GR18-AWM Genocide Variant vs 30 Civs.

[Greebley]

There is a certain part of the game when you can bombard ships to 1 hp and use a galley to sink them. This kills the units on it too.

Once the AI can travel oceans and seas, this is less useful as the ships stay away from land.

 

[Mumpulus]

I usually start that tactic when I get privateers, to quickly build a fleet without much investment. I've found that you need more than one galley to make this tactic work, but starting with only one privateer is feasible.

I had landings only at Bussy Byzzies during my turns. With this huge map, there's no way of telling where the landings will be and how long they will remain in one spot. I wouldn't invest in this in this case. Furthermore, all AIs that have landed units can now travel oceans it seems.

Regarding the general tactic: I think it's more useful at the time when landings are problematic, but at that time you mostly don't have the resources to set this up. Once you do have the resources, you're mostly in a position when it's more useful to allow the landing to leaderfish.

 

[vmxa]

There is a certain part of the game when you can bombard ships to 1 hp and use a galley to sink them. This kills the units on it too.

Sounds good, but it is pipe dream. I have seen so many galleys lose attacking 1 hp point ships of any flavor you want to name. It may or may not work. Usually not, but worse of all, you just are not going to have many chances to even try it.

First it is not easy to have the cats or what ever to be where you need them to bombard, second they have to actually redline the ship. Now you have to have your galley at that location as well and last it has to win.

These combinations are not common are large maps. Mostly because you have few net shields to build a galley. What you tend to see is the galley get sunk go to and fro.

Anyway as you know I have argued against building them all along, since it is AW, you often just find another civ to declare on before you want it. I do not recall many wins sinking anything and probably it was after they unloaded their troops.

I tend to prefer they spend the time going back and bring more units for me to fish on.

 

[Northern Pike]

I've only had time for three turns so far, but things are going well enough, and we've razed six enemy cities. The only alarming development is that the Celts now have cav, so most of the AI civs on our continent will probably have them soon.

I'll post in about two days.

 

[Northern Pike]

1756 AD, end of turn

 

[Northern Pike]

1740 (0): We pick off another two enemy units in the NW, and two in the NE (4-0).

One of our knights survives the attack of a Mayan LB (5-0).


1745 (1): We auto-raze Hittite Karatepe--the size-one replacement version of the city--held by two MDI (7-0).

We raze Hittite Santiago, held by three pikemen and an LB (11-0). We capture a treb and destroy a settler.

We fell twelve enemy units (as well as two settlers) in the NW; two in the NE; none in the E; and one in the S (26-0).

We see a Celtic cav unit in the mountains.


1750 (2): We ride down a Russian musketman landed next to Busy Byzzies (27-0).

We raze Hittite Ivriz, held by three pikemen (30-0).

We winkle out the first two pikemen of Hattusas's garrison (32-0).

We auto-raze Carthaginian Saldae (garrison of one Numidian), just founded in the eastern desert (33-0).

Otherwise we smite just one foe in the NW, one (with a settler) in the NE, and one in the E (36-0). This isn't a target-rich, GL-friendly environment any more.

We found the fill-in town of Ash Wednesday.


1752 (3): We raze the Hittite capital of Hattusas, held by a remaining garrison of three pikemen (39-0). We thus destroy the Great Library, which we're still eligible to use, in 1752 AD. We capture a treb.

We strike down two pikemen of Tarsus's garrison (41-0).

We raze Sumerian Kuara, held by two musketmen, though it proves a tough job even for two mace armies (43-0). We capture a treb.

We slay two musketmen in Sumerian Der, after the bombardment units dragged laboriously through the mountains do very well, but the town remains held by an LB (45-0).

We mop up a Mayan MDI and a Russian musketman landed near Busy Byzzies (47-0).

Outside Ridge Town in the mountains, where the Celts have put together a strike force of a cav and seven knights, we unhorse the cav and two knights (50-0).

In the NW we expunge an additional five enemy units (55-0).

Six Celtic cav appear N of New Nemausus, overwhelming one of our pikemen, though it takes a cav with it (56-1). It’s a very well-timed stroke, when our armies in the area are depleted and off roads after combat, and our minimal local reserves have been drawn W towards Ridge Town. We may have to sacrifice a couple of towns in the area to contain the problem.

We also lose a pikeman to the attack of a Zulu knight outside On To The Hittites in the NW (56-2).


1754 (4): We raze Sumerian Der in the mountains, held by a remaining garrison of one LB (57-2). We capture a treb.

We raze Hittite Tarsus, held by a remaining garrison of one pikeman (58-2).

We account for two pikemen in Hittite Kadesh, and one in Hittite Hattusa (61-2).

Next to Busy Byzzies we bully a Portuguese knight/pikeman pair, landed from a fleet of four Carracks (63-2).

We exterminate four enemies (with a settler) in the NW, one in the E, and a Celtic cav in the S (69-2).

At Ridge Town the gamble of leaving a knight army in the town for the surrounding Celtic knights to attack pays off, as four perish (73-2).

At New Nemausus the Celtic cavalry break two of our pike units and auto-raze the town, but it’s not a bad exchange, as the pikemen (fighting behind rushed walls) impale two cav and redline three more, robbing the Celtic offensive of most of its momentum (75-4). However…

…the Byzantines land a stack of seven cav next to Busy Byzzies, where we can’t even make seven attacks after sending one of our armies north to deal with the Celtic cav, and…

…we still have problems at Ridge Town, which is now surrounded by seven Sumerian units, mostly LB.

The Byzantines complete Shakespeare.


1756 (5): We raze Hittite Kadesh, held by a remaining garrison of a pikeman and a spearman (77-4).

We raze Hittite Hattusha, held by a remaining garrison of a pikeman and a spearman (79-4). We capture a treb.

We raze Russian Adana, held by two musketmen, although as usual rooting musketmen out of a size 7+ city takes quite a toll on knight armies (81-4).

Around the ruins of New Nemausus we shatter three Celtic cav weakened by the heroic stand of our pikemen (84-4).

At Busy Byzzies what should be the easiest part of the job, taking the first two Byz cav out with our mace army before bombardment, is almost a disaster, when the army falls to 1 HP. But after this our luck turns, with excellent bombardment results, and no nasty surprises in the ensuing attacks by non-army units. We rout six of the Byz cav and leave the seventh redlined (90-4).

We liquidate eight enemy units (with a settler) in the NW, and three (with a settler) in the NE (101-4).

Edit: The terms of our variant required us to disband thirty captured workers this round.

Just nine elite victories this turn, one of them defensive, didn’t generate a Great Leader.

 

[Northern Pike]

We’ve destroyed the Hittite core, and Karhuyuk on the banks of the inland sea in the NE may be their last city. We can now get started on the Russians in the far NW—but no single-army offensives, since attacking full-sized cities held by musketmen with knight armies is chancy.

We have considerable reinforcements approaching the southeastern mountains and the landing zone at Busy Byzzies, so we should be able to stabilize that front as long as there isn’t another, immediate large landing, and provided we get decent RNG at Ridge Town this IT. Note the full-strength Celtic cav next to Lake Town, and the redlined cav a bit E of that next to three of our armies, which may try to escape S towards Peeky.

With one Byz cav still alive in the area, I had to end my last turn with units in Busy Byzzies. But normally we should leave it empty, or the AI may start landing somewhere else.

So far we’ve seen Celtic cav only in the mountains, not in the eastern desert or on any part of the northern front

Apart from one fill-in town, I didn’t try to found cities this round. In part this was due to the threat of cavalry—especially in the NE, where we have the ideal situation for dealing with cav in a wide no-man’s-land, and I didn’t want to sacrifice this advantage by settling right up to the Mayan border. But the main issue was that we didn’t have setters in the former Spanish and Hittite lands in the far NW, which is the best and safest place for us to settle at the moment. We have some settlers well forward in that area now, and the next player should be able to found three towns there next turn as indicated in the screenshot.

We need to keep moving armies along the lateral road in front of our north central position (Pae The Rent to Finally Bananas Again) to spot any threats well in advance, since those towns aren’t garrisoned.

I’ve let some regular pikemen complete, and have some others building, in towns where I didn’t like any other build. We’ll always be able to use them for MP duty. I didn’t want to build settlers in river towns which are making slow progress towards size seven, and as for trebs, we’ve got enough underpowered bombardment units already and can wait for our UU. Once we learn Metallurgy, we can change regular-pikeman builds to Hwach’a at the next player’s discretion.

To repeat, we can get a worker out of Taegwon >>Workers<< every two turns, but only if we adjust it every turn. A Quick Won While He’s Away can have Taegwon’s mined mountain on Taegwon’s six-food-surplus turns, but not on its four-food-surplus, five-shield turns. We need to rely on the extra or magical fifth shield we get when the town grows momentarily to size six on a six-food-surplus, four-shield turn. This way the city will complete a worker, as will occur this IT, even though it’s apparently going to fall a shield short.

I’ve left some units with their movement to call attention to them or to their stacks, as usual.

 

[Northern Pike]

Settling the wasteland:

The battleground:

 

[Greebley]

I am up since I swapped with NP. I got it.


Roster:
Greebley - Up
NP - Just Played
markh - On Deck
ThERat - Should be back to play next turn
Mumpulus

 

[Mumpulus]

Look at all that science farm land

Regarding worker builds in Taegwon: I kept it on an even +5fpt all the time, and made sure the mountain was available to grow into. That makes 4s + 6s on growth. Mining is underway near QuickWon to continuously have a mountain available for it, instead of having to share it. That's less MM-intensive (although I still went over all towns every turn )

Timing is excellent to take on the Russians, to avoid their UU. I'm sure we'll be able to move onto the Celts pretty soon. We probably shouldn't fill any more armies for the time being, but wait for cavalry instead?

The next player should remember to have workers ready to hook up saltpeter upon discovery of metallurgy.

 

[Northern Pike]

Regarding worker builds in Taegwon: I kept it on an even +5fpt all the time, and made sure the mountain was available to grow into. That makes 4s + 6s on growth.

Sure, I didn't mean to suggest that you hadn't been running the worker pump properly; it just seemed worthwhile to review the mechanics, or my mechanics.

We probably shouldn't fill any more armies for the time being, but wait for cavalry instead?

I'd say so, yes.

The next player should remember to have workers ready to hook up saltpeter upon discovery of metallurgy.

We have workers near three saltpetre sources, though one is hard to see under ruins in the desert, so this should happen almost automatically.

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: Your set sez that Hattusas was destroyed twice...

 

[Northern Pike]

Thanks for reading so carefully. I've corrected the second instance to Hattusha.

 

[vmxa]

I always hated those town names being so close, very confusing.

 

[ThERat]

great progress...the GA should give us the chance to take over the major part of the continent and get on ouir way to the IA.

What is the unit support at the moment and how many cities do we have?

And, yes, I will be able to play the next round as I am back early next week.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Minor changes

IBT: Swordman wins vs 1 HP Cavalry and becomes Elite.
Get a landing near Tver. Newton is finished. I think we will see Rifles soon.

1758 AD: Build Seaside Rendezous, Welcome to the Machine, and Pigs on the Wing.
Kill Knight, Musket, 2 Pike, Numidean, 2 settler in our territory to the west + others
Kill 2 Cavalry, Knight, 2 Longbow in East (Sumeria+Celts).
Two Knights Kill Pike, MDI for Tver landing; Longbow remains.

IBT: First Bombardment I have seen.
Landed longbow dies attacking. Spot a Cossack this turn.

1760 AD: Destroy a new town Tulum by Mayans. Build 2 more towns in the North.
Starting to go after Russia (Armies healed last turn)

1762 AD: Razed Orenburg (Russsian) Razed Rostolov (sp?)
Build City: The Quiet Jungle. Spot Russian Gunpowder. May be able to pillage to stop Cossacks

IBT: I missed dealing with a landing near Tver and it is taken. Really stupid - sorry guys. I am going to blame my cold.

1764 AD: Destroy Magaden (Russian new town). Raze Yakutsk near Saltpeter
Tver razed to the ground. It had Russian cooties.
New Russian city of Mumansk auto-destroyed.

11 turns to Mil Trad at 40% science (20% Lux). We will connect Salt next turn.

IBT: Single Musket near Busy Bizzies.

1766 AD: Build our first UU.
Sword Army drops to 4 hp unexpectedly fighting a Cavalry on flat Find a way to defend it but it may cost a Pike and a Knight.
BTW the Celts have switched sizes again of that inland sea.

IBT: Lose said Pike and Knight.

1768 AD: Kill a 1 hp Cav with a Hwacha and we enter our Golden age.
Declare war on 3 new Civs - Rome, India, France.
Raze Yekaterinburg (Russian) and we find Coast to the North!

Another 3 new Cities: Tang of Cow and Quagmire of Despair and Eastern Sea.

IBT: Another civ Germany. We declare War.
Two huge landings on the Same turn near Busy Bizzies 18 units total 9 American units are less advanced and include Ancient Cav and Horsemen

1770 AD: We get lucky we have to protect only 1 town. Kill some of the Greek units that are stronger.
Get my first Leader and build an Army It gets filled to help out.
Attack Chichen Itza. Some Armies found Moscow.

IBT: Our defense in Busy Bizzies goes badly. We lose the sword army to the little weaker American units including a Horse that does 5 damage to it to kill it. We lose the Pikes and a Knight and our new army survives with 1 hp. In addition there are four more landings by four other civs totalling 16 units! Thats 34 units in 2 turns total. This is the single strongest landing attempt I have seen in AW ever. I had another Knight Army and a Knight heading that way, but it won't to be enough.

1772 AD: We have many towns to cover and all but 2 units in the area were killed so we will be losing towns. Nothing I can do about it.
Novgorod and Moscow are Razed. Both size 12 - we are destroying their main core.

IBT: Taegwon was captured by the Arabs.
Chongfu was Captured by the Arabs (they had several Ansar in their stack) Note that Chongfu was doomed anyway from another landing.
Lagging was destroyed Incans. Lone defender in Peeky unfortunately loses vs a Knight and the town is destroyed Incans again.
Well Arabs and Incans had ROP so we lose a final town Huich'on to the Incans. They had 2 Cav and a Knight to take 3 cities of ours since our defender lost.
We also lose Swampville through my error.

1774 AD: Raze Huichon (killing a Cav) costs us a Knight and nearly killing both. Kill some Ansar in Chongfu. Kill an Ansar and Cav in Taegwon which is Razed.
I bombarded the last Cav from the landings to 1 HP so I hope the Knight can hold it.

IBT: Big landing near New Tver. Aztecs declare war via MMP.

1776 AD: Autodestroy Aubrum. Chongfu is Razed.
Some cities built.

Notes:
This game looks like it will remain hard until we get a rail network. Distances are so huge and we have so much to protect.

Hard turns and I was not up to my usual ability to play. I lost two towns to simply not noticing. I have a bad cold and it affected me more than I would have thought. Not sure even if I had been playing well that I could have avoided the loss of the cities near Busy Bizzies (which was the only town to survive by the way).

Landing near New Tver does not look good. We have too few units and the two Armies near Busy Bizzies have 1 and 5 HP with other units damaged.
Picture of the landing and near Busy Bizzies. markh, I think you are going to just have to try to minimize city loss. We will need more units.

Golden Age means getting Mil Tradition next turn. I meant to prebuild the Mil Academy, but forgot. Theology was 5 turns before the Golden Age so I think we can get it at positive money. I would use that money to upgrade Knights. We have gotten Mil Tradition before we spotted a Rifle which is good news. I would be suprised though if there wasn't an AI that can now build Rifles, however. It just takes a long time for units to get to us.

We have a decent army count on the Sumerian front. I am not worried there, though more normal units would be nice.

On the Russian front we have made real progress. The armies are badly damaged at the moment, but will heal up in the inter-turn. They are mostly in the new town of Flibber. As you can see by the next picture we have almost created a new front line between our lands and the ocean to the North. If that water is true ocean, the Russians and some other civs are isolated to the Northwest and can be killed.

Kept up settler creation - we have 27 now heading for the front line which takes many turns. Between the time I connected Saltpeter and now I built LOTS of our UU. I would do a massive changeover to Cavalry this next (inter-)turn. We may also want to consider disbanding some Catapults to lower unit cost (currently 133 gold) at some point.

The Save

 

[Greebley]

I think we are really feeling the effect of the Variant now. Razing all these cities means it is much harder to expand and we don't get the huge science benefit from instant size 12 towns.

Roster:
Greebley - Just Played
NP - (swap)
markh - Up
ThERat - On Deck
Mumpulus

 

[Northern Pike]

Obviously a gruelling round. When the AI lands so many units that we have to respond by defending our densely packed cities rather than attacking, there aren't any good choices.

Objectively, what we're accomplishing in the NW should outweigh the loss of some science camps. It's good that we can apparently isolate the Zulus in the farthest NW, and that we've located the Mayan core.

 

[Northern Pike]

Our best chance of keeping the landing of fast Arabic units next to New Tver from developing into a disaster will be with rushed units. So we should:

1. Cut the science rate to zero, which will bring in either 402 or 469 gold for rushes next turn, depending on whether the next player also wants to cut the lux rate back to 10%, which looks feasible.

2. Raise 100 gold for immediate rushes, first by selling unneeded walls (e.g. in Namwon Part II, Taegu, Hyangsan), then by selling other improvements we can quickly replace (barracks in towns with close to forty accumulated shields, for example).

3. Rush MDI in Sugar Top, Joy Ride, and Sugar Babe. We should be able to do this with one gold to spare.

4. Pull the three workers around Oasis which still have their movement off their present tasks (two are mopping up lava), and move them towards Oasis's hooked-up saltpetre, while also moving a combat unit towards Oasis so that it can pillage the salt tile next turn. (We can't do it this turn, as far as I can see.) This way the next player will be able to rush both pikemen and salt-requiring units next turn, provided he does things in exactly the right order (move workers onto tile, pillage, rush pikemen, re-build road, rush other units).

5. Move the knight in New Tver into New Anshan. If we encourage the Arabs to move east by leaving New Anshan empty, they'll take two towns (with Fool By The Mountain next) almost without fighting, and their units won't even be worn down.

6. Move at least the elite horseman next to More Added Cash, the pikeman and cats in Pae Attention, and the swordsman in Won For The Books towards the danger zone.

 

[markh]

Sorry for the late notice, but I got it now.