GR22 - AWDG vs 30 Civs (try 2 of ?)

[Northern Pike]

975 (1): We spit a Celtic archer outside Lagartero (1-0).

Our various enemies infiltrate rather than making bad attacks, unfortunately.

Our GA ends.


950 (2): We spear three more enemy archers next to Lag, gaining two slaves (4-0).

I've had to abandon a couple of worker jobs. Setting single slaves to six-turn tasks near the front line doesn't work well.

Enemy movements cause starvation at Copan--justification for our putting the pre-build in Palenque, anyway.

Camelburger walls --> barracks.


925 (3): We found Cameltoe on the east coast. Hoarding a settler near the dyes before we get a road built towards the dyes is needless.

We get poor RNG luck around Lag, and disposing of two archers and a warrior costs us two JT (7-2).

A Celtic spearman in position to pillage one of our cows serendipitously attacks a warrior instead, and perishes (8-2).


900 (4): We slay three infiltrating English units around Quirigua, gaining a slave (11-2).

Lazapa walls (aided by forest chop) --> barracks.


875 (5): We grind down a Bab stack of a Bowman and two warriors next to Bonampak, losing a JT (14-3).


850 (6): Writing --> Literature, due in 29 turns.


825 (7): We impale two Bab warriors next to Bonampak (16-3).

The Persians appear. Xerxes has ten cities, four ivory sources, BW, CB, and the Wheel. Apparently the green border to our NW is Persian, not Celtic, so it's surprising we didn't meet the Persians before this. We declare war.

A Celtic horseman attacks Pal, and redlines/retreats.


800 (8): We dispose of two English units between Bonampak and Lazapa, gaining a slave (18-3).

We cut down a Dutch warrior near Copan (19-3).

Our enemies make three bad attacks at Palenque, but we only succeed completely against one, losing a JT and forcing a redlined horseman to retreat (20-4). We gain a slave.

Quirigua barracks --> JT.


775 (9): We gain two slaves the old-fashioned way, by smiting a Persian warrior/settler pair (21-4).

We strike down two Bowmen next to Quirigua (23-4).

Two Celtic archers fall at the walls of Palenque (25-4). We gain a slave.

Yaxchilan walls --> JT.

The Portuguese complete the Statue—probably on our continent, though we haven't met them, since we know there’s ivory here.


750 (10): We overwhelm two English archers next to Bonampak, generating our first GL (27-4), who forms an army.

Twelve elite victories this round generated one GL.

Twenty-four JT victories produced six slaves.

OK, time for GTA IV.

 

[Northern Pike]

Obviously the appearance of the Persians is bad news, but this is still about as good a chance as we can hope for to get the GLib at these settings, and we should stick with that goal. Right now we’re at seventeen turns to the palace and twenty-three to Literature, so it shouldn’t be hard to keep those numbers in the right relationship.

We haven't seen Immortals yet.

We’re producing three-turn JT in CI at the moment, but can easily return to settlers at any time. We can still fit in three towns, not great but not useless, along our northern coast, so we can’t give up on settler production altogether. We should try to found at least one city per round.

Enemy movements have the potential to reduce Palenque to negative food, so we need to watch that situation.

Our new army, still empty, is in the capital.

 

[Northern Pike]

Awaiting the Immortals:

 

[ThERat]

great news about the army This army can help us to either defend in th west or help expand towards the dyes. At least we got some options here.

 

[vmxa]

Lets hope Xerxes does not have iron for a now. We also caught a small break that Henry got the SoZ and we have not met him. If Xerxes had the statue and immortals, he could run over a lot of ground.

We still need at least one, but better two armies very soon.

 

[Greebley]

I was guessing from NP's comments that Persia does have Iron. We can check this game.

Army will definitely help, though I agree with vxma that more army luck soon might be a necessity especially if immortals.

When we get Literature, I think we should do some worker merges. We should build workers now to upgrade the land around Palenque. We want to minimize the amount of time to go from 300 to 400 shields. With 2 cows and a bunch of hills we should be able to get to a good number of shields if we prepare. It is worth running high lux and low science if it can get us the GLib

Roster:
Greebley
Northern Pike - Just Played
M60A3TTS - Up
vxma - On Deck
ThERat
markh

 

[Northern Pike]

The Persians didn't have iron hooked up when we declared war, but with ten cities down on a terrain mix probably similar to ours, it's likely that they have it somewhere.

I like Greebley's ideas on setting Palenque up for the final run to the GLib.

 

[vmxa]

Yeah we need to be able to boost Pal, but that can only be done if we can prevent units from being on used tiles in that town.

 

[Greebley]

Pal tiles were pretty safe on my turns. Not sure if that will always be the case though. We may want to cover our workers simply so we don't lure units to target the workers 1 or 2 Jav should do it. With 3 or 4 we could even improve hill tiles when enemies are about

 

[vmxa]

NP stated on at least two turns that units (horse and archers) attacked Pal. It has at least two towns near it, so I do not see how we can expect to not see attackers there, especially if workers are about.

 

[Greebley]

Then we should guard the workers. If we can start early, it can be a single stack - not too hard to protect Good defense in Palenque could also help as the AI won't target the town The 'inner' (= more protected) hills can be upgraded first.

Even better would be building towns so that Pal is in the interior, but that might not be possible given what I remember of the setup.

Unit walls can also be done especially in hills and mountains. The AI will go around. Not sure if this location is practical however.

 

[vmxa]

Yeah, if we could spare 2 jt's in a stack that would be great. I think they would attack a single one, but if it was two let them attack. The bombardment will increase our chances.

The problem is we will be hard pressed to spare that many units right now.

 

[M60A3TTS]

Finished up. Rather similar to the last game in that there are too many units banging on the doors as we have to build 2 strength defenders at 30 shields a pop. While the city walls and some hills provide plenty of wins, losses when they happen take some time to replace. Horses from the Dutch and Celts mean their unit isn't always finished off without exposing one of our own. No lack of slaves to collect, but can't free up JTs at this point to escort with any degree of confidence that the cities wouldn't need them, or the work crews would be adequately protected.

Yes, the Persians have arrived with more than a few immortals. However, our army has fought magnificently, and in fact almost to extinction. Also with Bab bows in the mix, we can possibly be looking at 2 AA civs in their GAs duking it out with us. If the Celts show up with GWs, it may well be good night Irene. But nothing better from them than horses...yet.

England not too much of a nussaince, archers primarily.

I didn't keep a very good turn log, tried to get turns in last night after a family outing. Have all the towns we started with, just a lot more slaves and maybe a few warriors missing. Science is on track, 7 to Lit along with pre-build. Probably about a dozen teenage girls at my house, so I'm going to have to leave it here for now. Will post more later.

 

[vmxa]

Ok, I got, let's see how it goes.

 

[vmxa]

PRE:
Not too good. We are doing -2gpt and have 5 gold, so we are not going to be
able to do that for more than 1 turn. We have one town in riot and one
starving, so not sure what I real income is going to be.

I do know we could face repetition of these types of events and 3 gold is no cushion.

We have 31 units either in our borders or next to them, so that is not a good sign.

IBT:
not pretty. 1-1-3. All three horses retreated. One Celt archer killed a Jav at
Pal, so it is too low to defend. One Jav won at Copan. 2 English archers and 2
English warriors step on a mined tile at Pal. This means a loss of a shield and
1 gold, which we need.

I posted this now to alert everyone that I seriously doubt I can get out of this with out the lose of at least Tikal and probably Pal. So if a few players wanted to load the save and see what you think about the prognosis.

The loss of the 4th unit at Pal is the big hit. With 10 units there, we have three defenders. One is 3/4 jav, the town could go out for sure. I see two choices 1) go for broke and try to hold everything or 2) protect Pal with moving units from elsewhere to ensure it makes it.

Plan one lets us come out in better shape, IF it can be done. Plan two keeps the GLB alive for now, but will put two towns at risk. Anyone with a crystal ball that can tell me what the AI will do under given set of conditions?

Anyway I am going to see if I can come with a plan that has a shot. I see a lot of wounded horses around, which really sucks as they are not having to replace losses and are putting tiles and workers under pressure.

 

[M60A3TTS]

Those archers and warriors are the typical English color, but they're actually Dutch. Agricultural of course, as are the Celts so you can see we're up against a fast growing lot. When you add the Persians and the Babs, this doesn't look so good.

I'm really a bit unenthusiastic about the Mayans in AW. We need cheap defenders and we have expensive ones instead. Without the time to get BW, Math or HBR, our hopes for survival comes down to getting armies. Sure, the free slaves are a nice add, but our cities aren't exactly 10-shielders either.

Copan has been a tricky defense because it's reinforcements can only come from PAL. CI and Lagartero are 4 distant. So more shifting than usual is needed. Anyways, the power graph has been on the decline since the end of the GA. Not sure what else to suggest, maybe rush buy some JTs?

 

[Northern Pike]

I agree that the situation appears to be deteriorating, but I'm not as worried about this turn as Vmxa is, because most of the enemy units next to Pal--the warriors in particular--aren't going to attack at the bad odds they'd face. I'd attack the Immortal/spear stack next to Tikal twice with the army; hit the remaining Immortal with a JT (even if we lose, we should do enough damage to eliminate any danger to the army, and if we win we can cover the JT with a full-strength one); move one JT out of Lag to a reserve position from which it can reach Pal or Copan and fortify in one turn; and just hang on with the present garrison at Pal.

M60 makes a good point about the Maya being stuck with a 30-shield defender for so long during the GLib drive. Even so, this position would look very different if we'd had better luck with Great Leaders, or with the identities of our neighbours.

 

[vmxa]

I agree with you. The pile of rivers is nice, but we cannot cross them either, so it is extra hard to cover, even the 3 space towns. Not able to rush anything, unless we take a big set back on Lit.

I have finished three turns and some how have managed to hang on, but no leader. No offense either, but once the GLB is either ours or theirs, we can maybe move ahead.

Here is what has occurred:

530BC (1):
Pal has 10 units next to it that can attack and we are now down to 2 Javs and a warrior.

5/5 jt from Copan kills English warrior (1-0).
Desperate times require risky moves, so I attack immortal at Tikal with JT and
get a slave. If I can steal two wins here I can use the army to save the tile
at Pal and then the town.

Rats, the spear came on top of the stack due to its inferior attack. The AI
will put up the cheaper or the least offensive units when the defenses are equal.

I thought the Immortal was 4/4. but it is 3/3. Now I cannot attack with the jav.

JT from Cameltoe kills bowman gets slave (2-0).
5/5 jav at Pal kills English warrior.
3/4 jav kills English archer (3-0).
1st kills English archer, gets a slave and enters Pal (4-0).

Risk that Xerkse will not attack with spears at Tikal or we get lucky and the
Immortal does not win or they just move on.

Pal is shakey, but has 12/14 army and 4/4 warrior and two redlined javs. I
suspect that the Celts will attack, but the Queen will bypass the town.

Going to be a scary IT. Hardest (4-0) turn I ever want to have.
I have to presume that the English will move to the same tile they had filled
at Pal. So that means I cannot put a citizen on it.

I also need to presume the spear will step to the core and land on the next
river tile that is being worked by Pal now. If all of this is correct and it is
the natural thing to occur, I move move now to a hill tile that no one will
occupy.

This means loss of shields and food and income. None of these we can afford. If
I do not and they do move to those tiles, the city will shut down. That we can
least afford. So I do it.

IBT:
So far so good. They did move that way, but we do not riot. Horse attacks the
jav I send to replace the one out of Copan and we win (1-0). Imagine a horse
did not retreat.

Archer attack army in Pal and dies (2-0). I am not sure if any other attacks
took lace, but we did not lose it if it did. [6-0]

510BC (2):
Well more trouble. Pal is starving and the scientist has to become an
entertainer.

We are -3gpt with 1 gold in hand.

Two bowmen are closing in on Lazapa, so I send a jav from Cameltoe. I am
thinking about switching the rax to a unit, but will hold off to see where the
bowmen head.

5 units, one a horse are inside Bonampak and that is rough. I already had to
move workers from last incursion to to less than useful task.

JT kills archer at Quiri. I see that was England, so may have been calling
someone English that was not (1-0).

JT kills Bow near Bonampak and goes elite and gets slave (2-0).
JT kills bow and gets slave (3-0).
Bonampak Puncher retreats English horse. I have to attack those units on a
mountain as we have exposed redline units and no one will be able to defend on
the IT or attack next turn at this location.

5/5 kills last unit at Bonampak (4-0).
jt kills redlined horse at Lagartero and goes elite (5-0).
jt kills an archer on hill, English, goes elite (6-0).

I have to take these chances here as we risk losing units or towns otherwise.

Army kills 2 Dutch warriors from within Pal, so it is still defending. The
earlier mention of English was really Dutch (8-0).

JT from CI kills last dutch archer to clear tile and gets slave (9-0).
It is exposed to the spear, but I had to clear a tile or Pal was going to be a
mess.

I must hold that tile, so I move the warrior to cover the 1/4 jav and the 2/5
jt into heal. Now we can hold the tile, if the spear attacks.

Move citizen back to that tile and switch joker to beakerhead.

Ok, this may be not wise, but decide to not let the spear sit on that tile and
pillage it. I need both javs from CI to kill it (10-1) [16-1].

I send the warrior from Yax to CI so it will not riot.

I move pop in Bonampak from forest to river plains to get extra gold so we
break even on this turn. I am mining the tile so we will have two shields there
next turn anyway.

Need to find one more gold per turn. Ok, found it at Lazapa. I moved a pop off
forest to the flood plain to gain 1 gpt. Slows rax by two turns. I decide to
switch the rax to a jt. I have no units that can come to the aid here.

Now please no heavy influx of units for one turn while units heal.

IBT:
Good and not so good. Not so good is an English horse shows next to Lazapa and
2 bows also next to it and more 1 step behind them.

Good is we go 4-1 on defense. Get one elite and a slave at Copan and the army
gets two slaves. Further Zerkse is sending more units at Tikal.
[20-2]

490BC (3):
Lazapa has 6 bows and a horse to worry about. Makes all choices very tricky.
jt kills immortal at Tikal (1-0).
5/5 from Copan kill Dutch warrior on mountian as we had a stack of worker next
to it. I am sending over a jt from Tikal.

3/5 jt left in Copan, but no units can attack on the IBT (2-0). switch
specialist there.

4/5 jt in Lag kill archer (3-0) [23-2].
Pull workers off the flood tile at Lazapa as horse could grab them. Move one
tile back as horse is on the river.

 

[vmxa]

A second army would be so much help. We now have 8 elites, but only 1 is in fighting shape.

 

[Northern Pike]

That sounds like a great stand in a tough position so far.