Gotm20-Spain Pregame Discussion

[Stone Wolf]

You could always black out the edges of the surrounding terrain that we can't see entirely. Unless, of course, you enjoy the speculation as much as I certainly would in your place.

 

[Stone Wolf]

Originally posted by Yndy
Stone Wolf, I was going to say you can only build the GL with a leader, but if Txurce says otherwise, you might get a chance (i never bothered to tell you the truth). Just remember that the AI usually build the GL around 750BC to 500BC.

Heck, 750 BC I can handle. I've seen the AI build the pyramids around 950 BC on Emperor, and I'm worried that if 2 civs are close, they might cascade the Pyramids and the GL even earlier! I'll probably go for it if the terrain is suitable in an inland city, so I can switch to FP if I get beat out and then build a new palace elsewhere. I'd rather go for another wonder, but that might not be possible.

 

[gozpel]

First of all I want to thank AR (Anonomous Reloaders) and their support group. Now I understand how important the support really is. Reading this thread, where ppl analyzes pixels to the left and the right, to see if there are resourses or not....Ah, this makes me dizzy.
What to do, what to do?

IF: I move east I will probably hit bonus grass...at least I hope there is.
But: If there is wheat and incense SW, I'll have to settle there later...

The yearning for reloading will be POWERFUL, but I will win this battle again and make a decision before I move anything....and then stick to it

A thought about the horses, if they are close early they can be of a great advantage. Thinking of my playing style here and using the Dirty Dozen for short wars (maybe Dirty Dozen and a half on Deity?) and try to grab land by force. That can ultimately make a big difference...and after all, Deity is not for builders like me...I'm trying to be more offensive and I love the horsemen raid!

 

[Qitai]

If we are lucky enough to have horse in the radius of the first city, that would be GREAT!!!!! Better/faster exploration and barbarian response!! Could potential help a great deal in trading too if it allows us that earlier contact within our own continent.

 

[Boyd]

Following the link Ambiorix provided above, after I read cracker's discussion, I downloaded the test game (Gotm 8) and have been tinkering.

1. By choosing India you of course replicate the cultural attributes of Spain (Religious & commerical)

Almost forgot... switch the settings from monarch to deity!

2. I decided to go with just the six civs but maybe I should do eight as we have ten to compete with...

3. India's set starting place on the map is a floodplain with NO bonus resources in the visible squares (unless you count floodplains)

4. Disband all the extra units before you establish your city

5. Begin...

I'm playing two versions at once... one where I move my worker onto the hill and then move my settler SW along the river... after that I mine the plains and follow cracker's resource extraction model.

In the other version, I settle immediately and get the worker working.

In both versions I'll try some pop rushing... the whole thing is tricky as there is a lot of micromanaging and I bothced one pop rush already (I needed to let the city move a bit past three pop to get the settler on the map right away).

i have found myself uncomfortably close to another civ and barbs... but the goodie huts have been tremendous (okay one warrior bit it but techs and a settler which made up for the botch!)

The other thing to keep in mind is since you are replicating an AI, is that you have a somewhat inflated treasury and no extra tech.

I won't spoil all the fun for those who want to try it... it of course is not a complete replication of our next Gotm, but there are enough similarities...

For a rookie like me, when combined with the discussion and cracker's analysis, it is a good tool.

 

[Ambiorix]

Thanks Yndy and all others. I've been planning to look at some ongoing and past deity-training games, but haven't gotten round to it yet. Yndy, your deity-training will be very welcome. Hadn't thought of looking in the tournament forum either.

I think financing wars to let other civs fight each other would fit just perfectly in the historical context.

 

[Yndy]

I may have used the wrong words. It was a training game for me and not as in the SG forum training games. I started with Celts and went for a domination victory.
Actually I'm in 590AD and still fighting but the game is winnable. Tell me if you want me to upload it.

 

[DaviddesJ]

Originally posted by DaviddesJ
Moving E to build the city looks like a good spot (assuming the flood plain under the city doesn't cause disease, but only worked tiles do).

OK, I tried a test game, and my city located on flood plains did get disease, even when I avoided working any other flood plains tiles. So I'm not so keen on building on the flood plains, after all, since it permanently increases my disease chances, for only a tempory benefit.

I don't like any of the choices. Moving the settler onto the hill could be terrible, if there's wheat to the S/SE that is then out of range. Settling in place is almost as bad, if it turns out that there's no wheat to the south, but moving would have reached some bonus grasslands or food resources to the east. So I feel I should move the worker first, to get more information.

Moving the worker onto the hill gets the most information (15 squares, plus fringes), so gives the least risk of a terrible result, but it's unlikely to be the best result, because the worker will waste a move getting to where I really want it.

Moving the worker SE gives the least information (3 squares), but it's likely to be the most important (is there wheat, and where?), and if any wheat is found, then the worker will reach it for irrigation with minimum delay. (If no wheat is found, then the settler will go up onto the hill, and I'll decide what to do the following turn.)

Moving the worker E is a compromise move, which I don't think I like as much as either of the other moves, Although it reveals more squares than SE (5 vs 3), it doesn't give information on the critical S/SW space, which is vital to the decision whether to move onto the hill.

I'm leaning toward moving the worker onto the hill. Of course, what I'll probably really do is wait until I can load the game, and get out my magnifying glass, and see if my vision/mindreading skills are any better with the true game image, without jpeg artifacts.

 

[DaviddesJ]

One last thought for tonight: looking at many random maps, the game rarely puts two different bonus/luxury resources adjacent to one another. It seems to have a built-in bias against that. So if there's incense to the S/SW, then that makes it relatively unlikely that there's wheat S/SE. So maybe just moving the settler onto the hill is ok after all.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Qitai
If we are lucky enough to have horse in the radius of the first city, that would be GREAT!!!!!

I don't think we will be that lucky; however, I believe that there will be some horses near by. Since we already got The Wheel from the beginning, I think the ICS Chariot tactic will work great in this game. For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, here is the link to that wonderful article:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20422&pagenumber=1

 

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by DaviddesJ
One last thought for tonight: looking at many random maps, the game rarely puts two different bonus/luxury resources adjacent to one another. It seems to have a built-in bias against that. So if there's incense to the S/SW, then that makes it relatively unlikely that there's wheat S/SE. So maybe just moving the settler onto the hill is ok after all.

I think this will probably be my strategy too. First move the worker SE, to confirm that it is indeed incense and not wheat around. When I am certain I won't lose any critical tiles, I'll then move my settler up on the hill ans settle there.

 

[mad-bax]

I haven't posted here yet as the discussion is so good and way above my level. But, I have to agree with Moonsinger that horses will be available pretty quick, and chariots could be the way to go. Her link is good, but I prefer this one.

I have a feeling that cracker has been waiting for someone to post this link - I might be wrong.

 

[AndrewN]

This has been a very interesting discussion, with lots to think about.

As I am new to GOTM and have never played deity before I will be going for the easy game and use some or all of the treasure chests as scouts

Even with the bonuses I fully expect to be destroyed quite quickly at this level

One thing that puzzling me is alot of people as scouring the start for bonus squares just out of range, but Cracker has already said that there are new resource icons (they are available for download). After everything he has said on the topic in other threads does anybody really think they will be visible if you haven't explored the square in question

 

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by DaviddesJ
One last thought for tonight: looking at many random maps, the game rarely puts two different bonus/luxury resources adjacent to one another. It seems to have a built-in bias against that. So if there's incense to the S/SW, then that makes it relatively unlikely that there's wheat S/SE.

I think this is a very good point ... time for more thought!

 

[vanatteveldt]

Actually, the two resources wouldn't be adjacent, but rather one square apart (see bamspeedy's post on page 3 or 4). I don't think the generator has anything against that, and remember Cracker is omnipotent and His ways are ineffable so you never know what's under that fog tile

 

[Ribannah]

That is true. Who knows, when the fog clears, we may find the entire staff standing there, laughing at us.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Ribannah
That is true. Who knows, when the fog clears, we may find the entire staff standing there, laughing at us.

They may not be starding there laughing at us, it's more probable that they will volunteer to join the rank of our workers as in GOTM17.

 

[Dislak]

I'm not sure if this is a bit off the topic, but I was playing a Deity level Spanish last night just to try and get the feel for what might happen. And after my capital hit a population of 2, it started yelling about needing entertainment and what not. I had already set luxories (sp?) up so they would be happy but it still happened. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Qitai]

What's your total trade and luxury %?

 

[AlanH]

Originally posted by Dislak
I'm not sure if this is a bit off the topic, but I was playing a Deity level Spanish last night just to try and get the feel for what might happen. And after my capital hit a population of 2, it started yelling about needing entertainment and what not. I had already set luxories (sp?) up so they would be happy but it still happened. Any thoughts on this?

If you just set entertainment to 10% before the growth turn this would not necessarily generate any real entertainment revenue. If your total gross revenue is less than 10 gpt then 10% of it is still zero.

The best time to set the entertainment slider is on the turn when your pop increases. Then you can move the slider to ensure that there are at least as many happy citizens as unhappy ones in all cities. The smiley graphics mods are very helpful when doing this with bigger populations.

Edit:

ControlFreak said the same thing at the same time as me, but much more succinctly.

Note that you need to recheck the slider if you move a garrison unit out of town. I often forget this in the heat of moving a defender to head off a marauding barb.

I...must...remember...to...check...the...sliders...at...the...end...of...every...turn

You can also hit trouble if your enemy cuts off a luxury you were relying on or if WW cuts in. But I don't imagine this was the problem at capital pop level 1 going on 2.