solenoozerec
Stranger
Durkz said:
You could substitute the sheep mountain with a mined bg. Then it will be close. Otherwise you cannot compare because this tile is the best one from the very first turn.
GOTM43 - Pre-Game Discussion.
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
You could substitute the sheep mountain with a mined bg. Then it will be close. Otherwise you cannot compare because this tile is the best one from the very first turn.
Xerol
Emperor
Wined hill could also work there, and would probably be closer to the actual situation(in terms of worker-turns). Only other difference in this case would be the extra Wines.
solenoozerec
Stranger
Xerol said:
Also -1 shield and +1 gold.
In order to make a hill like a sheep mountain, you need to put a bonus of +1 food and +1 sheild. I do not know if editor allows puting whales on hills (and if it does you'll get extra gold), but cow will work to under despotism.
I do not think that there is a good substitute for mined bg.
As for worker-turns, just do not work this tile.
The editor allows to change the bonuses of resources. So if you don't want to use mad-bax scenario files , you can just change gold to be +2f +1s 0g and put a gold on the mountain.
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
Durkz said:
Are you sure? Usually it doesn't show in the Start Menu, but the Civ3XEdit.exe is availble in the CIV3PTW directory.
2000warrior
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2004
- Messages
- 21
Redbad: I also tested that pic against a similar startup with a definite wheat on that tile 2S, 1E of starting location.
From what I can tell, the only reason why we cannot be certain if it does or doesn't contain a wheat on it is the compression used for the posted image making the supposed wheat a bit blurry. It should be much easier to tell once you load up the game in full screen.
I will definitely head towards it if it still looks like a wheat once I load up the game. Moving S should not affect the startup too much since I doubt anyone can figure out a way to get 2 chops out of that start without poping out a worker and slowing down the granery production (and I am also leaving slaves out as a possibility since there's no foundation for assuming that you'll get them). And with an fp wheat, you only need one citizen working on a tile without sheilds instead of 3, so less bg mines are needed.
From what I can tell, the only reason why we cannot be certain if it does or doesn't contain a wheat on it is the compression used for the posted image making the supposed wheat a bit blurry. It should be much easier to tell once you load up the game in full screen.
I will definitely head towards it if it still looks like a wheat once I load up the game. Moving S should not affect the startup too much since I doubt anyone can figure out a way to get 2 chops out of that start without poping out a worker and slowing down the granery production (and I am also leaving slaves out as a possibility since there's no foundation for assuming that you'll get them). And with an fp wheat, you only need one citizen working on a tile without sheilds instead of 3, so less bg mines are needed.
Redbad
should have shaved
@2000warrior
It's a real dilemma.
I studied the starting position over and over. In my plans there are 2 good openings:
If there is wheat, I'll settle 2SE. This position makes a nice 4-turn settlerfactory possible using the irrigated fp-wheat, 2 mined bg and the goat-mountain.
When there's no wheat: I'll settle in place and make a 6-turn settlerfactory with 2 irrigated wines, 2 mined bg and goatmountain.
The Kuningas-variant is to elaborate to my taste and requires too high a population in Kyoto.
Settling one S is a compromise with strong disadvantages:
it looses out on the N bg and wine, I uses up a strong tile and if there is a wheat irrigating/roading it requires 2 times crossing unimproved tiles which looses a couple of workerturns.
I will most likely go for one of two opening I mentioned. I don't yet which one but I haven't finished studying it. Either way I will blame myself for chosing the wrong variant if that situation should occur.
It's a real dilemma.
I studied the starting position over and over. In my plans there are 2 good openings:
If there is wheat, I'll settle 2SE. This position makes a nice 4-turn settlerfactory possible using the irrigated fp-wheat, 2 mined bg and the goat-mountain.
When there's no wheat: I'll settle in place and make a 6-turn settlerfactory with 2 irrigated wines, 2 mined bg and goatmountain.
The Kuningas-variant is to elaborate to my taste and requires too high a population in Kyoto.
Settling one S is a compromise with strong disadvantages:
it looses out on the N bg and wine, I uses up a strong tile and if there is a wheat irrigating/roading it requires 2 times crossing unimproved tiles which looses a couple of workerturns.
I will most likely go for one of two opening I mentioned. I don't yet which one but I haven't finished studying it. Either way I will blame myself for chosing the wrong variant if that situation should occur.
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
Redbad said:
Perhaps, but chances are you will be obliterated in 3100 BC anyway by a stack of seven Korean warriors just blundering by.
akots
Poet
So, is there wheat or not?
denyd
Emperor
I think I might sit this one out. While it looks like fun and a nice challenge, I've been neglecting my HOF efforts lately and I'll have a full week of open evenings with my wife & son at the in-laws to get in a couple of games.
I'll probably download the save and play the quick start period (to 1000BC) just to get a feel for it, but if things start looking like it'll take a lot of time to pull out a win, I'll move on to easier pastures.
And just to chip in my 2 cents, I'll probably settle in place. The surrounding luxuries, bonuses and being on a river is enough to make it a good spot. A lost turn or 2 of research, production & exploration on diety can be fatal.
I'll probably download the save and play the quick start period (to 1000BC) just to get a feel for it, but if things start looking like it'll take a lot of time to pull out a win, I'll move on to easier pastures.
And just to chip in my 2 cents, I'll probably settle in place. The surrounding luxuries, bonuses and being on a river is enough to make it a good spot. A lost turn or 2 of research, production & exploration on diety can be fatal.
Redbad
should have shaved
Più Freddo said:
But then again, Piu, wouldn't you prefer dying knowing you made the right choice, then dying knowing you screwed it all up?
akots said:
When we download the save, perhaps 2000warrior knows. But he will not be allowed to post the answer. But for us non-foggazing mortals, may the force be with us (and some luck
)
eldar
ChiefTank
I'm definitely settling in place. 2 turns at this difficulty with a "crowded" start? No thanks. That's potentially 4 tiles closer to a few adventurous warriors!
@Solenoozerec: You're right, the political situation is hard to predict. I guess I feel certain things are almost a given in a Deity game, since it is designed with being winnable in mind. For example, I predict:
-The other continent will be reachable with galleys, early in the game. If I'm wrong, send me a nasty PM.
-With all these AI switched over to expansionist, it'd be silly for us to be alone. They'll get lots of huts and tease us with their science lead.
-The start is a worker's paradise. Why mod in all those wines if there is no one nearby to trade with?
-There will be a 'runt AI' nearby. I mean, in the monarch games, we're faced with a desert start fighting opponents who begin in the Elysian Fields. On a Deity game, I'm expecting the opposite.
-Another reason to believe in 'runt AI': how the heck else does Mad Bax expect us to keep up in science? Runt or not, they'll still get way ahead in tech. Give an AI a whack and we can catch up. Not the only way to win, but the most obvious to me.
So anyway, I hope this doesn't sound defensive. If basing your strategy on faith in runt AI is not your style, I totally understand. These are just my thoughts. And of course, all my comments in the pregame should be taken with a grain of salt- I am usually proven to be full of it!
-The other continent will be reachable with galleys, early in the game. If I'm wrong, send me a nasty PM.
-With all these AI switched over to expansionist, it'd be silly for us to be alone. They'll get lots of huts and tease us with their science lead.
-The start is a worker's paradise. Why mod in all those wines if there is no one nearby to trade with?
-There will be a 'runt AI' nearby. I mean, in the monarch games, we're faced with a desert start fighting opponents who begin in the Elysian Fields. On a Deity game, I'm expecting the opposite.
-Another reason to believe in 'runt AI': how the heck else does Mad Bax expect us to keep up in science? Runt or not, they'll still get way ahead in tech. Give an AI a whack and we can catch up. Not the only way to win, but the most obvious to me.
So anyway, I hope this doesn't sound defensive. If basing your strategy on faith in runt AI is not your style, I totally understand. These are just my thoughts. And of course, all my comments in the pregame should be taken with a grain of salt- I am usually proven to be full of it!
solenoozerec
Stranger
Redbad said:But for us non-foggazing mortals, may the force be with us (and some luck
Yes, I wouldn't count on that wheat. Even if it is there, I am not sure that a fast settler factory will be very important (I suspect that we won't have much space to explore by the time we make it).
I think that the most important issues will be techs and production. I also think that I will go towards Monarchy in this game, because I am afraid that at some point we will need a lot of military having a few cities.
And I agree with Jove, that it is very unlikely that wines are giving to us without a purpose, so I will definitely settle at 4000BC and will not look back.
I also decided to alter my previous plans regarding a worker:
On the first turn he will go north. He will be mining and roading bg for a second citizen. Then he might go chopping a forest and this is why on the first turn he will move to northern bg, not southeastern.
My first warrior also will go north, my second warrior will go south and then I probably will start a granary, if I mange to trade pottery by that time. Otherwise, I will build third warrior.
I will research Mysticism on max (in hope that we will have a little chance to get there before AI).
A slightly more than one day left to think about it.
Well, settling in place can give you a fairly easy 5-turn factory with some MMing (though some might be an understatementRedbad said:
), without having to mine the goats.I'll settle in place, if there's Wheat down south then I'll praise the gods (eh, m-b) and use it for a worker farm.
ionimplant
Prince
what's the age of the map? 3,4 or 5 billion? or it doesn't matter?
Redbad
should have shaved
I have abandonned the idea of moving the settler towards any wheat. I will settle in place. I have derived an openingssequence that gets a 6-turn settler factory running at turn 32. It has by then allready poduced 1 settler. So it will in all produce 1 + ( (80 - 32) / 6) = 9 settlers by the year 1000BC. If it doesn't get disturbed, that is. I have included the spreadsheet.
Redbads openingssequence
In the opening there's also an temple build. I put that in incase Kyoto will indeed go for 20K as I now intend.
Edit
Upon checkng I see I've made two mistakes in my spreadsheet:
4000BC worker move is N and not NE
2430BC worker move is SW-S-SE and not SE-S-SE
Redbads openingssequence
In the opening there's also an temple build. I put that in incase Kyoto will indeed go for 20K as I now intend.
Edit
Upon checkng I see I've made two mistakes in my spreadsheet:
4000BC worker move is N and not NE
2430BC worker move is SW-S-SE and not SE-S-SE
ionimplant
Prince
i had a similar plan but after i played a test game, i want to try a different win other than 20k... i just didn't stand any chance to get any wonder. i didn't try since i guess leader farming will be a better way. but it's almost impossible to get ready for that unless there's some choke point or some easy diplomacy with allies. i guess the culture city can get at most 1 AA wonder.. but since the real gotm deity should always be a little easier than random deity game, i might leave the winning option open till i start the game.Redbad said:
Xerol
Emperor
I'm going to try to time it for a 2040's 20k victory. I should be able to do this even with only one AA wonder. The BEST plan seems to be 1) Get 2 settlers out, and set up some combo factories in those cities, 2) Start on GL prebuild as soon as possible(either Pyramids or Oracle), and 3) Shoot straight for Literature. The 6 -> 12 cpt of the library should be enough to get 20k in the 21st century if I get enough leaders in the Middle/Industrial ages. (This all, of course, is assuming that I haven't grabbed Diplo in GOTM 42.)
