[Graphic Mod] Varietas Delectat v9.2 [civ specific unit sets]

[mamba]

Aztecs Mexico
Babylon Iraq
Celts Ireland or Scottland
Khmer Cambodia
Zulu South Africa

I agree on these (my Celts are irish)

Inca Peru
Maya Guatemala
Sumeria Kuwait

Inca could be Chile as well, as I like the Peru flag better I go with Peru too.

Maya could be Belize or El Salvador as well, heck possibly even Honduras. Out of these flags, I prefer the Honduras one, even though it is the least suitable nation

I probably will go with Sumeria as Kuwait too, it is pretty close to Iraq and there essentially is no better match (other than Iraq itself which imo is a better match for Babylon - currently I have Babylon as Syria and Sumeria as Iraq, but I do not really like that).

I will discart the Holy Roman and Byzantium, perhaps for Wallachia (Romania) and Hungary.

HRE could easily be Austria, Byzantium is tough as its location is either Ottoman or Greece, which both exist already, so Bulgaria probably is the closest country not yet included. I let them stick around as Byzantium however

The problem for me its the Vikings and the Americans/Native Americans, if the Americans can be geographicly the Native, they are not the rest.

About the Viking, I'm inclined to go with the Kalmar Union or just break them apart.

I would go with Sweden or Norway or actually both

The Natives are simply a new nation onto themselves, I go with either a US state flag or a native symbol like the Iroquois flag

 

[Ekmek]

DNA testing?

If that's the determination for what Civ you are in today's world, then why wouldn't America be English since most Americans are DNA-related to the English (and most English are DNA-related to Germans, so I guess we need to change them too).

Just to be nitpicky (white)Ameicans are:

German - 15.2%
Irish - (10.8%) (does not include those of Scots-Irish descent)
English - 8.7% (this may be a large undercount because in 1980 almost twice as many people claimed English ancestry)
"American" - 7.2% (those who did not identify any other heritage)
White Hispanic - 6.0% (primarily Spanish)
Italian - 5.6%
Polish - 3.2%
French - 3.0%
Scottish - 1.7%
Dutch - 1.6%
Norwegian - 1.6%
Scots-Irish - 1.5%
Swedish - 1.4%
Russian - 0.9%
French Canadian - 0.8%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial...d_States#Racial_makeup_of_the_U.S._population

And considering the top two it makes you wonder how that would have afftected WW2 if the makeup was like that 70 years ago!

 

[Wolfshanze]

I probably will go with Sumeria as Kuwait too, it is pretty close to Iraq and there essentially is no better match (other than Iraq itself which imo is a better match for Babylon - currently I have Babylon as Syria and Sumeria as Iraq, but I do not really like that).

I absolutely don't get your logic on that Mamba...

This is a map of Sumerian city states... please tell me which city is NOT in modern-day Iraq... pick ONE.


There is a faint outline of current modern-day states on this map... you'll note Kuwait doesn't have a single Sumerian city in it... might as well say the Sumerians are Syrian, Iranian or Saudi... those nations are just as close.

For the record, the below is Babylon... note the nearly identical location of their empire...


Sumer is IRAQI... same as Babylon... there's no arguing FACT.

Look... you guys can say modern-day Sumer is the same as Sweden in your mods for all I care... just don't try and justify it as being accurate to geography or history, because the only historical justification is a tie with Iraq.

The best Middle-East "what is it" would be "Arabia"... they use Saladin as their leader... who (more or less) was kinda a Damascus kinda guy (modern day Syria)... but a lot of folks slap the Saudi Arabian flag on the nation (self included)... but I mostly relate Saladin with Syria, and Arabs (in general) with Soviet-block equipment... even though I have them flying the Saudi flag (which would equal US equipment), I give them Soviet block equipment.

Go figure...

 

[mamba]

I absolutely don't get your logic on that Mamba...

Actually it is pretty simple, I do not want both nations to be Iraq, so I go with one which is nearby, Kuwait imo fits that bill the best (yes, Syria would be just as close, but it stretches farther away than Kuwait does).

Sumer is IRAQI... same as Babylon... there's no arguing FACT.

Right, and I do not argue fact, I say I do not want two ancient nations to be represented by one modern nation.

The best Middle-East "what is it" would be "Arabia"... they use Saladin as their leader... who (more or less) was kinda a Damascus kinda guy (modern day Syria)... but a lot of folks slap the Saudi Arabian flag on the nation (self included)... but I mostly relate Saladin with Syria, and Arabs (in general) with Soviet-block equipment... even though I have them flying the Saudi flag (which would equal US equipment), I give them Soviet block equipment.

Go figure...

Arabia = Saudi Arabia for me too, they do use US equipment in my mod (actually I do not yet match modern day equipment with what each nation actually used / uses, but I am moving in that direction)

 

[Wolfshanze]

Thing for me is Civ4 "Arabia" doesn't really mean "Saudi Arabia"... it's a simplistic term for the Arab civilization, which includes many nations (much like "Native America" isn't a specific tribe/civ either)... the root word being "Arab" which is a lot of people/places.

While a lot of folks (self-included) tie the modern flag of Saudi Arabia to "Arabia", that's an assumption by our part... the only REAL tie-in to a specific nation would be the one and only leader Firaxis gave "Arabia"... which is "Saladin".

Saladin was born in Tikrit, Iraq as son of the Kurdish chief Ayyub. He worked in the service of the Syrian ruler, Nureddin in Damascas (present-day Syria). Saladin served as second to the commander in chief of the Syrian army, his uncle Shirkuh. Shirkuh became vizier of Egypt, but died after only 2 months. Saladin then took over as vizier. Saladin became the first Ayyubid sultan of Egypt, but spent most of his time in Damascus (Syria).

So the LH for Civ4 Arabia is Saladin, who has ties to Iraq, Syria and Egypt... but in my mind is mostly a Syrian. Also, most Arab nations have gotten most of their equipment over the decades from the Soviet Union... so when I think of Saladin, I think of Syria, and when I think of Syria and most Arab nations, I think of Soviet equipment (but I fly the Saudi flag for Arabia, go figure... that doesn't make sense, but Saladin has incredibly strong ties with Syria and NONE with Saudi Arabia).

 

[mamba]

Saladin was born in Tikrit, Iraq as son of the Kurdish chief Ayyub. He worked in the service of the Syrian ruler, Nureddin in Damascas (present-day Syria). Saladin served as second to the commander in chief of the Syrian army, his uncle Shirkuh. Shirkuh became vizier of Egypt, but died after only 2 months. Saladin then took over as vizier. Saladin became the first Ayyubid sultan of Egypt, but spent most of his time in Damascus (Syria).

So the LH for Civ4 Arabia is Saladin, who has ties to Iraq, Syria and Egypt... but in my mind is mostly a Syrian.

I do not go by the where the leader lived but by what became of the empire (if there is some kind of successor) or by where it was located (if there is no successor). In this respect the former Arabia and the present Saudi-Arabia work for me.

 

[Wolfshanze]

I do not go by the where the leader lived but by what became of the empire (if there is some kind of successor) or by where it was located (if there is no successor). In this respect the former Arabia and the present Saudi-Arabia work for me.

If that's the case, more of Syria and Egypt were part of "Arabia" then "Saudi Arabia" is.

I'm not saying there's no support for using Saudia Arabia to represent modern-day "Arabia"... but there's equally as much justification to say Syria (Damascus in-particular and Syria in-general were the heart of the Arabian Empire...).

Those folks slapping the Saudi flag on "Arabia" are making an assumption at best... because one of the most important ties one can get in Civ4 is the LH... which is Saladin... who is tied with both Egypt and/but mostly Syria... you can't just discount that as irrelevant. Saladin (for all intents and purposes) is a Syrian from Damascus... the heart of the Arabian Empire... so to act like Saudi Arabia is the true decendant is a pretty big assumption... I'd say "at best", it's an equal candidate, but certainly not the only one or most logical one... I think people are getting tied-up with the word "Arabia", and not looking at all the other factors. Damascus for centuries was the true heart of the Arab world.

I admit, I use the Saudi flag in my mod too (convienent for it's "green-ness" and already made)... but there's an equal (if not stronger case) to be made for Syria being the modern day decendant of the Arab Empire.

It's the whole "Arab" thing though... trying to pin it down to one modern nation... if 500 years from now, the United States were to break-up into 50 differant nations, based on current states... and a 1,000 years from now, someone playing a game of Civ67 came out saying "United States" and somebody from the year 3,008 wanted to relate that nation to one of their "modern" states... "who does 'America' represent?!?". An equal case could be made for each of the 50 states... kinda the same with Syria, Egypt, Saudi and others.

 

[mamba]

If that's the case, more of Syria and Egypt were part of "Arabia" then "Saudi Arabia" is.

Going by the extent at Saladins age, I agree. I did not say by the location of the empire at the time of the civ leader, but by what became of the empire (unless it simply vanished).

I admit, I use the Saudi flag in my mod too (convienent for it's "green-ness" and already made)... but there's an equal (if not stronger case) to be made for Syria being the modern day decendant of the Arab Empire.

I went with the 'Arabia' in Saudi and the fact that the location is ok too.

If what keeps you from going with Syria over Saudi-Arabia is the fact that you miss a flag, well, I have one

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Seems I opened up a can of worms...

 

[Wolfshanze]

If what keeps you from going with Syria over Saudi-Arabia is the fact that you miss a flag, well, I have one

No... actually the Saudi flag is very green and goes-well with the colors of Arabia, and quite-frankly, it looks a lot more "arabic" then Syria's flag... mostly, I just fly the Saudi flag, and equip them like Syrians!

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Why not equip them like Al-Quida? After all some people have Germans represented by Nazis....Wolf I'm looking at you lol...

 

[Wolfshanze]

Why not equip them like Al-Quida? After all some people have Germans represented by Nazis....Wolf I'm looking at you lol...

Ummm... Al-Quida is a terrorist organization, not a state or a civ. Both Syria and Saudi Arabia are actual civilizations.

As for the Third Reich, it was the national government of Germany from 1933 to 1945 and was well-equipped during World War II. I have Germany equipped with whatever equipment they had at that time in civilization, and the national flag I use for them is of the German Confederation (pre-Nazi)... exactly how should I have the Civ4 German civ equipped with WWII equipment... should it all be Canadian or perhaps more like Uruguay?

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Do what you will its your mod. Its only a game after all. I was just kidding. .

On the other hand...since Iran(Persia) funds Hezbollah you could use them in your game as a Modern Infantry(maybe a new unit catagory, Guerilla Fighter) unit of some sort, provided you find a graphic for them.

In Civ3 there was a Guerilla unit.

 

[Chuggi]

Hi Wolf

DNA testing point to Kuwaitians being more Sumerian than Iraquis. Same way as the Khmer amount for about 80% of the the Cambojan ppl and are very less on Thailand or Laos.

I'd say

Khmer Cambodia
Inca Peru
Aztecs Mexico
Maya Guatemala
Babylon Iraq
Sumeria Kuwait
Zulu South Africa
Celts Ireland or Scottland

I will discart the Holy Roman and Byzantium, perhaps for Wallachia (Romania) and Hungary.

The problem for me its the Vikings and the Americans/Native Americans, if the Americans can be geographicly the Native, they are not the rest.

About the Viking, I'm inclined to go with the Kalmar Union or just break them apart.


On a different note, about Persia / Iran, do you guys know the Zulfiqar...
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_249.shtml

It seems we think alike. I'm going to get rid of HRE and the Byzantines, and maybe include Poland at a later point. I'm going to go with Norway for the Vikings.

Also, what do you think about merging the Native Americans with the United States? It sounds pretty wrong but I've been considering it, because the US was solely inhabited by Native Americans prior to the Europeans arriving, and I've already implemented all of the American ancient units (and some medieval units) to look Native American rather than European.

 

[Wolfshanze]

It seems we think alike. I'm going to get rid of HRE and the Byzantines, and maybe include Poland at a later point. I'm going to go with Norway for the Vikings.

Yeah... I already ditched the HRE for Austria some time ago, and (as we speak) just added-in Poland to my mod. A couple of popular directions the mod community is doing. Always hated Germany and the HRE sharing city names from Germany!

Also, what do you think about merging the Native Americans with the United States? It sounds pretty wrong but I've been considering it, because the US was solely inhabited by Native Americans prior to the Europeans arriving, and I've already implemented all of the American ancient units (and some medieval units) to look Native American rather than European.

Actually, that's not a bad idea... kinda cool (sorta)... but since the Native and US populations overlapped one-another for awhile at what year do you stop using native and go caucasian?

Doing this might also be rough on "real Earth" scenario makers (leaving fewer civs to fill-out a huge continent).

 

[asioasioasio]

Sumer is IRAQI... same as Babylon... there's no arguing FACT.

True - another doubled civilization in civ,
and there's so many missing civs

The same with HRE wich is in fact just Germany (and also Celts/France, Natives/America) - good idea with replacing it with Austria and Adding Poland!

It seems we think alike. I'm going to get rid of HRE and the Byzantines, and maybe include Poland at a later point.

BTW Wolfschanze or Chugginator. Do you plan to make some modern infantries for Poland in 1-2 next weeks? I would update Polish Empire soon and paratrooper or your beuatiful infantry unit using Bazooka (AT version of 1939 infantry) would be real cool.

 

[Ermelinho]

Yeah... I already ditched the HRE for Austria some Always hated Germany and the HRE sharing city names from Germany!

i did that, too. but what´s bothering me is, that HRE kind of shares the name with rome, rather than steeling city names. there are so many cities in the game , that appear more than once. constanitnopel -> istanbul e.g. and think of all the roman cities like londinium -> london, lutetia -> paris etc. But i forbear from renaming rome to italy. nor do i i like south africa for zululand, because i don´t like geographic terms in nation names.

but i renamed:

atztecs - Mexico (that´s how they called themselves, so this is a real good choice)
holy rome - Austria (i gave it the cities of austria-hungary)
mayaland - Mayab (which means: "land of the maya". so that fits)
Inca - Peru
Celts - Britain
Khmer - cambodia
Ottomans- Turkey

no renames for ancient city-states like babylon, sumer, rome, carthage etc.

 

[Wolfshanze]

BTW Wolfschanze or Chugginator. Do you plan to make some modern infantries for Poland in 1-2 next weeks? I would update Polish Empire soon and paratrooper or your beuatiful infantry unit using Bazooka (AT version of 1939 infantry) would be real cool.

I already have a Polish Modern Infantry (WWII timeframe) in the Wolfshanze Mod...

SHAZAM!!!

 

[Von Salza]

http://www.scramble.nl/airforces.htm

Just found this site, between other things it has all the symbols for the jet aircrafts...might be useful for some of you...

 

[Chuggi]

Actually, that's not a bad idea... kinda cool (sorta)... but since the Native and US populations overlapped one-another for awhile at what year do you stop using native and go caucasian?

Well probably around the 1500-1600's. I will probably use unit diversity for units around that time period (musketmen, grenadiers and early cavalry will represent both the white Americans and the Native Americans) and then after that point I will use a few different skin tones on American units to represent their multicultural society.

True - another doubled civilization in civ,
and there's so many missing civs

The same with HRE wich is in fact just Germany (and also Celts/France, Natives/America) - good idea with replacing it with Austria and Adding Poland!

I prefer to think of the Celts as separate to the French Celts (Gauls). The Celts on mainland Europe were mixed with Germanic tribes and eventually became separate from the others in the UK. The Celts are becoming Ireland in CDM, anyway.

BTW Wolfschanze or Chugginator. Do you plan to make some modern infantries for Poland in 1-2 next weeks? I would update Polish Empire soon and paratrooper or your beuatiful infantry unit using Bazooka (AT version of 1939 infantry) would be real cool.

Can do! I still have an unused Polish paratrooper that I couldn't get to work with the animations, so I can rig it to use antitank animations instead. Or would it look better with the default Polish infantry model?