest behaving differently? The difference in pixel colours of things under the shadow is so small that other variation in plain rendering, river etc. seems to outweigh it...
Note2: The fact that spain is whiteish instead of blue seems to indicate that at least china or america is in play as well, forcing spain away from its favourite colour. Another piece of useless pregame info :-D
[/Edit]
(I do wonder where he got the extra unit
)[edit: got it, he tested using americans, sorry for that]
[Edit] I can confirm bamspeedy's findings. I tested using a scenario with and without resources, and at 400% zoom the resources in the official screenshot are obviously there:
Wheat: left to right test withouth resource, official screenshot, test with resource
Incense: same order
Note: Normally I'd prefer to spend half an hour playing rather than half an hour damaging my eyes by peeking under shadows, but I got intrigued by people seeing things that I can't... I made a small program that XOR'd all pixels in different screenshot but the result doesn't seem meaningful - does anyone have an idea of how to compare two screenshots while accepting that they won't be identical due to river, forest behaving differently? The difference in pixel colours of things under the shadow is so small that other variation in plain rendering, river etc. seems to outweigh it...
Note2: The fact that spain is whiteish instead of blue seems to indicate that at least china or america is in play as well, forcing spain away from its favourite colour. Another piece of useless pregame info :-D
[/Edit]
scubagtr
Scuba Gator
Moonsinger,
Do you usually build your cities with just one space between them?
Do you usually build your cities with just one space between them?
The image looks to be altered with a loss of detail, not sure what this is other than maybe things done to post it (not the 75% sized on which is obviously not an accurate picture) or on purpose. Its hard to say really I don't have the default tiles so can do any comparisons, but it could just be smoke screen cracker has devised so that nothing concrete can be stated here.
It looks like we have at least one incense, and I seem to think I see at least 2 more. Then it also looks like a wheat on one of the flood plains se, se or se, s, then again it also looks kinda like wheat se, e but that is most likely a desert but you never know. One thing that does however rear its head is that insense is very easily identifiable because it really comes out of the shadow. Since we aren't seeing this as clearly, cracker has blurred it on purpose, or it definately is not there.
But on another note, Bamspeedy whats up with your image there seems to be some odd errors in the image, which have no explaination? For instance (This is the tile s, sw from start):
Edit: On further study, the image is littered with these anomolies Bamspeedy. I assume that image is jpg or gif, only gif could potentially maintain the original image colors and quality, but when you combine large sections from other parts you run the risk of having too many colors and thus expending your allowed 256 with gif. Of course jpeg is lossy so has no chance to maintain an image for proper zooming and analysis.
It looks like we have at least one incense, and I seem to think I see at least 2 more. Then it also looks like a wheat on one of the flood plains se, se or se, s, then again it also looks kinda like wheat se, e but that is most likely a desert but you never know. One thing that does however rear its head is that insense is very easily identifiable because it really comes out of the shadow. Since we aren't seeing this as clearly, cracker has blurred it on purpose, or it definately is not there.
But on another note, Bamspeedy whats up with your image there seems to be some odd errors in the image, which have no explaination? For instance (This is the tile s, sw from start):
Edit: On further study, the image is littered with these anomolies Bamspeedy. I assume that image is jpg or gif, only gif could potentially maintain the original image colors and quality, but when you combine large sections from other parts you run the risk of having too many colors and thus expending your allowed 256 with gif. Of course jpeg is lossy so has no chance to maintain an image for proper zooming and analysis.
Attachments
zagnut
Monarch
In playing a few practice Deity games with floodplains, I found that I lost a lot of people to disease. I am wary about building a city in the start position because of that.
Perhaps I will move a square west. I will still be on the river and perhaps on the coast. BUT, what I am not sure about is whether disease strikes only if your city is next to the river containing the floodplain (the start position), or if the floodplain is anywhere within the city borders. Does anyone know the answer to that?
Perhaps I will move a square west. I will still be on the river and perhaps on the coast. BUT, what I am not sure about is whether disease strikes only if your city is next to the river containing the floodplain (the start position), or if the floodplain is anywhere within the city borders. Does anyone know the answer to that?
Davemcw - I decided to try what you mentioned. for the almost 5 turn factory, thinking the city square gives an extra shield at size 7. How are you getting 10 total shields at size 5 with 2 turn growth?
I am getting
size 5
turn 1)
+3 food flood plains
+2 shield irrigated plains
+1 shield city center
3 shields total
turn 2)
+2 shield irrigated plains
+1 shield city center
+2 shield forest
8 shields total
size 6
turns 1&2)
+2 food flood plains
+4 shields forest
+1 sheild city center
+1 food irrigated plains
20 shields total
turn 3
+2 food flood plains
+4 shields forest
+2 sheild city center (size 7)
+2 food irrigated plains
28 shields total
If we could get those 2 extra shields at size 5 it would work
I am getting
size 5
turn 1)
+3 food flood plains
+2 shield irrigated plains
+1 shield city center
3 shields total
turn 2)
+2 shield irrigated plains
+1 shield city center
+2 shield forest
8 shields total
size 6
turns 1&2)
+2 food flood plains
+4 shields forest
+1 sheild city center
+1 food irrigated plains
20 shields total
turn 3
+2 food flood plains
+4 shields forest
+2 sheild city center (size 7)
+2 food irrigated plains
28 shields total
If we could get those 2 extra shields at size 5 it would work
Zagnut I think you only get disease if you are working the floodplain tiles. I set up a city with some floodplains in radius, but not working them (and no city growth). Then just held down space until the AD's with no disease. After switching to the floodplains i quickly got disease.
I edited my post with the corrections.Shaker Zulu
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 2
Hello, this is my first post! first of all, I would like to say that I am surprised of how deeply admitted all players in this forum are to the game we are talking about.
My aim for this gotm will be to still be found on the map when the game is over. I am not a Civ-Crack(er) and deity level is way too hard for me.
Of course I have some ideas for the game and especially the start. To join in the supernatural "resource-seeing": I believe, after blowing up Crackers pic, there is incense on the tile sw-s and wheat on the tile se-s. This means at the starting posisiton you get access to incense and wheat bonus when the city radius expands (that seems o.k. to me).
I've become familiar with settling in the first turn no matter what the starting position looks like. In my single player games I usually put the worker in the city to let it produce and grow faster.
Making one move with the settler means being one extra turn behind. This is no good idea I think.
Thank you for your advice. I'm looking forward to Sundday ....
My aim for this gotm will be to still be found on the map when the game is over. I am not a Civ-Crack(er) and deity level is way too hard for me.
Of course I have some ideas for the game and especially the start. To join in the supernatural "resource-seeing": I believe, after blowing up Crackers pic, there is incense on the tile sw-s and wheat on the tile se-s. This means at the starting posisiton you get access to incense and wheat bonus when the city radius expands (that seems o.k. to me).
I've become familiar with settling in the first turn no matter what the starting position looks like. In my single player games I usually put the worker in the city to let it produce and grow faster.
Making one move with the settler means being one extra turn behind. This is no good idea I think.
Thank you for your advice. I'm looking forward to Sundday ....
Boyd
North of 60o
My goodness... all this peeking under the shadows, it sounds like reading tea leaves.
However once I got home (yes, I was using my work computer) with my much better computer (an iBook), i must say that there are definately things in the south.
The assessment of an incense and a wheat look convincing.
The question is whether to:
1. still send the worker to the NE hill;
2. build my capital at the start;
3. move the worker south; and/or
4. move the settler south.
For me the issue really is is it worth it to be beside the bonus resources from the time of city creation, or build immediately and capture the resources on turn ten when cultural expansion occurs.
For the mathemeticians out there, is there a substantial bonus to delaying city construction by one turn so as to be beside floodplain wheat and/or desert incense as opposed to immediate city construction under deity?
However once I got home (yes, I was using my work computer) with my much better computer (an iBook), i must say that there are definately things in the south.
The assessment of an incense and a wheat look convincing.
The question is whether to:
1. still send the worker to the NE hill;
2. build my capital at the start;
3. move the worker south; and/or
4. move the settler south.
For me the issue really is is it worth it to be beside the bonus resources from the time of city creation, or build immediately and capture the resources on turn ten when cultural expansion occurs.
For the mathemeticians out there, is there a substantial bonus to delaying city construction by one turn so as to be beside floodplain wheat and/or desert incense as opposed to immediate city construction under deity?
Great discussion!!
As a commercial civ on Diety, the knowledge of Alphabet, the most expensive first tier Ancient Era Tech, is a tremendous trading advantage, but only if you can make contact with the other civs first. Couple that with knowledge of the Wheel, and the Spanish will be able to obtain nearly any early trade they desire. I'll first check the F10 - Space Race function to see how many other commercial civs there are. If there are several (which is likely), then I know that the clock is ticking. I want warriors out scouting ASAP!!
This makes the hill location to the NE even more appealing. If I move my Settler NE, then I gain visibility over many more squares, I have a more defensible Capital city location and I'm still adjacent to one of the known forest squares. Assuming nothing exciting is uncovered, I'll found Madrid on the hill, and start irrigating the Floodplains just South of Madrid. (May require a 2nd worker move if I choose to scout first.)
Now, to speed my first warrior, I'd start my citizen in the Forest for 3 turns, then move him to the Floodplains. I'll have lost out on 3 food (which is one turn once the Floodplains are irrigated) and 3 commerce. However, I'll build a warrior 6 turns earlier. I'm betting that the extra 6 turns of scouting may mean the difference in making critical early trades with nearby civs. I might repeat, or switch into growth mode once the irrigation is finished.
All the nearby plains will require improvements; this may necessitate an early 2nd worker. These plains spaces are very flexible; typically I'd irrigate them to get the extra food and maintain the production. Because of all the floodplains, I plan to mine some, giving me the same food/shield/commerce ratings as Hills is Despotism, but with half the worker movement cost. Having some plains be irrigated and some mined means a lot of MicroManaging; skills at MM will be needed for this terrain.
I'm planning to research Writing at minimum from the start; I may increase my research as I learn more about the game. With the Spanish starting Techs and the right contacts I should be able to trade for most or all of the first tier techs. If there are no nearby commercial civs, I might actually get Writing first, which should gain me a number of 2nd tier techs, also. I don't plan on building any early wonders; I'd like to make it into the Middle Ages!!
I haven't played as the Spanish, and I'm not sure of the best use for their UU. Resource pillaging sounds quite good; perhaps place several Conquistadors several spaces into enemy territory to pillage resources, cut supply and access roads, harrass workers, defenders, etc; while the main attack force is taking border towns. If the conquistadors get beaten down, they can quickly retreat to friendly territory. I doubt that much of the map will be available to explore by the time they get around, but I could be wrong.
Those are most of my thoughts and plans going in.
As a commercial civ on Diety, the knowledge of Alphabet, the most expensive first tier Ancient Era Tech, is a tremendous trading advantage, but only if you can make contact with the other civs first. Couple that with knowledge of the Wheel, and the Spanish will be able to obtain nearly any early trade they desire. I'll first check the F10 - Space Race function to see how many other commercial civs there are. If there are several (which is likely), then I know that the clock is ticking. I want warriors out scouting ASAP!!
This makes the hill location to the NE even more appealing. If I move my Settler NE, then I gain visibility over many more squares, I have a more defensible Capital city location and I'm still adjacent to one of the known forest squares. Assuming nothing exciting is uncovered, I'll found Madrid on the hill, and start irrigating the Floodplains just South of Madrid. (May require a 2nd worker move if I choose to scout first.)
Now, to speed my first warrior, I'd start my citizen in the Forest for 3 turns, then move him to the Floodplains. I'll have lost out on 3 food (which is one turn once the Floodplains are irrigated) and 3 commerce. However, I'll build a warrior 6 turns earlier. I'm betting that the extra 6 turns of scouting may mean the difference in making critical early trades with nearby civs. I might repeat, or switch into growth mode once the irrigation is finished.
All the nearby plains will require improvements; this may necessitate an early 2nd worker. These plains spaces are very flexible; typically I'd irrigate them to get the extra food and maintain the production. Because of all the floodplains, I plan to mine some, giving me the same food/shield/commerce ratings as Hills is Despotism, but with half the worker movement cost. Having some plains be irrigated and some mined means a lot of MicroManaging; skills at MM will be needed for this terrain.
I'm planning to research Writing at minimum from the start; I may increase my research as I learn more about the game. With the Spanish starting Techs and the right contacts I should be able to trade for most or all of the first tier techs. If there are no nearby commercial civs, I might actually get Writing first, which should gain me a number of 2nd tier techs, also. I don't plan on building any early wonders; I'd like to make it into the Middle Ages!!
I haven't played as the Spanish, and I'm not sure of the best use for their UU. Resource pillaging sounds quite good; perhaps place several Conquistadors several spaces into enemy territory to pillage resources, cut supply and access roads, harrass workers, defenders, etc; while the main attack force is taking border towns. If the conquistadors get beaten down, they can quickly retreat to friendly territory. I doubt that much of the map will be available to explore by the time they get around, but I could be wrong.
Those are most of my thoughts and plans going in.
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