GOZ3 -(Totally Barbaric)-C3C

[gozpel]

1

2

3

4

5

 

[microbe]

I vote goes to 2 or 5.

Ivory is good (SoZ would be nice to have) and 5 has a hut which we can pop immediately without worrying about barbs.

But all look good anyway.

 

[gozpel]

1 is very strong, with the floodplains close

2 is not as strong as the others foodwise, but have that lovely jumbo there, and we need something to help us from an early GA.

When I compare the pics side by side, I don't like number 3 and besides, that map is quite close to the south pole.

4 and 5 are potential powerhouses.

But for the sake of the ivory, I would like to go for 2, even if it will hamper our food production. It will be much tougher without a settler factory.

If you throw that out of the window, I would pick either of 1, 4 or 5.

 

[barbslinger]

No minimaps. Tough to decide.
//relurk

 

[gozpel]

Only number 3 is in the very south, the rest are pretty much in the middle.

Had a couple of beers yesterday and can't fiddle around with the mini maps, you have to trust my word

 

[microbe]

gozpel, how did you manage to get those starts? Did you use some tools to automate this?

I want a tool to generate good start position for games like OCC - everytime I'd have to reload like 30 times.

 

[gozpel]

I got those maps and others in less than 30 minutes.

I even rejected a couple interesting ones, especially one with 2 luxes, but very little food in a forest/jungle area

Totally I had around a dozen starts which I chose from.

Moonsinger's MapFinder is supposed to be a great tool, but I haven't tried it yet. Read more about it here

 

[conehead234]

I think either 1, 2 or 5.

 

[akots]

I'd vote for 1 and 5. Both are splendid. However, would not object against 4 as well. Numbers 2 and 3 have poor food or shields, respectively.

IMHO, we can try to win with Despotism only, without Fascism. Just need some cash, knights (upgraded from horses), MDI, and caravels. Or since we are seafaring, galleys would suffice as well. May be there is a sea route to everywhere. Just have to play very accurately. Depends on starting civilizations.

If we avoid Despotic Golden Age, how then we trigger Fascist GA? Find some archer to kill with NM? Or by wonders?

 

[microbe]

I'm not too concerned about avoiding GA in despo (and it would be very hard to avoid anyways). We do need to avoid GA with a too small territory.

 

[grahamiam]

I vote for 5.

 

[gozpel]

Seems like 1 and 5 are in the finals. To pick one, I go for 5.

If we get that despot GA, then we better have a fair bunch of cities when it happens, then we at least get something out of it.

 

[grahamiam]

ok, now that we know where we're starting, do we have an initial stratagy from the group?

tech notes: start with alpha and masonry; we will pop hut with 1st settler build so what does that mean? can we get a tech with that or does that limit our chances to a settler or a warrior?

research notes: i like akots stratagy of bee-lining for phil and getting lit as the freebee, though we may want to think of getting a different tech and then researching lit (with a GLib prebuild) if it seems possible to beat the AI to it. for initial research, we could max research pottery 1st so we can get the granery done early or we can min research writing and hope to buy it from an early contact. with raging barb's and no scouts, the chance of getting tech's from huts is probably low.

improvement notes: irrigated cow and game, 2 mined BG's, (4 cit. workers) give us +6fpt and 6spt. At size 5, working a forrest, we get +5fpt and 8spt so we should be able to do a 4-5 4T settler factory assuming that the cit. jumps to the forrest when the pop grows. (assumes 4fpt from irr. cow and 4fpt from irr. game which i think is right)
edit: i did this mostly for myself to make sure i know how we want to proceed when i'm up

 

[akots]

Yes, seems like irrigating cown, chopping forest over game, and irrigating it. Mining BG and factory is up. But it would take at least about 50 worker turns to finish the job. May be, there are some other tiles around which will make the life easier.

 

[microbe]

I'd rather pick Map Making (it's archipelago) or CoL (so we are closer to Republic) as free tech. Literature is on AI's low priority. We should get our prebuild going first and then research Lit.

EDIT: Oops, we don't need the freaking Republic. So Map Making it is?

 

[akots]

Since we are going to stay all MA in Despotism, we would have plently of cash for upgrades but this cash would not be enough for research. If we aim for GL, we would have to research Pottery, Writing, Phylosophy, and Literature. That is all and forever. Everything else prior to Education, we get from GL. MapMaking included. Actually, we don't need even Phylosophy. It is just for fun and some trade to get AI's cash in our Carthagian pockets. Besides, MapMaking if rather useless to us because we are seafaring.

 

[grahamiam]

Originally posted by akots
Yes, seems like irrigating cown, chopping forest over game, and irrigating it. Mining BG and factory is up. But it would take at least about 50 worker turns to finish the job. May be, there are some other tiles around which will make the life easier.

wow, 50 turns. we're industrious, right? thought we'd be a little faster than that. maybe we need a 2nd worker as an early build if other tiles don't prove useful.

edit 1: on second thought, i calculated it in my head: 15 turns of roading/moving(cow, game,1 extra grass, 2BG's) + 5 turns for forrest chop + 6 turns irr. + 6 turns mining = 32T so, if I leave mining the 2nd BG last, could have that baby up and running just in time for your turn

edit 2: by getting a tech other than Lit. with phil., maybe we can get a tech monopoly and turn it into some gold. however, we will also get a ton of gold by turning off research after lit. hmm, so, i guess it all depends on the situation

 

[microbe]

Originally posted by akots
Since we are going to stay all MA in Despotism, we would have plently of cash for upgrades but this cash would not be enough for research. If we aim for GL, we would have to research Pottery, Writing, Phylosophy, and Literature. That is all and forever. Everything else prior to Education, we get from GL. MapMaking included.

I am not sure I agree with this.

Remember this is archipelago and just emperor. The AI is slow at research if they don't meet each other. We also need to make contacts to make the best use of Great Library. Thus I consider Map Making is the most important tech to have and Great Lighthouse is more important than Great Library. It would make early conquest much easier.

My opinion is go for Great Lighthouse first then Great Library. As I said AI considers Lit low priority. We should be able to get both.

 

[grahamiam]

Originally posted by microbe
My opinion is go for Great Lighthouse first then Great Library. As I said AI considers Lit low priority. We should be able to get both.

microbe, akots, you both have valid points. however, we will not know which to prioritize till we get a better idea of the map. if we have contact with 5 or more civ's and it looks like the islands are chained such that many will more be reachable, then i think the Glib out weights the GLight. However, if we find we're a bit too isolated, then the GLight outweighs the GLib.

We'll have to make a judgement call when philosophy is close to finished. I'm looking forward to the insightful discussion

 

[microbe]

grahamiam, I completely agree with you. I meant to write that but I was just lazy. Although I believe in a large map Lighthouse is more important.