Robert Can't
Éponine
Yep, completely right about Englishness I just had absolutely no idea what to Arabic
Greecemod: Not a Byzwank, Promise (EU4 althist mod creation/discussion thread)
- Thread starter SouthernKing
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SouthernKing
crickety cricket
Albion maybe? That sounds like it could be vaguely Arabic already. Or London or some local Celtic tribe if all else fails.
And there goes the last vestiges of TE's Rome idea
RIP in peace.
Sorry
Your German setup remains intact though
and I'll try to use as many of your names as possible. Also, didn't you say at one point you wanted to do North Africa? That part of the world remains pretty much untouched at this point.
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It doesn't have to be Arabic. They are Celts, so you could use a Celtish name.
Krzowwh
King
I think Albiyun should be a good variation, as a possible Arabic transcription of a Greek transcription of a Celtic name.
Also, we could have a surviving Ba-Shu speaking state in Sichuan or a Tibetan-influenced kingdom or anything really, since Sichuan was somehow a mildly attractive place for exiled refugees.
Also, we could have a surviving Ba-Shu speaking state in Sichuan or a Tibetan-influenced kingdom or anything really, since Sichuan was somehow a mildly attractive place for exiled refugees.
SouthernKing
crickety cricket
Certainly, but I like the idea of at least some of them having Arabized versions of Latin or Celtic names (if there's a ruling family in France named the Qusayyads then this makes the most sense I feel) to reflect a sort of Arabized Celtic culture that formed, with the "pure" Celts keeping "pure" Celtic names if that makes sense.
Edit: or even within Islam, you could make a cultural division between Arabized and non-Arabized Celts/Latins. I decided to do something:
-Arabized (i.e. Islamic Spain): ?13, ?15, 16, 17, 21, 22, 24, 25, 52
-Non-Arabized (but still Muslim) but with Arabized Ruling Class (i.e. Medieval Northern India): 9, 12, ?13, 14, ?15, 18, ?19, ?20, 23
-Completely Non-Arabized but still Islamic (i.e. Indonesia): 6, 10, ?19, ?20, 26
-Non-Muslim but has Muslim Provinces: 7, 11, 27, 31, 32
IMO the Muslim/Pagan divide should roughly follow the French/German (or Gallic/Germanic) divide so the western ~1/3 of both 31 and 32 would be Muslim.
Also I think that the Celts would have been partly Latinized before any Arabization (though they're still pretty clearly Celts) which explains Terran's use of Latin(ized) names for some of these.
Also unrelated, but a certain someone thinks that there should be Hellenic Norway. So I propose there be at least one Hellenic province in Norway (38), maybe in the northwest somewhere. And if Norway gets either an atrociously horrible (1/1/1 or worse) or an incredibly good (5/5/5 or better) ruler and that province is still Hellenic he/she can make a decision to become
I like Albiyun.
I'll just go with that, what would such a state be named?
SouthernKing
crickety cricket
Updated nations list, (plus my suggested attempts at Arabizing a few names)
Spoiler :
SouthernKing
crickety cricket
Guys pls reply so I don't have to triple post again D:
I put together all of the cultural suggestions, without adding anything, into one list for reference:
Same with religions:
I put together all of the cultural suggestions, without adding anything, into one list for reference:
Spoiler :
Same with religions:
Spoiler :
Krzowwh
King
And in response, here are my suggestions for East and Southeast Asian cultures:
As for the Buddhism thing, an issue is that the "Dharmic" and "Eastern" religious groups aren't really that separate either. Adherents of Shinto and Shenism get along as well with Buddhists as Jains and Hindus do. It's more of a gradient if anything else. As such, if were to make them one religious group, it WOULD make more sense to split up Buddhism into various sects. Regardless, we should probably raise the tolerance of "heretics" modifier to 3 and above to outweigh the default -2 modifier.
Also, I don't think the Dutch mechanics were discussed yet. What would be a good candidate? Somewhere between monarchy and republic with a focus on trade, so Carthage(?) perhaps? Or with what we have currently, Tuunghai has the most conspicuous position out of all the republics, so it could be a reflection of a republican system descended from a monarchy.
Spoiler :
As for the Buddhism thing, an issue is that the "Dharmic" and "Eastern" religious groups aren't really that separate either. Adherents of Shinto and Shenism get along as well with Buddhists as Jains and Hindus do. It's more of a gradient if anything else. As such, if were to make them one religious group, it WOULD make more sense to split up Buddhism into various sects. Regardless, we should probably raise the tolerance of "heretics" modifier to 3 and above to outweigh the default -2 modifier.
Spoiler :
Also, I don't think the Dutch mechanics were discussed yet. What would be a good candidate? Somewhere between monarchy and republic with a focus on trade, so Carthage(?) perhaps? Or with what we have currently, Tuunghai has the most conspicuous position out of all the republics, so it could be a reflection of a republican system descended from a monarchy.
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I think we should reorganize Germanic and the Europeans Pagans into one religious group, "European". All of these would share the Piety Mechanic (except for the Norse), but they would have different static bonuses, for example the Insular Celts could have a tolerance bonus while the Germanics could have a Manpower and Forcelimit boost to represent their horde-y nature.
Also I was thinking about Techgroups. I imagine later in development we might want to make fully fleshed out techgroups with newly named and balanced units and such, but for version 0.1 I think it would just be prudent to use renamed Here's my ideas so far:
Imperial Greek +0% Tech Cost (Equivalent to Western) - Used by the HRE and other Imperial Greek states like Ireland. Considering the possible fragility of the Greek, you might want a Westernization Event in even of their annexation so the world isn't doomed to tech stagnation.
Western Greek +20% Tech Cost (Equivalent to Eastern) - Used by nations with Western Greek state religion. Muslim Rome might use this one as well considering they are culturally Roman.
Eastern Greek +25% Tech Cost (Equivalent to Ottoman) - Used by nations with Easter Greek state religion.
Abrahamic +40% Tech Cost (Equivalent to Muslim) - Used by nations in the Abrahamic Religious Group, except those in Europe.
European +50% Tech Cost (Equivalent to Indian) - Used by nations in Europe with the Abrahamic or European Religious Groups, with the (maybe) exception of Spain and Muslim Italy.
Asian +70% Tech Cost (Equivalent to Chinese) - Used by all of Asia, including India. Also, even if we don't expand this techgroup to India, can we please rename it to Asian anyway? Someone on Paradox Plaza must have read too much of Chirstos' propaganda because China =/= Japan.
All other techgroups (i.e Native Ones and Hordes) would be the same. What do you guys think?
Also I was thinking about Techgroups. I imagine later in development we might want to make fully fleshed out techgroups with newly named and balanced units and such, but for version 0.1 I think it would just be prudent to use renamed Here's my ideas so far:
Imperial Greek +0% Tech Cost (Equivalent to Western) - Used by the HRE and other Imperial Greek states like Ireland. Considering the possible fragility of the Greek, you might want a Westernization Event in even of their annexation so the world isn't doomed to tech stagnation.
Western Greek +20% Tech Cost (Equivalent to Eastern) - Used by nations with Western Greek state religion. Muslim Rome might use this one as well considering they are culturally Roman.
Eastern Greek +25% Tech Cost (Equivalent to Ottoman) - Used by nations with Easter Greek state religion.
Abrahamic +40% Tech Cost (Equivalent to Muslim) - Used by nations in the Abrahamic Religious Group, except those in Europe.
European +50% Tech Cost (Equivalent to Indian) - Used by nations in Europe with the Abrahamic or European Religious Groups, with the (maybe) exception of Spain and Muslim Italy.
Asian +70% Tech Cost (Equivalent to Chinese) - Used by all of Asia, including India. Also, even if we don't expand this techgroup to India, can we please rename it to Asian anyway? Someone on Paradox Plaza must have read too much of Chirstos' propaganda because China =/= Japan.
All other techgroups (i.e Native Ones and Hordes) would be the same. What do you guys think?
Krzowwh
King
I kind of imagined pagan Europe to be in the nomad tech group, with Central Europe and Dacia being in the Indian equivalent. I think Western should just be the Hellenosphere (including Muslim Italy and Anatolia), Eastern being Muslim Europe and the Near East (Mediterranean, or rather, Mesogeiaki), and Ottoman includes North Africa, the British Isles and perhaps the Middle East. I suggest making Central Asia + India + Northern China + Japan the Muslim equivalent as well.
After all, there should be some colonial power that's not stuck in theGibraltar Herakleian bottleneck.
After all, there should be some colonial power that's not stuck in the
Civ'ed
I ain't gotta explain a thing
I prefer NC's idea re: tech groups.
SouthernKing
crickety cricket
Thanks for those.
Point taken; I suppose we can just merge the lot of them under a vague "Eastern" category but that's not really descriptive enough either imo?
(Does the concept of republicanism exist in Eastern political thought at all?) I do like the idea of Tuunghai getting a special government, as Asia definitely needs more of those.
Sure, that works.
With tech groups, I like all this; my only concern with that is that there aren't enough Hellenic countries to justify having 3 tech groups, even if we add more (that mass of states, and the East African coast, and maybe even Yemen are all possibilities).
I also think the Muslims in Europe should have a definitive tech advantage over the pagans; this way, the pagans start out as major, major threats that could overrun Gaul, giving the Muslims an urgent need to unify, but the pagans also need to work to modernize if they want to stay relevant.
See my suggestion below.
Speaking of Dacia, I actually had a better idea for the Slavs. 48 could be a Zoroastrian neo-Dacia, and the Slavs could have been migrated east to 79 or 80 or perhaps even 205.
I definitely agree with the last part. Ireland, whoever unifies France, the Iberian states, whoever ends up being in Morocco (which I propose be part of a largish pan-Berber state), and Takrur are all prime possibilities for colonialization. I'd love to see some Asian powers get in the mix too but I have no idea if the AI can handle that.
So my suggestion, trying to keep NC's more or less intact and considering Krz's suggestions:
---
Imperial Greek (Western): HRE (we should get a new name for this btw), Ireland, and whoever else
<somethingelsian> Greek (Eastern): Other Hellenic and/or Hellenic-influenced states, so I suppose Italy, Anatolia, parts of India, parts of Indonesia, Scythia, Taman, and wherever else.
Abrahamic (Ottoman): Levant, Arabia, Mesopotamia, Persia, Central Asia; the Christian-centered group but including the Jews as well
Muslim (Muslim, coincidentally enough): North Africa, Spain, France, Britain (including the Celts)
Asian (Indian): India, SE Asia, China, Japan
European (Chinese): At the very least Germany, Scandinavia, non-Muslim Southern Europe. I suppose the Baltics could go in here as well, but I kind of agree with Krz they should be nomadic
Nomads, Sub-Saharan, and New World remain the same (Vinland is the only possible wrench here, but I guess we can just throw it in New World and say that's an issue that can be fixed later).
---
There should definitely be an alternate path to changing tech groups than westernization as >90% of playthroughs won't give you the chance to westernize anyway. Maybe a decision if you border a country of a higher tech group to switch tech groups, with the same bad modifiers and the chance to get westernization events? I suppose the "Hellenize Norway" decision I proposed earlier could also do this.
JohannaK
Heroically Clueless
Subbing.
SouthernKing
crickety cricket
Krzowwh
King
Not republicanism per se (in terms of representation), but confederalism and parliamentarism are definitely well documented in East Asian history before the time-frame of this mod, which I think is good enough for the in-game republican mechanics.
Also in terms of naming, a Greek-dominated civilization would probably think of the Near East as the "default" Asian, rather than the immigration-influenced term we use in English. So for both the religious group and technology group I would suggest something like "Indo-Seric".
As for the HRE, something involving Panhellenes?
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
@Krzowwh: Sino-Yamato or Sino-Yamatai for the Hata sounds better to me.
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Would anyone mind if I ask Thorvarld to set up an SVN for us? He seems to know what he is doing in that department.
Krzowwh
King
Hmm...
Yamato or Yamatai sounds really native Japanese (which it is, but you know). As a Qin descendant, I think calling the culture Fusou (扶桑
would be a good idea.
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
Hmm...
Yamato or Yamatai sounds really native Japanese (which it is, but you know). As a Qin descendant, I think calling the culture Fusou (扶桑
Not a bad choice at all.
SouthernKing
crickety cricket
Indo-Seric works, we could rename Abrahamic tech group to Asian I guess.
Sure, this would be really helpful actually.
Now, North Africa, West Africa, East Africa, South Africa, Darkest Africa, Lightest Africa, 11th Dimensional Africa, Lightest Africa, Hyperspace Africa, and - nvm, Indonesia, Manchuria, Korea, Japan, and Mesoamerica seem to be what's left. (I don't think changing the Americas are an immediate need - I know Vinland exists but the Old World should be a much greater initial priority)
For some of these, I have some ideas.
-A Hellenic state (maybe a 2/3PM or OPM even) based in Zanzibar. My logic is since the Hellenics clearly had access to the entirety of the Indian Ocean trade routes to have gone as far as Indonesia. Maybe even a second Hellenic state based in Mogadishu.
-In North Africa, maybe a powerful (neo-)Carthage controlling the central North African coast, Morocco and Algeria could be divided between at most half a dozen coastal states and tribals, maybe one of which controls the trans-sahara provinces, and another of which controls the Atlantic coast and is a likely colonial power.
-Maybe a southern maritime kingdom/something controlling (at least parts of) Malaya, Borneo, and some of the Indonesian islands, actually 178 could fit that role pretty well.
I want to say to feel free to challenge anything I say; what I put is merely a suggestion and shouldn't be taken as any sort of final judgement of anything. I realize that I started this as a personal project and I'll certainly be putting a great deal of work into it but I don't want to come across as being a dictator.
