Great Quotes III: Source and Context are Key

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"What's past is prologue"
-William Shakespeare, line 253, scene 1, act 1, The Tempest

"Resting on your laurels is as dangerous as resting when you are walking in the snow. You doze off and die in your sleep."
-Ludwig Wittgenstein, p. 35e, Culture and Value (translation by Peter Winch)
 
"Across the world, many cities are likely to lose inhabitants faster than buildings. To plan for shrinkage is to admit that people will not come back, which sounds like an admission of failure. But it may be a greater failure to seek fruitlessly to hold on to the past. Cities rise and fall, sometimes several times, changing shape as they go. It is part of their magic."
-"Rus in urbe redux", The Economist
:lol:
"I know what you think. I reallx do. You think city shrinkage is a huge problem in so many ways. And I understand how it may feel like that, look like that to you, in every way. But here is why you are wrong:"
*erratically moves is arms and hands, trying to look mysterious*
*then hisses*
"because magic" *while opening his hands*
*nods and smiles very pleased with himself*
 
"For wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder"
-Socrates as quoted by Plato in Theaetetus (translation by Benjamin Jowett)
 
"For wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder"
-Socrates as quoted by Plato in Theaetetus (translation by Benjamin Jowett)

:thumbsup:

And (iirc) the passages surrounding this are about etymology as well in part (i think Socrates mentions the term 'Iris' (not Isis ;) ), as 'awe'). The point in general is that having questions in your mind is the only basis for seeking knowledge on anything, and Socrates argues clearly in that dialogue again that 'the only thing certain is that you cannot change something you do not regard as there, or as a thing able to change'.

As i personally noted in some threads about this dialogue, the Theaetetos is cool in that it has no central theme or question it is examining (supposedly they try to examine what 'science' or 'scientific knowledge' (epistemonike gnosis) is), and so it refers to a number of issues, such as views by Protagoras, Eleatic position on Oneness, the nature of language and the non-finite nature of examination of any manner we can think of, etc.

In contrast the dialogue Parmenides is hugely centered on what dialectic is.
 
I assume you've read said dialogue. Can you tell me about the Greek term that was translated into "wonder"? I'd like to know how it's different from the English word in terms of meanings and implications.

I will go check it, but as noted iirc it was 'Iris', which meant 'awe',

Oh, right. Sorry about that. Just skimmed your post there. "Awe" is just one sense of the word "wonder".
 
I assume you've read said dialogue. Can you tell me about the Greek term that was translated into "wonder"? I'd like to know how it's different from the English word in terms of meanings and implications.

I will go check it, but as noted iirc it was 'Iris', which meant 'awe', and is a term not used in current Greek. Brb on that ;)

And back:

(apparently from passage 155d of Theaetetos. The term for wonder used there is Thauma - same term used now in greek as well, it means both miracle and something causing awe, but not horrific afaik. And Iris is argued in the same passage to be the child of Thauma/wonder)

Socrates to Theaetetos said:
Θεόδωρος γάρ, ὦ φίλε, φαίνεται οὐ κακῶς τοπάζειν περὶ τῆς φύσεώς σου. μάλα γὰρ φιλοσόφου τοῦτο τὸ πάθος, τὸ θαυμάζειν: οὐ γὰρ ἄλλη ἀρχὴ φιλοσοφίας ἢ αὕτη, καὶ ἔοικεν ὁ τὴν Ἶριν Θαύμαντος ἔκγονον φήσας οὐ κακῶς γενεαλογεῖν.

Which in english would likely be something such as: "Theodoros (notable geometrician, teacher of Theaetetos and another person speaking in the dialogue) seems to be not wrong at all to speak so highly of your value (Thaeatetos' value), for indeed 'wonder' is the main passion of a philosopher: there is no other foundation (arche in the original) of philosophy than this (to wonder), and he who said that Iris was the one having been born by Wonder was not at all bad at writing the genealogies (i suppose he means Hesiod)" :)

As for Iris itself, it has a number of meanings:

-The colorful part of the human eye
-The rainbow's effect of displaying color tones in the sky
-(mythology) a lesser deity, messenger of the gods, a harpy
- (and, apparently) a byword in Socrates' time for 'philosophy' itself (?) (i recall this being a comment in the text, and also following from context, but i am not 100% sure).

(ps: yes i read the dialogue fairly recently too, it was one of the three dialogues/works by Plato which was part of my philo program in the libraries, and will be next year too).
 
William Butler Yeats (1865-1939)

THE SECOND COMING

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
 
Well golly gee, I wonder whose fault that is.
"We have in Singapore intellectual conformity in place of intellectual inquisitiveness and the sum total is a depressing climate of intellectual sterility."
-Goh Keng Swee (second Deputy Prime Minister of Singapore, member of the ruling People's Action Party), as quoted by C.M. Turnbull in p.327, A History of Modern Singapore

Putting capitalism to work.
"The government has to be the planner and the mobilizer of the economic effort, but the free enterprise system, correctly nurtured and adroitly handled, can serve as a powerful and versatile instrument of economic growth."
-Goh Keng Swee, as quoted in the 20 August 1972 issue of The Asian
 
I know this is a few days late, but I was traveling. Anyway, happy belated Independence Day!

Spoiler :
The Unanimous Declaration of the Thirteen United States of America

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. -Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of representation in the legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved representative houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the people at large for their exercise; the state remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavored to prevent the population of these states; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of lands.

He has obstructed the administration of justice, by refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers.

He has made judges dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, standing armies without the consent of our legislature.

He has affected to render the military independent of and superior to civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his assent to their acts of pretended legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment for any murders which they should commit on the inhabitants of these states:

For cutting off our trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing taxes on us without our consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of trial by jury:

For transporting us beyond seas to be tried for pretended offenses:

For abolishing the free system of English laws in a neighboring province, establishing therein an arbitrary government, and enlarging its boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule in these colonies:

For taking away our charters, abolishing our most valuable laws, and altering fundamentally the forms of our governments:

For suspending our own legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated government here, by declaring us out of his protection and waging war against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burned our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow citizens taken captive on the high seas to bear arms against their country, to become the executioners of their friends and brethren, or to fall themselves by their hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian savages, whose known rule of warfare, is undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these oppressions we have petitioned for redress in the most humble terms: our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have we been wanting in attention to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace friends.

We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare, that these united colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

New Hampshire: Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton

Massachusetts: John Hancock, Samual Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry

Rhode Island: Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery

Connecticut: Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott

New York: William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris

New Jersey: Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark

Pennsylvania: Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross

Delaware: Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean

Maryland: Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton

Virginia: George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton

North Carolina: William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn

South Carolina: Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton

Georgia: Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton
 
shhhh don't tell the economists
 
"To look at people in capitalist society and conclude that human nature is egoism, is like looking at people in a factory where pollution is destroying their lungs and saying that it is human nature to cough."

Andrew Collier

Great quote.
 
"To look at people in capitalist society and conclude that human nature is egoism, is like looking at people in a factory where pollution is destroying their lungs and saying that it is human nature to cough."

Andrew Collier

Well why is the society there in that form in the first place? Was buddha actually an egomaniac in the first place? From the earliest "Look on my works..." it's all been about propagation and imaginary dong extensions.
 
Well why is the society there in that form in the first place? Was buddha actually an egomaniac in the first place? From the earliest "Look on my works..." it's all been about propagation and imaginary dong extensions.

Society is capitalist because of recent narrow historical conditions, and it outcompeted every other system.
 
Society is capitalist because of recent narrow historical conditions, and it outcompeted every other system.

hehehe the capitalist system outcompeted every other system :goodjob:
 
Society is capitalist because of recent narrow historical conditions, and it outcompeted every other system.

Society before wasn't anything better. (regarding ego)
 
hehehe the capitalist system outcompeted every other system :goodjob:
:mischief:

Society before wasn't anything better. (regarding ego)
For better or worse fewer people exercised them. Modern egos are hypertrophied, because competitive advantage generally demands a strong ego.
 
For better or worse fewer people exercised them. Modern egos are hypertrophied, because competitive advantage generally demands a strong ego.


Because they lacked the opportunity. When you have your basic needs taken care of it is only natural to turn inwards and look into ways of satisfying ego by external validation.
 
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe... Yet, clumsily or smoothly, the world, it seems, progresses and will progress.

H.G. "don't call me Orson" Wells
from the "Outline of History" Ch 41
 
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