GOTM43 - Pre-Game Discussion.

[Xerol]

Also remember the Samurai don't require horses - kind of ironic since you're able to see them from the start, and the only reason I can see going after them is to deny them to the AI.

My test game I didn't get as quite a good start, and I couldn't fit 10 opponents on a Standard continents map. But I played through the AA anyway. I managed to get 4 good cities out before I was boxed in; I set it up as 70% Water Continents and drew 7 opponents on my landmass, meaning there's an empty continent out there somewhere, and it WAS a very crowded start. (Note: I did settle a large desert to the SE of my capital with 3 other cities, which spent most of the AA building 10- or 7-turn catapaults.) I had China north, Persia east, England southeast, India southwest(water was due south), and Germany northwest. Zulu were farther southeast, past Persia, and Babylon was north of Germany/China. China only had 6 cities from the start, and Babylon about 10. China and Germany teamed up on Babylon from the time Iron was out, and I sent about a dozen swords up there(mostly upgraded warriors). Razed one city, captured another, and settled two towns(one within Babylon's 1000+ border). Got peace for all 3 available middle age techs(mono, feudalism, and engineering) plus a distant island town; Babylon is the only city remaining on the mainland but I didn't have any coastal cities to get the 3 sitting on nearby islands. Germany got two, China got none and was also subsequently run over by German Cavalry, this was in 10BC by the way. (I, on the other hand, had just switched to Monarchy and was 40-turning chivalry. I still didn't have republic, but WW would've killed me at this stage.) Germany was tech leader by far, although apparently they went straight for MT(something I've never seen happen) since I recently got UP on them by Theology and traded it for Invention + GPT. (This is wierd in itself; I've NEVER seen the AI ignore the top half of the MA tech tree.) Meanwhile someone trades Education to the English and their GL is obsolete, but that doesn't mean it's useless to me. Right now I'm 4 turns from Chivalry, have a Chinese Iron hooked up, and Granary/Library prebuilds in every city so I'll have between 6-7 sams within 2 turns of getting the tech. England had a few desert cities taken by Persia meaning with a Persian RoP I can be on the GL's front stairs in a couple of turns, and hopefully Germany will do some trading and I can get MT for free. England's in bad shape; no Iron or Horses and they're stuck with spears. I'm 5th biggest out of 7 remaining Civs(China's gone; Babs and England are down to 3 each). But I didn't manage to grab one wonder, mostly because of (1) noncoastal start and (2) I've been building military, temples, and barracks the whole game. I probably could've taken 2 more Chinese cities if I had Medieval Swordsmen available, but I'm stuck with vanilla, so no dice there.


As far as the extra defence point goes: I think it'll be great - AI Knights will just bounce off of them, and you won't have to build escorts or bring in defensive units from your core when conquering.

 

[shortguy]

I'm ready for this one! Unfortunately, I didn't have time to finish GOTM 37, but I managed to make the Modern Age (though I was probably about to lose a space race). For my first real deity attempt, it went pretty well. Of course, the Japanese certainly aren't the Iroquois...

One question for seasoned deity players out there. Should I do min research or self research? Last time I stuck with min research. I managed to more-or-less catch up in the middle of the industrial ages, but they began to pull away at the beginning of the modern ages and the amount of cash I was shelling out (for techs and oil) severely hampered my military in the modern ages. Also, as I didn't build libraries and universities (less upkeep = more income), turning over to self research really wasn't possible, as tech would take far too long (15-20 turns) and that reduced my income, making me even less able to buy techs.

So, what would you recommend?

 

[solenoozerec]

I bet SirPleb, if he has seen this, is salivating at the opportunity to win pre IA.

If I will not win this game pre IA, I certainly will loose it. I will try to avoid researching after chivalry in hope that we do not need navigation.
Under circumstances, I will research Military tradition, but I do not see a reason to enter IA.
As for SirPleb, I fear that he is skipping this game which is, of course, pity.

 

[solenoozerec]

Also remember the Samurai don't require horses - kind of ironic since you're able to see them from the start,

You are right, I did not notice that. What a wicked UU. You can built chariots and eventualy upgrade them to samurais' after loosing your horses to AI :brrr:

 

[Obormot]

I haven't played vanilla for ages, but maybe i'll try this one out.
Sounds like an interesting game: i like playing on high difficulty levels.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Sir Pleb, are you gonna play this, and if so, what victory condition will you go for ?

 

[Più Freddo]

As for SirPleb, I fear that he is skipping this game which is, of course, pity.

But hendrikzoon'll play it instead.

 

[Renata]

Samurai are sort of fun to use with cavalry, oddly enough. They work as fast defensive units that can actually keep up with the offensive if you plan well. And once the enemy is gassed, they pick off longbows and such nearly as well as cavs do.

Renata

 

[Paul#42]

But hendrikzoon'll play it instead.

No: hendrikszoon just plays Cotms.

Even if he played Gotm43, I guess hendrikszoon won't make too many comments on his game here

 

[leopalas]

Hi,

Could someone point me out a thread or a post on how to recreate this starting position using the editor (even if without the mediterranean resources). Can i use the Conquests editor and still recreate PTW rules? Thanks in advance.

 

[mad-bax]

Hi leopalas: yes you can, and with the resources too.

Just visit the SGOTM Reference Thread and in post 3 (IIRC) you will find the bic/bix/biq and a test save for the installation. Follow the instructions to install the version of your choice and open the scenario with the editor.

If you choose to install the vanilla or the PTW version then you will also be set up to play GOTM43.

If you have any problems just give me a shout.

 

[DaveMcW]

The PTW editor is included with Conquests, look in your "Civilization 3\PTW" folder.

 

[Markus5]

I played a couple of test games, just to limber up.

There were only 8 Civs, and I played monarch level.

In the first, I was slowly cranking out warriors for explorers and MPs, settlers and workers. The Mongols walked up with 3 warriors and destroyed me.

In the second, I had a better start. I started with 4 warriors and they headed the same general direction. The first one met the Mongols (again) and traded nicely with them. The other 3 warriors caught up, and I took their city. I got 3 workers. 2 warriors were set as MPs and the other 2 walked about popping goody huts and dispursing barb camps for tech and gold. I settled the early war for more techs and lots of gold. Iron was right on top of me, and soon I was building swords and started warring with the Mongols again. My line of cities cut the continent in half and nothing would get through. About that time I quit. I had 8 cities, twice as many as any other AI.

The earlier warrior rush might kill you, and it might help you.

 

[leopalas]

Thx a lot guys

 

[eldar]

I'll be re-creating the starting location and trying this as Deity. Should be able to mod the .bix to allow 11 civs as well. Should keep me busy for 15 minutes or so before I get overrun by Chinese and German Archers

 

[Megalou]

I think everyone is at risk of losing a Diety game. But it's also quite possible for a lot of people to win given a nice starting area.

Amen, that's what's fun about it. To show that I mean that, I'll play predator.

Should I do min research or self research?

I think it's better to hang on by the skin of your teeth, trying for some of those techs that the AI don't like to research (as mentioned earlier). Although after chivalry or after Military tradition, I will probably do some minimum research to afford upgrades. If those yummie upgraded units do their job I should be able to get by force one or two of those techs I didn't research.

As for the starting position, lots of wise things have already been said. Mining the goat should not deter anyone. It's not like it's such hard work for the workers that you can't use them for other tasks later.

 

[Xerol]

As far as self-research goes, Polytheism is a good one to try for(even at 40 turns I got it first in 2 of 3 test games). If you can get to the Middle Ages at a reasonable time(within 10 turns of the first AI is usually good enough), Engineering is also a good choice if you can do it in <25 turns. I traded Poly for Code of Laws, Philosophy, Construction, plus many GPT and lump sum deals, and then cash bought Currency to finish out the AA. Engineering can almost always net you Feudalism + Monotheism, and perhaps Theology or Chivalry if the AIs get that far. (They usually get Feudalism, Monotheism, Theology, and Chivalry before even considering Engineering, so this works out often.)

 

[Jove]

@Solenoozerec: Well, I don't really mean to go 'all or nothing' with these guys. On Deity, that usually works out as nothing. What I'm hoping for is the AI fighting themselves on their own. Say one of our neighbors gets cut in half, from 8 to 4 cities or whatever, fighting other AI. They're vulnerable, and taking even one or two of their cities can result in a juicy peace deal, not to mention a little land, maybe a nice FP location... That's the kind of thing I'm looking for. It's like being the crow that steals a bite from the lion's kill.
OR, we may get lucky and have a 'runt AI' for a neighbor that just didn't grow for some reason. I'd go after that guy. I wouldn't pick on someone my own size in the AA.

 

[Markus5]

On deity, do the AIs get additional starting units? They get an extra settler and great unit support, and trade advantages. What else?

Or, am I mis-remembering again?

 

[eldar]

I'm thinking of COTM7 in particular with this "crowded" start.

My personal experience was a matter of biding my time whilst AIs trampled all over my territory to fight Germany, then walking into the weakened Germans' territory and crippling them.

Of course, a nearby neighbour that doesn't start with Bronze Working or Warrior Code might be ripe for an early Archer rush. Hence the decision to strip some AIs of their Scientific trait could prove critical (as long as the removal/swapping out of Scientific is also accompanied by the appropriate change of starting tech from BW to something else).