Gotm22-Vikings PreGame Discussion

Originally posted by Zwingli

The leader will float in the water unharmed until an empty galley comes by to pick him up. I don't know if the leader would be vulnearable to squids or enemies, but this was the basis of a "Screenshot of the Day".
Thanks Zwingli ! I found it - screen shot #74.

Well now, floating Leaders is a far nuttier solution to a logical problem than even this loopy Peanut could dream of ! I take my shell off in salute to those Firaxis wizards ... but what happened to "Sid's magic teleporter" that sends unwanted troops whizzing half way across the map ? Couldn't that be invoked ?

And besides - the thought of those squids sneaking up on my poor Bjorn Peanuttson while he is standing and patiently waiting for the next boat home ... oooh ... his cold wet toes will be curling up in dread in his sodden boots as he nervously scans the horizon ...

Can't wait to try it out 'though.
 
Arrrrr, Bjorn, being a great leader, ought to demand more respect. When he arrives on the scene, he'll ask Erik (or was it Lars who attacked?) to -Wake Transported-. Lars, or Erik, in awe, stepps into the drink, and Bjorn takes a seat. Bjorn and Lars, or Eric, share a good laugh at Lars', or Eriks', expense as they sail off toward home. If Lars attacks first, but Erik is the valiant one to spawn Bjorn, you'll have to wait until next turn until the spent Lars and Erik can be -waked- and Bjorn can take his place. I say Lars stays behind, since Erik spawned Bjorn, unless it's the other way around...
 
What I'm wondering is, how many Wonders can you miss and still win by 20K? If I don't get the Great Library and a couple others, say the Hanging Gardens or Colossus, then at what point does one give up on that strategy and move on to another victory condition?
 
Originally posted by LKendter



From the page http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm22_features.shtml


Open Class Starting Bonuses:

Free Warrior from Hut: Vagn Ákason
Total Starting Cash in Treasury: 35 units of gold

Ah, thanks. I missed that... :blush:

This means I'll have 2 units to do some exploring. Because it's a 66% water archipelago map, I think our starting landmass won't be very big. So I'll probably build just 2 or 3 more scouts and after that focus on expansion, instead of my usual 8-10 scouts when playing expansionist.
 
Originally posted by scubagtr
What I'm wondering is, how many Wonders can you miss and still win by 20K? If I don't get the Great Library and a couple others, say the Hanging Gardens or Colossus, then at what point does one give up on that strategy and move on to another victory condition?

If it is a single city 20k you probably need 2 or 3 of the ancient wonders, different if you go for 100k where you can have lots and lots of cities with minor culture improvment features.

Colossus > TGL > Hanging Gardens would be recommended.

If you fail to get one you have to do some math trying to figure out if you can somehow make up the culture loss. If you let it go until the 2000's you double all your points again ... but then going that long on this demi-deity level (or whatever the name was) is probably not an option.


Last time I went for 20k was the GOTM france. But I was such a nice ruler I forgot to whip up some early building instead just building them by hand taking the time it took. So it took a while to get there. But the game was fast since it was an OCC.
 
I think flex0 is right. Add the Oracle to the list, even though I doubt that all those wonders can be built at so high a difficulty level without a lot of luck with Great Leaders.

In fact, the more wonders you secure in the early game the fastest your finish.
I would try to go for the wonders that flex0 mentioned, plus try to grab the 'best' ones of the Middle Ages by 500 - 700 AD. That should put you into a reasonably good position.

If you let it go too long you will have to follow Yndy's strategy to prevent the AI from launching the SS. At that point, you only need to reach 20k before 2050.
 
Originally posted by Karasu


If you let it go too long you will have to follow Yndy's strategy to prevent the AI from launching the SS. At that point, you only need to reach 20k before 2050.

I thought my strategy of waiting until I was one turn from defeat and then panicking was fairly optimal :rolleyes:

You can do it with only the Oracle and GL from the ancient age so a coast city is not *required*.
 
Originally posted by mad-bax
I thought my strategy of waiting until I was one turn from defeat and then panicking was fairly optimal :rolleyes:
It did make for amusing reading in the spoilers :).

Originally posted by mad-bax
You can do it with only the Oracle and GL from the ancient age so a coast city is not *required*.
Bear in mind this is demi-god or whatever, so the AI's tech pace will be higher, so they will reach UN/Space much earlier.
 
OK, so if I miss the Great Lib and the Oracle then everyone dies and I will attempt to swarm the world with my mighty Bezerkers.:die:
 
Originally posted by mad-bax


I thought my strategy of waiting until I was one turn from defeat and then panicking was fairly optimal :rolleyes:

Hhhmm... Looks like you had an interesting game there.
I should be finishing mine tonight (hopefully), so I'll finally be able to read the last spoilers!
 
Dianthus: What you say is true, but I missed a lot of middle age wonders because I turned off research when I had the Great library. I wouldn't make that mistake again. Also I would make more of an effort to keep the AI bankrupt and warring with each other.

But in essence you are completely right, the danger of 20K is StupidSpaceShip (TM) launch. Trust me. :)

BTW I would prefer people to read my spoiler notes for their razor sharp insight, technical brilliance and imaginative gameplay concepts, not just as a source of amusement. ;)
 
BTW I would prefer people to read my spoiler notes for their razor sharp insight, technical brilliance and imaginative gameplay concepts, not just as a source of amusement.

:) Wouldn't we all. But seriously I think I learn as much if not more from the posts of players who have had a hard time in the GoTM than those of players who have coasted it. The Great Library pitfall that you have pointed out is good example of this- which I'll be trying hard to avoid if I go for 20k.
 
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." — George Santayana

Everytime I read of someone else's failure, or experience a failure myself, I try to learn from it. Mad-bax your write-ups help those of us who want to learn.
 
The skill level represented here is daunting, almost depressing :( I regularly play SP games at Regent or Monarch. I get killed on anything past Monarch.

The first GOTM I tried playing was the Celts. I tried playing like a regular random game and got slaughtered. I've played the rest since and won them all, though I played Spain at Conquest level.

Now everyone here is discuusing how to win a 20k game at demi-god level. I've never won a 20k game at ANY difficulty level.

I play Civ3 because of the ebb and flow of history it represents. I don't have the mathmatical precision needed for high scores and to win on high levels.

I'm not saying I haven't gotten to be a better player by playing GOTM (I have, especially at trading), but I don't see myself ever leaving the minor leagues. :cry:

I'll be playing the Vikings at Conquest level this month :(
 
Originally posted by ltccone
Now everyone here is discuusing how to win a 20k game at demi-god level. I've never won a 20k game at ANY difficulty level.
I know for a fact that a number of posters here haven't won a 20k game at ANY difficulty level either. (1 is a number, and I for 1 haven't :))
 
Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
Everytime I read of someone else's failure, or experience a failure myself, I try to learn from it.

Followed by a bit of irony...:eek:

Originally posted in Sir Bugsy's signature
"You need to decide whether you want to be married to me, or play that stupid game!" - Bugsy's Wife

Raise your hand if you too are now single again after Civ's release? me-> :wavey:

Convert her, she wants to be a Civfanatic!! :devil2:
 
Originally posted by Dianthus

I know for a fact that a number of posters here haven't won a 20k game at ANY difficulty level either. (1 is a number, and I for 1 haven't :))
To me the hardest part of a 20K victory is patience.

Unless I am doing a OCC, I almost always have a chance to win the game before I hit 20K. The hard part is to pass up the other victory and wait for your 20K.
 
If I told my wife everything re. Civ Fanatics she would be very much opposed to me playing the game. it is enough trying to tell her that using WinXP "fast user changes" will disrupt the diplo screen "lines". So each time I discover her having used the computer when Civ3 is active I have to reload the game to get the diplo screens to work. telling her to defer, is not an option ;)
 
This could be a tough game, especially for the 20K goal!

I have few fixed plans at this point. Much depends on how the game unfolds. Particularly important is the question of whether we're isolated or not.

It sure would be nice to find some bonuses in the starting area. I'll start by moving my scout N, and then almost certainly NW to the mountain. (I've picked north for the scout both because of the number of tiles which will be exposed and because north seems most promising for contact with another Civ.) After moving the scout all depends on what's seen, I'm not making fixed plans beyond that, there are too many possibilities to worry about them ahead of time.

Initial research: Our starting techs aren't very useful for starting with 40 turn research - we can't start working on a deep tech. If we're not alone then France and England are fairly likely neighbors and they'd have Alphabet right away. But if we are alone, starting with Alphabet (heading for Map Making) could be a priority.

There's another important factor affecting the research choice. If going for 20K, note that our starting techs don't enable any large scale prebuilding of wonders! This isn't often a factor in a game but Masonry is required to build Palace. If not using the capital as the 20K city, the ability to prebuild via Palace is desirable.

I figure the research decision is best made on the assumption we're alone. (If we're not then early research on anything is likely to be wasted and not matter.) I'm going to start by researching Masonry at 100%. If we're alone I want to be able to prebuild Palace in a 20K city before I could get through the Alphabet->Writing->MapMaking (or ->Literature) sequence. (Note: there's a small chance I'll change my mind on even this during the opening moves - perhaps the capital location will seem ideal for the 20K city. But low odds on this for me.)

Initial build sequence: I don't have a firm plan, it depends on what becomes visible in the first few turns. If it looks like we're in a very limited land area I may not even build a second scout. I may want a granary before the first settler. But an early warrior or two is likely to be important for barbarian control (less so if there are neighbors helping to patrol.) And I won't want to delay the first settler for long after growing to size three. My most likely build sequence is a few units (mix of warriors and scouts) then settler.

About early wonders: I think that with these map settings, the chance of getting the earliest wonders is low. An OCC might have a better chance at one of the first wonders though it will have a hard time later on. A multiple city game will want to pump at least one settler from the capital first. After doing that, getting an early wonder such as Colossus seems unlikely to me. And quite unlikely for Predators.

About Berserks: It seems to me that these guys are overpriced. But they could be very useful if the map creates a particular kind of opportunity: they can sometimes effectively be a three or four tile attack unit. Three for the boat carrying them, then wake them up and move another tile in the attack. If there are opportunities for this, the changed naval movement will add an interesting twist :) Berserks could also end up being good timing for a Golden Age.

I'm planning to start by shooting for the 20K goal. It could be a very difficult one on this map. I may change my mind about the goal during the game :)
 
The conventional wisdom seems to be that we will be on a small continent or large island. Perhaps with a couple of other civs, but maybe alone. The Open Class will be playing above Emperor, which means that we won't be able to research much before the AI. It's great to plan to build 2 or 3 Wonders, but that usually is not possibly at this level. I think we have to assume that we will be behind for quiet some time in this game. That will especially be the case if we are alone on an island where we can't buy techs from other civs until we research Map Making or are fortuitously "discovered" by another civ.
 
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