GR22 - AWDG vs 30 Civs (try 2 of ?)

Going to have to deal with the boss lady for the rest of the night, so posting status for feedback. It is still very rough with many horse and immortals at hand or heading in.


IBT:
2 units attack at Pal and die 2-0).

470BC (4):
3/3 jt goes red and then kills bow at Laz (1-0). three units are now behind
Laz. I do not want to use up the units in Laz as 4 more bows are next to the
place.

jt retreats English horse at Laz.

Rng pays me back as 1st used 6 points to kill spear at Tikal (2-0).

Packer kills horse (3-0) [26-2].
Not much I can do about the lone bow behind Laz as I cannot send anyone out of the town. It has one full jt and one 1 hp. I in fact I send in a 5/5 from Bon for now.

IBT:
6 attacks on units and towns and all units were damaged before the combat. We went 4-2 and gain 2 slaves, from the army (4-2) [30-4].

The real bad news is that a Bab sword attackes Laz. It lost, but we will now
will being seeing 3 attack units on that end.

450BC (5):
3/3 warrior retreated the horse that had kill Packer from across a river during
the IT.

I should have sent that settler to the far finger long ago, so I do now. We are
a long ways from expanding to the dye and holding it. Once the GLB is done , we can make another settler. The extra town cannot hurt.

Got water in on a tile at Tikal, so not starving now.

HOLD THE PRESS, leader elects to show at Bonampak (1-0). Oh and got a slave as well, ain't that sweet?
5/5 kills bow.
I had already formed the second army at Laz with the three units there, now we can handle the swords. (2-0).
2nd comes out with its 8 hp and kills bow and one unit goes elite. Ends the
combat at 6/12.

Do some hop scotch by moving the new unit from CI to Quiri and the unit in
Quiri to Bonampak. Now I can send out a unit from Bon to finish of the stack of bows (3-0).

I see a new unit, but it is a Hittite and we already knew them. I just had not
see any till now and I would prefer not to see any more. It is a warrior.

Ugh, I see that we had not know them, so I offer to have a war. They had about 7 techs we do not have, but not currency or construction. I think some one started the Wall and the Lighthouse already.

Yup, it was Hammy, started the Wall.

I have to switch a pop off the hill to tax as we would finish the palace
otherwise. Lit is 2 turns and now so is the palace.
[33-4]

IBT:
no action, but Dutch and Celt horses bypass Copan and head inland. Celt archers also elect to head for the interior.

430BC (6):
Just when I was starting to feel real good, many units go around the towns as
England sent in some units toward Quiri.

I am bemoaning the rax that was not finished at Laz to fast heal the army.

Lower research a few clicks. switch scientist to tax at Yaz to prevent riot.
Switch pop to tax at Camel for same reason, so we stand to get a few gold here. This are all due to no MP.

jt kills immortal at Tikal (1-0).
Move a jt into Camel, so pop back to work.
Hum, tried to get Tikal growing, but had to put scientist to work and that
added a turn. So did that and then switch back to scientist at Camel.

Prefer Tikal to grow than camel right now as Camel has no rax.
The pressure is preventing me from using workers where I need them. So I move 1 on to three tiles out in the far north. I did this to get something out of them and to see if any barbs or units may be lurking.

1st kill horse (2-0).
jt retreats horse.
sorry i was side tracked and forgot what all happened this turn. It went something like jt retreat another horse.
Two jt's each kil redlined horses (4-0).
jt kills horse (5-0).

Shuffle citizens in three or four towns, because of all the incursions.
Lit next turn and Palace finishes, so hopefully we can switch to GLB.
Have left 9 units in our land and three places can be hit on the IBT.
Also had to expose one slave, but I am not going to cover it and risk a jav.
[38-4]

IBT:
It is pressure packed. Too many horses. Lost 2 exposed units in our borders.

Archer attacked a jt and we won that one and an immortal attacked Tikal and we won that one. Two horses killed javs (2-2) [40-6].

Archer stepped on grassland mined and Pal shutdown. Not good, but not enough units to risk attacking the archer on a hill.

410BC (7):
Galley comes around behind Camel, hope it is empty. It is ready going to be rough as the 2nd is nearly healed, but is on the other side of the world and needs to be some place close there till we can get more units to replace it.
 
I forgot to ask about research. BW or Math? I am thinking BW as it is much cheaper.
 
Looked at the save, I would move the army from Lazapa immediately. There are 12 fast movers between the Dutch and Celts, and we need all the help we can get there.
 
Well, the main thing we need to do with our gold now is raise the lux rate to 50% so that Pal doesn't need specialists. Once we've done that, I wouldn't object to our researching BW, although I don't think getting it about seven turns before the GLib would provide it will make much difference.

With two armies now, and seven elites to generate more, we can definitely turn this situation around. But we need to get another city down, regardless of its quality, to qualify for a third army.
 
I have not even looked at the save for the current turn, but for sure need to get all pop working in Pal. The issue is being able to keep the tile open for them.

The fast movers are the scary part. Not sure if research is useful either, will have to see how many turns to glb and how fast we can research.

I have a settler going for a spot for the third army already. Going out for breakfeast and then will get on to finish the set.
 
vmxa, are you still playing the remainder of the turns? It isn't that clear from the log

crosspost, ok it is clear now
 
I am going to post the save at this point as I am getting tied up with landscape workers and not making much progress. Just in case the next players wants to get in some time before Monday.

410BC:
5/5 jav kills immortal at Tikal (1-0).
warrior kills celt archer at Tikal (2-0).
5/5 jav kills celt horse at Lag (3-0).
jt kills English spear (4-0).
5/5 retreats celt horses.
5/5 barely kills celt archer to clear tile at Pal (5-0). Got a slave.
jt kills immortal at Tikal and gets a slave (6-0).
1st get pounded killing a Dutch horse and is 3 HP and got a slave. I have to move to Copan to heal.
5/5 retreats a horse. This is causing problems with all these wounded units hanging around.
5/5 retreat another horse.
jt kills one of the horses (7-0).
I go around and put everyone to work. I see it takes 50% lux to accomplish that, so I drop science to zero as it would be 11 turns anyway.

Next turn we will see how long to finish the GLB. No one shows in F7 as starting it. We do have some overlapping wonders going, so if they get Lit we have to sweat a cascade.
We have only 10 shields gross at Pal.

If we could get some control over the incoming and could get at least one mine on the hills there, it would be big boost. Probably will look to take a tile or two from someone next turn as well, but no sense doing that now.

The bad rng for 1st army makes things much worse and I will have to send the 2nd in that direction. It scares me to do that as we nothing much on that end. If the Queen decides to send swords and horses to Laz, it will be ugly.
[45-4]

IBT:
No attacks, but England sends a few units towards Laz.

390BC:
I grabbed one cow from Copan and gave to Pal and dropped GLB to 10 turns, IF we can keep the tiles clear.
5/5 kills bow near Laz (1-0).
5/5 kills horse (2-0).
4/5 jt retreats horse at Copan.
4/5 jt retreats horse at Copan, sound familiar?
4/4 jav does as well.

I left some units with attacks, if desired. Pal has two, 3 units there that may move to tiles. One unit in Tikal. The 2nd is able to move to either Pal or Tikal.

The big thing is what is the best move to both protect the towns and to prevent units form getting on tiles that Pal needs.
 
Tomorrow I can play after you have don you turns...

by the way, I think Carthage with its powerful UU might really be an option in case we fail here
 
I am on the last turn now. I will be leaving you in a tough spot, well all turns will be in a tough spot until we can get another army up.
 
[47-4]

IBT:
Dutch horses got lucky and 2 of them killed javs at Copan. 5 attackers died, most at Tikal, where the second army arrived in time to kill three, but is now 2/12.
Got some slaves, but not going to mention them any longer.
(5-2) [52-5]

370BC (9):
Several attacks and several units go around. We did lose a turn at Pal as horses elect to go pass the defenders.
jav kills English horse at Laz and goes elite (1-0).
5/5 retreat English horse at Laz.
jav kills English archer (2-0).
Cover the elite that is exposed at 2/5 by Laz.
5/5 kills dutch spear on irrigated tile behind Tikal (3-0).
warrior kills dutch warrior on same tile (4-0).
moved jt into Pal.
1st kills dutch horse at Copan (5-0).
jt kills the other dutch horse (6-0).
Put pop back on cow and we are now back to the 9 turns for the GLB.

I sent a jt towards the finger as we surely have a landing party there now. I just do not know if it is a settler combo or what. I am holding the settler there for now as I do not want to land it next to them.

If it turns out no one landed, no harm done, but if they did land we need to deal with them anyway.

Just a shame we have all these workers that are not able to do some of the things that could help us.
[58-5]

IBT:
Got a shock at Laz, but I knew it was a risk, when a horse came from the fog and attacked the lone warrior (3/3). Horse died and the warrior was 1/3. That allowed the 1HP horse nearby to attack, but it died. Rivers saved the day and the poor hero did not get promotion (1-0).

Many other horses come to Laz and several swords come in from behind.
15 dutch units are in sight 10 on our lands.
3 other units attack and die (4-0) [62-5].

350BC (10):
The good new for now is that Persian units at Tikal moved out of our land for some reason. The AI is always moving back and forth, so it is hard to tell if they mean to leave or what.

I can now see the town founded on the finger. I am leaving the settler fortified for ThERat to decide.

jt kills archer at Laz (1-0).
1st kills horse (2-0).
2nd kills horse at Pal (3-0).
jt kills horse at Pal and goes elite (4-0).
jt kills horse at Pal, still 2 left (5-0).
jt2 kills horse at Laz (6-0).
jt kills archer at Bon (7-0).
1st kills horse (8-0).
jt kills horse and goes elite at Copan (9-0).
Move citizen back to cow at Copan.
[71-5]

I think I have it so no one can land on a key tile at Pal on the IBT. Good luck.
Bon has a sword that is next to it and can attack the jt 2/4. I did not cover as it could put Bon at risk. You could send a unit form Laz to cover, but the only one available is the warrior and I am not sure it would be put up as the defender.

The 3/4 moved into the town and may have enough moves to reach, just not sure if you want to risk a 3/4 to try to save a 2/4? May help with the bombardment, who knows.

Archer on hill next to Lag and two horses can reach it. It now has 3 units, so should be ok. Next turn will get another unit there and 2 other finish.
 
Tomorrow I can play after you have don you turns...

by the way, I think Carthage with its powerful UU might really be an option in case we fail here

Sumeria is the strongest civ in terms of the best UU for defense. You get the the best defense per shield at least. One issue with Carthage is that the UU costs so much and I think Carthage would be similar. You need a short line of defense and even so may get overrun by sufficient numbers.

M60's game looked good that way. I wasn't sure how I felt about the number of turns played however.
 
Well I liked M60's game, but any of these starts can blow up, once the numbers get too high.

If you do not get a great location in terms of land and distance to rivals, you are at great risk.

After the start, the next big ticket is luck in leaders. I am not sure where we stand so far, but two leaders is not the best roll we could have gotten, probably not the worst.

Even if we had gotten one more sooner and had to use it on the HE, it would have been helpful. You get many times where a defenders getting a promotion would have saved it.

If we get the GLB and have some iron and or horses, we have a shot. If we lose out on the GLB, if is lights out eventually. It is not a given that we are going to get through that long, but we have a shot.

Some how Xerkse did not take advantage of the immortals in my turn, did not attack much, nor bypass Tikal. I tried to prevent those things by attacking when he had more than 2 units, but he could have done it.

Some cats could help a ton on those horses. We could ping them to either prevent retreats or bypassing defense.
 
ok, got it and will see whether this is worth playing on.

As for Carthage, the UU is expensive but a 2/3 unit early on is superb and won't die easily. This will reduce unti support as fewer units are needed.
I agree with Greebley on the number of turns played in M60's opening though.
 
The tone of some of the above posts is needlessly pessimistic. Our front-line cities are crammed with units now, which wasn't the case ten turns ago. It's hardly a question of deciding whether the game is even worth continuing.

Even if we had gotten one more sooner and had to use it on the HE, it would have been helpful. You get many times where a defenders getting a promotion would have saved it.

I know your knowledge of the game is encyclopedic, but I don't understand this. Surely the HE only affects Leader generation, not ordinary promotions?
 
NP you are correct on both counts. Sometimes, I just have a wire crossed. Most of the time I did not have more than 3 units in a threatened town and was trying to move units back and forth.

We do now have a good number in the Tikal, Pal, Copan now. A problem is that since the Wall was started awhile back, we can expect to be seeing pikes
The problem is that once you have to attack, you do not get the barracks healing benefit. The AI stopped attacking the towns and force me to attack in the open. They have many units to send, so you are always in a spot that a break through could happen.

I do feel we are in the best shape that we have been, but we do have towns all around us and lots of horses to deal with. The 30% discount makes replacements a snap for them.
 
The tone of some of the above posts is needlessly pessimistic. Our front-line cities are crammed with units now, which wasn't the case ten turns ago. It's hardly a question of deciding whether the game is even worth continuing.

I especially think if we get the GLib we will be in good shape with a good chance of getting iron
 
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