Great Quotes III: Source and Context are Key
- Thread starter Borachio
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r16
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ı miss the days of Zheng He :
"When the eunuch admiral Zheng He sailed from Nanjing for Sri Lanka in 1405 he led nearly three hundred vessels. There were tankers carrying drinking water and huge “Treasure Ships” with advanced rudders, watertight compartments, and elaborate signaling devices. Among his 27,000 sailors were 180 doctors and pharmacists. By contrast, when Christopher Columbus sailed from Cadiz in 1492, he led just ninety men in three ships. His biggest hull displaced barely one-thirtieth as much water as Zheng’s; at eighty-five feet long it was shorter than Zheng’s mainmast, and barely twice as long as his rudder. Columbus had no freshwater tankers and no real doctors. Zheng had magnetic compasses and knew enough about the Indian Ocean to fill a twenty-one-foot-long sea chart; Columbus rarely knew where he was, let alone where he was going."
though ı should have really noted the source down ...
"When the eunuch admiral Zheng He sailed from Nanjing for Sri Lanka in 1405 he led nearly three hundred vessels. There were tankers carrying drinking water and huge “Treasure Ships” with advanced rudders, watertight compartments, and elaborate signaling devices. Among his 27,000 sailors were 180 doctors and pharmacists. By contrast, when Christopher Columbus sailed from Cadiz in 1492, he led just ninety men in three ships. His biggest hull displaced barely one-thirtieth as much water as Zheng’s; at eighty-five feet long it was shorter than Zheng’s mainmast, and barely twice as long as his rudder. Columbus had no freshwater tankers and no real doctors. Zheng had magnetic compasses and knew enough about the Indian Ocean to fill a twenty-one-foot-long sea chart; Columbus rarely knew where he was, let alone where he was going."
though ı should have really noted the source down ...
Lexicus
Deity
"I fear the plutocracy of wealth, I respect the aristocracy of learning, but I thank God for the democracy of the heart that makes it possible for every human being to do something to make life worth living while he lives and the world better for his existence in it."
William Jennings Bryan
William Jennings Bryan
Hamilton321
Prince
"My features form with a change in the weather."
-Tears for Fears
-Tears for Fears
jackelgull
An aberration of nature
“The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.”
-Plato
-Plato
Agree
There was a big propaganda war going on as well in WW2
Fake news is not an invention of today
This article from 1941, "Churchill's Lie Factory" of Goebbels, from his own book "Die Zeit ohne Beispiel" is a good example:
“One should not as a rule reveal one’s secrets, since one does not know if and when one may need them again. The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.”
Thefabricated or supposed full quote of Goebbels was:
"“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Compare that with the factual lines in Mein Kampf of Hitler where Hitler outlines the effectiveness of the Big Lie:
“In this they [the Jews] proceeded on the sound principle that the magnitude of a lie always contains a certain factor of credibility, since the great masses of the people in the very bottom of their hearts tend to be corrupted rather than consciously and purposely evil, and that, therefore, in view of the primitive simplicity of their minds, they more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a little one, since they themselves lie in little things, but would be ashamed of lies that were too big. Such a falsehood will never enter their heads, and they will not be able to believe in the possibility of such monstrous effrontery and infamous misrepresentation in others.…” (p. 231 of the Manheim translation)
What worries me is that some of today's autocratic leaders seems to have learned a lot from propaganda techniques.
Much more than many of the voters.
r16
not deity
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fear of getting too big ... Case Study : Japan . Some bunch of Koreans driving roundeyes off islands nearby and making a tiny Civ or something . If adjacent on land , Japan is no trouble for the Middle Kingdom ; just send a million or two of troops and make them kowtow . But there were those two typhoons that sank invasion fleets twice . The thing to admit here is that having invented paper , the Chinese are quite prone to record things that happened and read them a couple of centuries later when they become relevant . So Japan becomes a case of let live and live . In awe of the Chinese culture , so hardly a threat , as the Chinese see the world around them .
then Zheng He and the massive fleets . Sent out to see what's around . Meant to raise vassals ; to act as a trip wire . In the truest Zheng He stuff , the Chinese are suspecting the Europeans might be shaking off their long slumber . In full contact with the Muslims , the Chinese know the Europeans stink , are hungry , numerous and have no respect whatsoever for culture , culture as defined by the Chinese or the Muslims . All the way to Africa , and no Europeans in sight . And Muslims have given up attempts invading China , ı don't know , since 750s ?
Zheng He says China could colonize ... Middle Kingdom confident of its superiorities , as proven by those voyages , foresees massive expansion . Any empire worth its name would assimilate its people and that massive expansion will mean in a couple of decades or centuries , the overseas possessions will see themselves worthy of "conquering" China . With a million or two of troops on the high seas ... Yeah , they could have been brought to their senses , but then the fickleness of the sea . All those obviously smart officials might get themselves drowned in some typhoon , right ? Better stay on dry land ... China is big enough anyhow .
then China's primary strategic threat is the nomadic horseman ; and history kinda shows the nomads were perfectly capable of copying the Chinese whenever it counted for something . This means a full scale Barbarian invasion and all those Confician scholars would have to spend a century or two to make all the invaders Chinese . So right here the connection to official history ; not profitable enough in view of the risks ... A decision all the European historians laugh at , because let me see , they stink and started reading like a millenia after the Chinese ...
Another way to summarise the Zheng He trips is:
- The big Plague 1330-1350 devastating population and economy/trade from East to far West
- China recovers and wants to make clear it is powerfull again and wants to know first hand how things are abroad.
- Zeng He expeditions 1403 start expedition
- 1430: Impression on other civs has been made, recon is done and other issues take priority
Thorvald of Lym
A Little Sketchy
"No doubt I am in some sense a citizen of the world. But I believe with Thomas Jefferson that one of the chief duties of a citizen is to be a nuisance to the government of his state. As there is no world state, I cannot do this. On the other hand, I can be, and am, a nuisance to the government of India, which has the merit of permitting a good deal of criticism, though it reacts to it rather slowly. I also happen to be proud of being a citizen of India, which is a lot more diverse than Europe, let alone the U.S.A, the U.S.S.R or China, and thus a better model for a possible world organisation. It may of course break up, but it is a wonderful experiment. So, I want to be labeled as a citizen of India."
— J.B.S. Haldane
— J.B.S. Haldane
Paul in Saudi
Emperor
"Anyone can deal with victory. Only the mighty can bear defeat!"
A. Hitler.
"The Hitler Book" loc. 1866
A. Hitler.
"The Hitler Book" loc. 1866
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Ironic, really, that his whole movement was an extended hissy-fit over losing the first war.
GoodSarmatian
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Not as ironic as poisoning his dog and shooting himself.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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Lexicus
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