Greatest traitor in your nations (or anyone else’s) history?

[FearlessLeader2]

South America's greatest traitor was the thoroughly scabby and in most other ways detestable Che Guevara, Butcher and Enslaver.

For the US, I'd say it was a tie between Jefferson Davis, and William Jefferson Clinton. One led the Secession, the other gave his countries advanced missile technology and advanced nuclear weapon technology to the Chinese in exchange for campaign contributions funnelled through a California Bhuddist temple.

For England, I'd go with a traitor of their own making, Benjamin Franklin. The fools. He could have been, and up until a very unfortunate session of Parliment was, their most ardent supporter and his king's most loyal subject. All talk of reconciliation ended that fateful day, and he spent most of the war in France, funding the Revolution almost single-handedly. (While he was at it, he advanced scientific progress by leaps and bounds, not in least part by putting other great minds together.) Rue, Brittannia!

 

[Verbose]

For England, I'd go with a traitor of their own making, Benjamin Franklin. The fools. He could have been, and up until a very unfortunate session of Parliment was, their most ardent supporter and his king's most loyal subject. All talk of reconciliation ended that fateful day, and he spent most of the war in France, funding the Revolution almost single-handedly. (While he was at it, he advanced scientific progress by leaps and bounds, not in least part by putting other great minds together.) Rue, Brittannia!

He would sit around in the Café Procope (est. 1689) and doodle at the constitution, lucky sod!

 

[Terje]

If we're using the word "greatest" in a positive meaning for a change, I'd say that one of the greatest "traitors" of modern times is dr. Konrad Adenauer - the first Chancellor of Bundes Republik Deutschland.

He didn't reall betray his country, but the way I've understood it, he wasn't very highly thought of right after WWII, when he advocated that Germany should stop fighting the West, and join them instead. The Social Democratic leader in the western control zones of Germany at that time certainly percieved Adenauer as a traitor...

 

[Verbose]

I like that kind of spin on thing — 'heroic traitors', people who had the guts to stop stupid or insane things in the face of conformity.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

If we're using the word "greatest" in a positive meaning for a change, I'd say that one of the greatest "traitors" of modern times is dr. Konrad Adenauer - the first Chancellor of Bundes Republik Deutschland.

He didn't reall betray his country, but the way I've understood it, he wasn't very highly thought of right after WWII, when he advocated that Germany should stop fighting the West, and join them instead. The Social Democratic leader in the western control zones of Germany at that time certainly percieved Adenauer as a traitor...

Good idea, wrong chancellor .
Adenauer wasn't really heroic. He just was a bit francophile, very obstinate, and in a safe position as mayor of Cologne.

The really heroic traitor in the German history is Willy Brandt, who not only had the guts to actively fight the Nazi regime, but with the kotau at Warsaw also accepted the German responsibility for the Nazi massacres (read: "It were the Germans, not some Nazis who forced us to do it.").
And needless to say, he was called a traitor because of that by his political enemies - including Adenauer - for his whole life.

 

[evil potato]

I was thinking Lester B. Pierson cuz he retired our old british flag and brought in one of our own.

I was also thinking Pierre Trudeau, didn't he give Western Canada the finger and alienate all provinces from Ontario & Quebec.

Founder of the Bloc Quebecois (Can't remember his name right now), wanting to separate Quebec as it's own nation.

You got to be kidding right??? Well if you ask the 49% of us that voted Yes in the referendum, of course we wont consider the bloc as traitor. Defending our rights in Ottawa sure is wrong, right?

But you sure are right about Trudeau. No other political figure as ever been hated as much as him, turning he's back on Quebec, forcing us to accept the constitution, and they even renamed lately the airport of Montreal the Pierre Elliot Trudeau Airport. I mean OMFG.....

 

[evil potato]

i would say that perhaps some view Riel as a hero, since he was fighting for his people, the Metis...

yep damn right. Maybe you guys should come in quebec for some history lessons, ours seems different then from the rest of canada

 

[Communisto]

I was thinking Lester B. Pierson cuz he retired our old british flag and brought in one of our own.

I was also thinking Pierre Trudeau, didn't he give Western Canada the finger and alienate all provinces from Ontario & Quebec.

Founder of the Bloc Quebecois (Can't remember his name right now), wanting to separate Quebec as it's own nation.

what the hell is wrong with you? Thank god we got that bloody union jack out. The Bloc aren't traitors, although i dissagree with them on some points, but they have the right to voice their opinions.
And atleast treudeau had the balls to change things, look at our present system in government: EVERYONE sucks. Wow, a loyalist, stand back everyone, it may bite.

EDIT: evil potatoe, you are a good man. I love you Quebecois. Yes i also view riel as a freedom fighter and am proud to say I defended his cause and the cause of the fenians in the raids and the french in the seven years war in school, much to the disgust of my history teacher

 

[antonio]

Iv got to mentoin the nobles who desert the scotish forces at the battle of Falkirk.Come on for an independent Scotland.

 

[antonio]

Also the persians who left there own knig Darius for the Greeks to get and impale the persian punishment for traitors although i dont see how he was a traitor myself.Just because his genrals couldnt defeat the greatest milatry mind of all time.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

Guy Fawkes deserves a mention. Trying to blow up Parliament and the King with it. He had a gang of followers though, Thomas de Winter I think being one of them. He was hung, drawn and quartered for what he did.

Wayne Rooney also

 

[Eino]

Gustaf IV was the real traitor when Sweden lost Fínland in 1809. He joined the wrong alliances (England) due to his personal hate against Napoleon (he thought Napoleon was anti-christ!!) and due to an unrealistic view of Swedens military power. Allying against the superpowers Napoleon - Russia, neglecting the required improvements of finnish defence and a most questionable defence strategy were the true reasons for the hopeless battle. Further, most officers based in Finland (also many in Sweden) were convinced that the battle was hopleless and that conditions under Russia could actually be better than under a Sweden that had an incompetent king and was getting poorer and poorer.

After the war many officers were supposed to be condemned to death (Jägerhorn, Carl Gripenberg, Henrik Gripenberg, Cronstedt etc.), but their faith was merely to become scapegoats. Gustav IV was forced to abdicate after the war due to the dissatisfaction with his rule. Finland received significant authonmy (as promised during the beginning of the war) under Russian rule and prospered significantly.

 

[craig9897]

Malinche.
What exactly was she thinking? She saw Cortez's intentions, yet went right on driving a few continents into disaster.

 

[craig9897]

From my own country, USA: Current President Bush. A coward , a traitor, a buffoon. He is a pathetic excuse for a human being.

 

[Eino]

Gustav IV was the real traitor in the Swedish - Russian war in 1808-1809. He hated Napoleon (though he was anti-christ and that his own mission was to stand against Napoleon) and therefor refused to ally with the superpowers France - Russia. Further he neglected the development of the finnish defence almost entirely, kept the lion part of the Swedish troops in Sweden to hedge against a french/danish invasion and formulated a war plan which lowered morale even further.

The russians occupied Finland easily. Morale was low as the officers did not believe in the support from Sweden and where convinced that Russia would once again conquer Finland easily and let Finland suffer. The fortresses Svartholm and Sveaborg surrendered rapidly as did all the German fortresses during the Napoleon wars (the era of fortresses had come to it's end).

As always a desperate hunt for scapegoats started when the army retrieted and many officers where condemned to death for not obeying the royal order of fighting to the last man. Ironicly the same men who claimed death penalty for those not obeying the king later forced the same king (Gustav IV) to abdicate and leave for exile.

After the war Finland prospered and received significant authonomy under Russian rule - as the Russians had promised. Most finns rapidly swor the Russian emperor loyalty whereas the Swedes continued their manhunt for traitors.

 

[Panzaman!]

Great Traitors for me are these:
From America:
Aldrich Ames CIA, and his wife sold secrets to Soviets

Iyamn Faris truck Driver that was plotted with Al qaedato destroy Brooklyn Bridge
Robert Hassen counterintelligence agent, who sold top secrets to the Soviet Union for two decades

Earl Edwin Pitts (FBI) arrested 1996, secrets to Soviets

Ronald Grecula, was arrested in the United States as an American citizen who was working with Al-Qaeda to build a bomb and deliver it to them.

Christopher Boyce, Andrew Daulton Lee arrested for selling secrets to Soviets

From other parts:

Ephialtes, who betrayed the Spartan king Leonidas at the Battle of Thermopylae in 480 BC.

Alcibiades Athenian turncoat who aided Sparta in the Pelopponnessian War.

In south america Che Guevara is a hero(Peru, Chile,Argentina,Venezuela) you can see many people with Che T-shirts.
Here we consider Fidel Castro the traitor instead of Che he was just a guerrilla Leader and an icon used by Fidel.

 

[Dr. Yoshi]

George W. Bush for betraying his oath to preserve, protect, and defend the US Constitution. Instead he has been tearing away at it bit by bit.

 

[Che Guava]

For Canada, I think Louis Riel is probably the most famous (though considered a patriot to many). I can think of a more recent one: Nicholas Ribic. Born in Alberta of Serbian descent, he left for Bosnia in the mid-nineties to join the serbian army, where he took a canadian peacekeeper hostage, used him as a human shield, tied him to a lightning pole. The kidnapped soldier was released after 24 hours unharmed, but still a pretty reprehensible thing to do...

 

[Che Guava]

Panzaman!: What exactly did Castro do to make him a traitor? I mean, I can understand if you have problems with the way he conducts business in Cuba, but I can't think of any instances of betrayal...

 

[jonatas]

For Canada, I think Louis Riel is probably the most famous (though considered a patriot to many).

Yeah, Riel was standing up for his people. I don't think the label of traitor fits him accurately IMO.