Great Person Lists

[Dale]

Yamamoto Isoroku - Surprised he isn't already listed.

He isn't listed because he's a Civ Leader (he was actually taken out of Civ4's GG list).

 

[c0d5579]

He isn't listed because he's a Civ Leader (he was actually taken out of Civ4's GG list).

That too is a decision I disagree with - Yamamoto wasn't the moving force behind the government, an honor that falls to a series of army officers culminating in Tojo. If you're going to write a list of period "great generals," Yamamoto's pretty much a must-have. However, since I lack the coding skills to do anything like this, that's worth about the paper it's written on.

Now, back to something more constructive...

Generals:
Alfred Travers Harris
Theodore Roosevelt Junior
George C. Marshall
Ernest King
Frank D. Merrill

Engineers:
Clarence Johnson
Frank Lloyd Wright

Prophets:
Alfred Rosenberg
Andrei Zhdanov
Nikolai Bukharin (A stretch, but the Purge didn't happen until 1937)
Pius XII

Spies:
Lavrenti Beria (Could also be a merchant or an engineer - he wound up in charge of a LOT of stuff, but his most famous accomplishments were at the NKVD)
Nikolai Yezhov
Genrikh Yagoda
Richard Sorge
Leopold Trepper (Controller of the original Red Orchestra network)
Ian Fleming (Average work as a spy, but leaving him out seems criminal)

I've bothered including a list of prophets as the people who spread the values-system of their given ideology. With the exception of Norman Rockwell, who would rightly be classed as a Great Artist, but so perfectly captures the "American Way of Life" that he could arguably be called a prophet of "Americanism," all of the ones I've listed have been people who argued loudly for a given ideology. Rockwell's arguments were on canvas, but were arguments nonetheless, which is why I added him.

The problem is that the generals during the war period really overshadowed everyone else, and it's easy to start getting into division-level or lower commanders, as I did in a couple cases (Truscott, Darby) on the list I added, based on whether their actions became textbook how-to cases. It's slightly harder to build a good list of scientists, because they're easy to pick from, but engineers especially get shortchanged, since, let's be honest, how many of us know off the tops of our heads the chief engineer behind, say, Taipei 101? I know I can't, and engineering's supposed to be my field of choice.

It would be easy to assemble at least a short list of cultural figures, but you're handling artists differently; it's actually a novel approach that requires considerably more work than throwing out names, and I'm intrigued by the idea of handling "great people" as "great works" instead. After all, there's nothing historically inevitable that says that Einstein had to be a scientist; he could have remained a patent clerk forever. Relativity, on the other hand, was going to be found.

A note on a few of the generals - A couple of the generals I've listed either spent the war in staff positions (Marshall, King) but were enormously influential on the military policy of their side, or never rose higher than equivalent to assistant division CG, but developed rather heroic reputations in those posts (Darby, TR Jr.). Also, a correction - Galland served in JG 26, danger of posting before looking up references.

 

[Dale]

That too is a decision I disagree with - Yamamoto wasn't the moving force behind the government, an honor that falls to a series of army officers culminating in Tojo.

You may not agree with the decision to have Yamamoto as the leader of Japan in the official release, but I had to agree with Firaxis when they said no Hirohito or Tojo in the game.

If you're going to write a list of period "great generals," Yamamoto's pretty much a must-have. However, since I lack the coding skills to do anything like this, that's worth about the paper it's written on.

It's easy:
1. Use explorer to browse to \Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\The Road to War\Assets\XML\Units\
2. Right-click the file CIV4UnitInfos.xml and click Open With and choose notepad.
3. Doesn't matter if you don't understand anything else, but essentially, each section of this file defines a unit type (eg Settler, GG, GProphet, etc). The first couple of unit types are settler, worker, workboat.
4. Next come the Great People. One part of a unit type is called "UniqueNames". This is where names are listed. Take a look at Great Artist definition to see a list of names.
5. Just follow the same for the other GP types.

 

[c0d5579]

Not quite what I meant, I was thinking more along the lines of Theodore Roosevelt's statement on critics. I have no doubt that I could tinker with the mod - did plenty of it with Civ 2 and even Civ 3 during my brief stint playing it, and the basic values can't be that hard to modify for the game to be as customizable as it is. I do, however, have my reservations about trying anything more substantial than that.

I understand about Firaxis being nervous about Hitler and Tojo as leaders, not so sure about Hirohito, though I disagree with it. Don't even get me started on the entire Stalin/Hitler thing - it's a debate that too many people have gone over already, so not much I could add.

Now - as for the great person list... THAT I can do, or at least prod at repeatedly. Nothing drives me nuts more than seeing "Great Engineer was born in London! (English)" every few minutes. First off, why am I not getting those engineers, and second, who in the world names their child "Great Engineer?" Pretty much dooms them to becoming a liberal arts student.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

I've checked out Gaius Octavius's civ-specific GP's, and quite frankly it would be a nightmare for this mod. Each civ requires a separate UU to initiate for each GP type. That's 30-odd civs each with UU's for each GP type.

Until a better solution is made, that's not gunna happen sorry.

Old news, my friend. That is now done and past.

We now have a completely Python renaming system, and in fact I will be using it in my updated WWII in the Pacific mod, so you can now have civ-specific people in RtW, too (as it should be).

 

[bazooka82]

add Seymon Timoshenko. Soviet general, served in Russo-finnish war and assorted battles on eastern front

 

[Metz]

Oskar Schindler as Industrialist

 

[Fin Imperial]

Perhaps Erik Heinrichs as Great General. An old Finnish jaeger and commanded Finnish defenses in Karelia.

 

[bazooka82]

For Prophets/propagandists:
Frank Capra-Director of Why we Fight
Leni Riefenstahl-Director of Triumph of the Will