Gotm20-Spain Pregame Discussion

[eventhorizon]

hi there
i'm a noob here, but have been watching GotM for quite some time to gather some strategies and experiences. i think it's time for me to participate finally!

well, i'll be moving my settler up onto the hill at first.

here's the map of the visible tiles (plus what we can guess what's under the fog) (rotated 45° clockwise):
CCC??
CHPF?
FPPFP
PP*HG
DLLLG
DLLD?

F=Forrest,L=fLoodplain,P=Plains,H=Hills,G=Grassland, C=Coast

if i build the settler on the hill, i lose 1L, 1D, 1P, 1F, 1H, but in exchange i hope to get a few more grassland tiles to the north and east.
of course, if there's a bonus resource near or the hill shows a better spot, i'll change my plans...

if i do start on the hill, my worker could just as well start by roading and irrigating (maybe even mining) that starting tile... allthough, spaniards aren't industrious, that means 3 turns for the road and 6 for mining... possible not that good idea. i'll do that micromanagement calculation when the first city is settled. so a road for the starter...

as for research: i'll be hopelessly behind. i'm a lousy rusher and building strategy doesn't seem to be the solution on diety. so i guess i'll get crushed before reaching the industial ages. i havn't thought about it enough yet, if i wan't to go for pottery first, or immediatly go for a "tradeable" tech like writing or mysticism first and hope to meet an AI with pottery. looks like i'll pump out 4-5 workers in the beginning (for happiness and for discovery).
i didn't get that part with the pre-popped hut, but if we really do get the wheel and are fortunate with horses, maybe some chariots could make recon missions more efficient. can someone explain what is meant with pre-popped?

uhm... so far for speculations. i hope i'll survive long enough...

 

[AlanH]

Originally posted by Ribannah

Also, if we're the only ones with Alphabet, a 40-turn research project on Writing may be worth it, and combine nicely with the need to use the luxury slider.

That would surprise me. Rome was crucial to the early development of Spain and I would imagine Cracker will have placed them somewhere nearby. Rome gets Alphabet and Warrior Code.

I'm sure the game will include close ties to Spanish history, based on recent Cracker-isms. Take a look at the special resources.pcx icons .

 

[CdB]

Originally posted by eventhorizon
can someone explain what is meant with pre-popped?

As stated in by Cracker in http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm20_start_v1_29.shtml

Goody Hut locations for this map game were randomly generated by the Civ3 map generator and then pre-evaluated in an attempt to eliminate that random variable difference between games of different players who other wise play similar games.

The Goody Hut benefits for you as the Human player included one additional technology that we have assigned to be "The Wheel" as well as 25 additional gold units for your treasury. (Players in the Predator Class game do not begin with these two hut benefits.) Note that pre-assignment of these benefits is not meant to imply that it will or will not be important for you to explore your surroundings on the map. These will still be decisions that you will need to make in order to succeed at this game.

In short, it is a mitigation to limit the random effect of the set-up.

 

[jack merchant]

Prepoppedd - apparently there were 2 huts near the start, the outcomes of which are given to you to facilitate comparison. If someone gets a settler, he'll have it all that much easier than someone who popped barbs.

I don't generally pop huts as a non-expansionist civ myself, since the reward is usually barbs and if you lose your scouting warrior, you run the risk of missing out on contacts and consequently falling further behind in tech.

I'm as yet unsure of my plans - I may avoid the early granary if there's a neighbour relatively close by, build only 4-5 cities and take all the other cities by force. I hope the 'home' continent is more crowded than the 'new world' continent(s) as I intend to play the Predator class, and if the other continent develops too fast you run the risk of having to slog through Mech Infs and radar towers to conquer them.

 

[DaveMcW]

Originally posted by Ribannah
With floodplains there is always a decent chance of finding some wheat. Since the first move is almost free (it takes the Worker to 3750 BC to irrigate one of them), I'm inclined to move 1 tile southeast, which keeps the potential grasslands within the radius.

The costs/benefits of the first moves:

1. Worker irrigates flood plain, Settler builds at the start.
3500BC: 2 pop, 1 warrior, 6 food, 2 shields

2. Worker explores the hill and then irrigates flood plain, Settler builds at the start.
3500BC: 2 pop, 1 warrior, 3 food, 1 shield

3. Worker irrigates flood plain, Settler moves one square.
3500BC: 2 pop, 1 warrior, 3 food, 1 shield

4. Worker explores the hill and then irrigates flood plain, Settler moves one square.
3500BC: 2 pop, 1 warrior, 3 food, 1 shield

So if you want to move your worker or settler, you might as well move them both! 3 food and 1 shield is a small amount to gamble on finding better tiles, so I expect lots of people to be moving.


My opening sequence will be:

Move the worker onto the hill.
If a food or shield bonus is found, move the setter towards the bonus resource.
If no bonus is found, move the settler south. There are 9 new squares to the south that are not visible from the hill, so between them and the hill there must be at least one bonus!

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by CdB
Just a question from a non expert gamer. Why do you prefer cities on hills? You do not benefit of the mining facility later in the game

As a former dairy farmer, hill, mountain, and tundra are usless to me. Such mining facility would devastate my cows. My prioprity has always been to reserve as much food as possible for future growth. Of course, the defensive bonus of the hill may come in handy too.

 

[Renata]

Originally posted by Shillen
Uhmm, I must have an exceptional monitor. I didn't even need to blow the picture up and I can clearly see wheat two tiles south of the start position.

Are you sure? My work monitor is pretty good (didn't have any trouble seeing the problems with the resource graphics, for instance), but all I see is the gridline intersection.

Renata

 

[Qitai]

Good Analysis Dave. I was wondering about that statement as well since my simple calculation on moving worker to irrigate immediately gets the exact 20 food on turn 8. Was lazy to do the rest and am glad that someone has done the work =)

 

[Ribannah]

It doesn't seem to be quite correct though. You don't get access to the Forest until the capital expands, so you only get that Warrior in 3500 BC if you move the Worker onto the hill first.

Also, if you go irrigating immediately, and don't build a road, you can get to +4 food in 3550 BC, and repeat for +5 food 5 turns later. Or, you can have a Worker built in 3550 BC.

Alternatively, you might want to go fo more shields, and start irrigating the plains of the starting tile to grow slower but make a Settler faster.

So moving the Worker costs, too.

Of course everything changes once we find that special.

Edit: Wait, I forgot about the bug in PTW that demands a +3 food in the capital when it grows, so you don't get to use a plains tile in 3550 BC. So if you're playing PTW you can't get the Warrior or Worker in 3550 BC anyway.

 

[cracker]

Originally posted by Ribannah
Which resources_shadows.pcx file is to go with the blips only graphics?

You may use any of the existing shadows files in this set and they will all match up. The shadows file increases the completeness and contrast of the images giving them more of a 3D appearance. It can really help to make them easier to see against many background terrain images particularly if the contrast between the bare icon and the terrain color is less intense.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Yes, I think it is wheat down there to the SSW.

I think I may send my worker there to check it out.
Edit: It is incense, NOT wheat.

 

[Dynamic]

Hello!
This is my first post on the forum.
I made the test map with a wheat on tiles SE,SE and S,SE. I think on the tile SE,SE must be the wheat.

 

[Ebomb808]

If that is a wheat S SW, then would that elminate the thinking of settling on the hill, i think i would want to settle at the start and include the wheat and keep the shields of the hill as well.

 

[Shillen]

Sorry, that's what I get for looking at the picture at 4am. I just woke up from a long sleep and there's no wheat there. At least on the tile I mentioned. I don't know about what Bamspeedy's pointing at. Phew at least now I know my monitor won't be banned.

 

[Ribannah]

I don't see it.

And I thought we were not suppused to see a Wheat under the fog anymore?

But I was planning on moving the Worker south anyway for the best possible view. If there is wheat s/sw, I' ll probably want to settle in the starting position anyway (keeping the grasslands in the radius), and moving the Worker first keeps that option.

 

[Dynamic]

This is original and test screenshot with the wheats.

 

[Ebomb808]

What about a test screenshot without wheat? To see the difference if any?

 

[Bamspeedy]

Ok, here is my guesses at the surrounding terrain.
It may be best to stay at the start and get everything upon culture border expansion.

I'm positive that is wheat to the SW. To the SE, I think that also is wheat, but 2-3 tiny pixels is hard to say for sure. What is to the northeast is the only real question. Bonus grassland, regular grassland, or the base of a mountain/hill?

Edit: There is NOT wheat to the SW, but incense. I will probably move my worker east.

 

[Dynamic]

Originally posted by Bamspeedy
I'm positive that is wheat to the SW...

Why do you think about wheat to the SW? I made the test shot and it is not like the original.

 

[scubagtr]

I personally love the starting location. I absolutely love Flood Plains !!! I can't get enough of them !!!![dance] Desert tiles suck, but run a river through them, then you've got something.

So you get a little disease. It's rare and besides, if my people die becasue of a little cold, then they aren't helping me much anyway. I only need the strong people that want to live and be one of the mighty Spainards.

Mega food can be a very powerful tool in the right hands.

I think I will forgo the Conquest level and go with the Open Class. Just in case i actually do well, I would hate to have those extra bonuses hanging over my head.

Besides, I have been playing a Diety - Spanish game on Continents on a standard map (just a lucky guess on my part) for the past 2 weeks now and I am actually #3 out of the 8. Even though I probably won't catch the leaders, I am doing fairly well for myself and having fun. I figured I would be wiped out eary, but I had to do it sometime.

Some hints I learned, however take them with a grain of salt, since I have not actually won a GOTM yet:

1 - I stayed away from early war. I actually never went to war until 1530 when France attacked me, but by then I was pretty powerful and elimated the threat.

2 - When at war - get everyone bordering your enemy to fight them.

3 - Use the slider bar early. Possibly turn on the govenor to manage moods, becase people get unhappy fast.

4 - I explored a little, just enough to see where my neighbors were and where I needed to put my next cities.

5 - I did do a little sailing to a dark spot on the map and discovered another continent. Very valauble trading Communications.

6 - My main priority on city placement is to get the LUXs. These are extremely important. The more you get the better, even if they are the same one. But get different ones, if you have to make a choice.

7 - Build your cities closer together than you might normally. Normally, meaning, like me, who doesn't usually overlap grids.

8 - Please feel free to add some more tips or point out how wrong my thoughts are. All comments are welcomed.

9 - My favorite fighting units are Cavs with artillery. You can usually fight any of the advanced civs with them, even if they have tanks.

10 - As for my start, it looks good to me right where it is.