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Greecemod: Not a Byzwank, Promise (EU4 althist mod creation/discussion thread)

Discussion in 'Imperium OffTopicum' started by SouthernKing, Sep 29, 2014.

  1. Civ'ed

    Civ'ed I ain't gotta explain a thing

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    Oh god the lag, the lag!
     
  2. SouthernKing

    SouthernKing crickety cricket

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    Hrm? Largely because Germany/Italy was reduced from a good 50 countries to about 7, and most other regions other than Greece/the Middle East and China have about the same as vanilla, it's not like we're going to have that many more tags than vanilla.
     
  3. Omega124

    Omega124 Challenging Fate

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    Make sure you remove the tags you aren't using completely, though, or else the game will lag. Even tags that aren't being actively used bog down the speed.
     
  4. SouthernKing

    SouthernKing crickety cricket

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    Noted. A lot of European tags will have to be deleted or repurposed then, not that there's anything wrong with that.

    Spoiler :


    Filled in the rest of Europe, this isn't really final.

    Spoiler :


    I also started a labelled map (again, not meaning the actual setup is final) This may seem like a lot, but consider that EU4 vanilla (pre-AoW, AoW is probably adding another 50 or so) has 406 total tags (I don't have hard numbers but probably well over half of those exist at start), and by my estimations you can easily edit 10 country files an hour. I can't imagine the rest of the map taking more than another ~50 tags, so we end up with no more than about 275 tags at start, which is perfectly reasonable, and maybe another 50-100 releasable or fordable tags gives us less than 400. We're not going to have issues on that end.

    tl;dr one person could easily do this given maybe a month or two, multiple people could do it even faster.

    Spoiler :

    1. Ierne (Hellenic Ireland)
    2. ???
    3. ???
    4. ???
    5. ???
    6. ???
    7. (Druidic Britain)
    8. Camelot
    9. (Islamic Britain)
    10. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    11. Armorica (Druidic)
    12. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    13. Lutetia
    14. Pictavia
    15. Aquitania
    16. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    17. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    18. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    19. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    20. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    21. Massalia
    22. Tarraconensis
    23. Lutetia
    24. Tartessos
    25. Citerior
    26. Italya (Muslim)
    27. Rome (or SPQR or whatever)
    28. Venezia
    29. ???
    30. ???
    31. Allemannia
    32. Francia
    33. Frisia
    34. Saxony
    35. Marcomannia
    36. Vandalia
    37. Angleland
    38. ???
    39. ???
    40. Sami
    41. Finland
    42. Estonia
    43. Latvia
    44. Lithuania
    45. Prussia
    46. Yotvingia
    47. ??? (Buddhist)
    48. ???
    49. ???
    50. Illyria (Ethiopia-analogue)
    51. ???
    52. Antea (Zoroastrian Slavs)
    ---
    Greek HRE States:
    53. Epirus
    54. Macedon
    55. Thracia
    56. Larissa
    57. Athens
    58. Corinth
    59. Sparta
    60. Syracuse
    61. Rhodes
    62. Caria
    63. Lesbos
    64. Troy
    65. Bithynia
    66. Phrygia
    67. Lydia
    68. Taurimark (Hellenized Norwegian colony)
    ---
    69. ??? (It's in Denmark. In other words, SK can't count.)
    70. Byzantium
    71. Scythia
    72. ???
    73. ???
    74. Galinida
    75. ??? (Norse descendents perhaps?)
    76. ???
    77. ???
    78. Moksha (Buddhist)
    79. ???
    80. ??? (some eastern horde maybe)
    81. Taman
    82. Colchis
    83. Pontus
    84. Armenia
    85. Taurus
    86. Cappadocia (Muslim)
    87. Antioch
    88. Byblos
    89. Tyre
    90. Israel
    91. Damietta?
    92. Alexandria?
    93. ???
    94. ???
    95. ???
    96. Jihadist Ethiopia
    97. Christian something ruling over Muslim holy sites
    98. ???
    99. Nabatea (no idea what religion this is)
    100. Damascus
    101. Palmyra
    102. Assyria
    103. Lakhmidia (Christian Arab tribe who settled there and is now a full state)
    104. The Abba (Pope)
    105. Nineveh
    106. Arbela
    107. Azerbaijan
    108. Ecbatana
    109. Susa


    And I'm stopping at 109 for today due to tiredness.
     
  5. NinjaCow64

    NinjaCow64 The Continuation of the Dream Supporter

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    Now that I've got more of an idea of who-is-who on the map, I'm going to offer a few suggestions. Quick ones first:

    -I don't think the "HRE" majors have enough provinces, especially Athens. I think that they should get more colonies (read: random provinces that nations like Geno get). Maybe Antea (52) can be swapped with 48 and then the "HRE" states get their provinces, with Macedon getting most of the inland ones (which makes sense considering they were always the most expansion-y). And then the other states can just get random coastal cities in the Med and North Africa.
    -To justify having OPMs like Byzantium and Camelot being Christian in heavy non-Christian areas, we could have a group that attempts to spread Christianity throughout Europe, working title "the Pilgrims". They would be represented by events that pop up every couple of decades that converts one of your provinces to Christianity if you are a non-Christian state in Europe. If we want to represent them on the map, we could have their HQ in what is currently "Alexandria".
    -Pope Abba Jehoshua I, make it happen.

    Now here's the biggie. It's about France. I was thinking about how we could divide France up and I was also thinking about why it was divided up like it was. And then it hit me: Islamic Karlings. Okay, they wouldn't be called the Karlings, that would be a bit on the nose, but if we could find a name that is sort of like Karling then that would be great.

    Basic history is there is a Charlemagne-esque figure who united France a while back under Islamic rule. Before he could march East and destroy the pagan states, he died and his idiot sons squabbled over his lands, causing the break up of France. Their bickering continues to this day which allows the Pagan Hordes to grow stronger and stronger...

    Each of the states ruled by an "Islamic Karling" would hate all the other Islamic Karlings with a burning passion, represented by an opinion malus (-100 maybe?) and missions to steal each other's provinces. Due to the high chance of PUs, there would be events that remove the opinion malus when a PU happens. There should also be events that throw Pretenders everywhere to represent the ever shifting nature of the region. France should also be a Union tag.

    10. Tolerant Islamic Merchant Republic that has a high tolerance for non-state religions. Republic of Normandy maybe?
    11. Armorica (Druidic)
    12. Islamic Karling Kingdom
    13. Lutetia (I hope this country would be all like "why haven't we Jihaded these pagans into oblivion yet?)
    14. Pictavia
    15. Aquitania
    16-20: More Islamic Karlings. Although it would be swell if one or two of these were Theocracies or Republics as we need more of those.

    What you think of these ideas?

    EDIT:

    I'm really liking the Pilgrim Idea. I've even thought of potential NIs for them (they could be OP though):

    Traditions: +5% Missionary Strength, +1 Missionary
    1. The Eternal Crusade (Permanent casus belli against all other religious groups) - Years we have tirelessly fought for the hearts and minds of those trapped within the tyranny of false belief, yet we have made negligible progress. The Master of the Pilgrimage believes it is time for a more...aggressive stance against our enemies. With or without the Abba's blessing, we will declare a Crusade that will not end until all souls are saved.
    2. Ships of the Pilgrimage (10% Naval Forcelimits) - Many ships carry the pilgrimage across Europe, perhaps it is time to use them to carry our swords as well.
    3. Operation Babel (10% Spy Offense) - Our pilgrims have traveled far and wide. They can speak many tongues and know how to blend in. They too will contribute to our crusade by causing confusion and distrust in our enemy's ranks unseen of since God himself smashed that unholy tower.
    4. No Mercy, No Pity For the Foe (-20% Unjustified Demands) - We have no need to justify ourselves to heathens, from now on we will show no mercy, have no pity and never negotiate with heathens.
    5. Many Hands (+10% National Manpower Modifier) - Brothers and Sisters of Battle come from all of Christendom to join our holy crusade. As they say, many hands make light work.
    6. All Good Catholics (-10% Accepted Culture Threshold) - Europe is a land with many cultures, races and traditions. All our welcome at our court, as long as they follow the true faith.
    7. Empire of God on Earth (+1 Yearly Prestige) - We have created the most pious Empire! We are more divinely blessed than the Abba himself! From the lowliest pauper to the highest King no that there are none more faithful nor humble as us.

    Bonus: +2 Own Religion Tolerance
     
  6. Krzowwh

    Krzowwh King

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    We should probably finish the cultures (including aesthetics of names, etc.) first, before we create any country files then. I doubt that any of the European names will plausibly be the same, especially considering the different religions and so forth. But I'd definitely be willing to help for this once this stage gets going.

    The Qusayyads
     
  7. Terran Empress

    Terran Empress Hornet

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    yeah my bad

    I have said it before and I will say it again, I think we should keep the OTL names of cultures at least so that it has some better grounding in the OTL, we don't want the players to have to either look up everyone to see who they were OTL or just give up and think all of it is fantasy or what ever

    just my opinion

    additionaly I really like this.

    really like this idea. However Name Ideas:

    Paulites or the Order of Paul (named after Paul the Apostle, if needed I will tell his story)
    The Apostles (obvious name is obvious)
    The Missionaries (once again obvious name is obvious)

    I don't think Pilgrims work as well since from what i see this group is supposed to be missionaries that go around teaching the bible and christ to non christians, they should also be a charity organization IMO.

    One problem with that, the Karlings were Franks, the Franks currently have their own germanic pagan kingdom that is competing with saxony, I love the idea, but I don't think it would be franks who did this, however I think it might work a bit better in Iberia/Hispania? considering we are kinda keeping Gaul well Gual



    Finaly can i have a tinesy weinsy special nation request.

    Id like to request the Nephites and/or the Lamanites in central america

    I will totaly 200% understand if you say no SK.
     
  8. Krzowwh

    Krzowwh King

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    I meant names of people. As in, it wouldn't any sense for anybody to be named after saints in France, so we should rebuild the set of names using more Celtic or Arabic names.

    As for culture names, I think changes are perfectly fine for flavor and uniqueness, as long as the "counterpart" culture(s) is recognizable or understood. Like the Latin culture in Southern France being called Transalpine or Galleis instead of Occitan or something.
     
  9. Terran Empress

    Terran Empress Hornet

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    oh ok, that makes sense
     
  10. Robert Can't

    Robert Can't Grantaire

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    Here's a couple of suggestions for the load of question marks you have for Northern Britain specifically pertaining to 2-6 on your list

    Merge 2 and 4 to form Dal Raida (2) - Potentially navy orientated with militaristic focus
    Take Lothian and Northumberland and make a new nation called Bernicia (4) - Christian Enclave
    Name 6 Elmet - Islamic Kingdom maybe client of Islamicwessexthing
    Name 5 Rheged - Kingdom
    Name 3 Alba - Kingdom with a focus on trade

    I saw you had culture group ideas all set up already but if I may make a humble suggestion for Cultures Britain could have the following Culture Groups:

    Brythonic
    -Cumbric (4,5,6)
    -Welsh (2,7,8)
    -Arabic-Brythonic? (9 depending on what you want to do with it)

    Insular
    -Irish (1)
    -Breton
    -Normandish
    -Arabic-Breton
    -And all those other French Celts

    Depending on what sort of stuff you want for this area I could come up with some interesting histories/idea groups/ect. I know I'm popping in late but I haven't seen much in Britain in the thread so I thought you probably wouldn't mind if I threw some ideas around.
     
  11. SouthernKing

    SouthernKing crickety cricket

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    Note that I actually had this post created with much longer and more eloquent replies, then I accidentally backed out of the window, erasing everything. So my replies are rather shorter than they should be.

    More colonies are nice and I fully support them, but I'm just kind of reluctant to give Antea to the HRE, since it removes the fact of a foreboding northern power.

    Support both. Abba Jehoshua is yes :p My view on the Pilgrims are below.

    Ooh yes, I really like this. It gives a nice explanation as to why Gaul is that disunited, and also gives an urgency for the Gallic states to reunite (or at least stop fighting) or face Civ'ed's wrath.

    Sweet, this is great.

    I'm inclined to agree with Terran that "Pilgrims," and I prefer Apostles (just because Apostles sounds more impressive/militant), but then again Pilgrims reminds me of the Endless Space faction so I dunno.

    I also am not sure Alexandria is the best place for them, since the Red Sea and the Sinai area should be a split between Christianity and Islam. Some Mediterranean island (Cyprus or Sardinia) would perhaps work better.

    Agreed.

    Qusayyads works.

    I'm rather hesitant to put non-migratory cultures for which there isn't archaeological evidence for, so I'm afraid I'm unwilling to do this right now.

    Though I will be the first to say that this would be a great idea for another mod.

    Ooh, yes, I'm willing to canonize this. Yeah, Britain hasn't been touched much, the only idea I had was an at least partially Germanic/Norse Scotland, but that was no more than an idea, so Britain is pretty much a blank slate as far as history and backgrounds are concerned.

    ---

    Finished 110-203 on the list, though I haven't uploaded a map with Robert's changes yet:

    Spoiler :
    1. Ierne (Hellenic Ireland)
    2. Dal Raida
    3. Alba
    4. Bernicia
    5. Rheged
    6. Elmet
    7. (Druidic Britain)
    8. Camelot
    9. (Islamic Britain)
    10. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    11. Armorica (Druidic)
    12. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    13. Lutetia
    14. Pictavia
    15. Aquitania
    16. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    17. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    18. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    19. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    20. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    21. Massalia
    22. Tarraconensis
    23. Lutetia
    24. Tartessos
    25. Citerior
    26. Italya (Muslim)
    27. Rome (or SPQR or whatever)
    28. Venezia
    29. ???
    30. ???
    31. Allemannia
    32. Francia
    33. Frisia
    34. Saxony
    35. Marcomannia
    36. Vandalia
    37. Angleland
    38. ???
    39. ???
    40. Sami
    41. Finland
    42. Estonia
    43. Latvia
    44. Lithuania
    45. Prussia
    46. Yotvingia
    47. ??? (Buddhist)
    48. ???
    49. ???
    50. Illyria (Ethiopia-analogue)
    51. ???
    52. Antea (Zoroastrian Slavs)
    ---
    Greek HRE States:
    53. Epirus
    54. Macedon
    55. Thracia
    56. Larissa
    57. Athens
    58. Corinth
    59. Sparta
    60. Syracuse
    61. Rhodes
    62. Caria
    63. Lesbos
    64. Troy
    65. Bithynia
    66. Phrygia
    67. Lydia
    68. Taurimark (Hellenized Norwegian colony)
    ---
    69. ??? (It's in Denmark. In other words, SK can't count.)
    70. Byzantium
    71. Scythia
    72. ???
    73. ???
    74. Galinida
    75. ??? (Norse descendents perhaps?)
    76. ???
    77. ???
    78. Moksha (Buddhist)
    79. ???
    80. ??? (some eastern horde maybe)
    81. Taman
    82. Colchis
    83. Pontus
    84. Armenia
    85. Taurus
    86. Cappadocia (Muslim)
    87. Antioch
    88. Byblos
    89. Tyre
    90. Israel
    91. Damietta?
    92. Alexandria?
    93. ???
    94. ???
    95. ???
    96. Jihadist Ethiopia
    97. Christian something ruling over Muslim holy sites
    98. ???
    99. Nabatea (no idea what religion this is)
    100. Damascus
    101. Palmyra
    102. Assyria
    103. Lakhmidia (Christian Arab tribe who settled there and is now a full state)
    104. The Abba (Pope)
    105. Nineveh
    106. Arbela
    107. Azerbaijan
    108. Ecbatana
    109. Susa
    110. ???
    111. ???
    112. ??? (Buddhist)
    113. Organa (yes this is an actual name, not a pun)
    114. Persia
    115. Hyrcania (Persian vassal)
    116. Parthia (Persian vassal with cores on a number of surrounding provinces)
    117. (*maybe* a Persian vassal)
    118. (Persian vassal)
    119. ???
    120. ???
    121. Chorasmia
    122. ???
    123. Jaxartes (or Transoxiana but Jaxartes is a far cooler name)
    124. Fergana
    125. Bactria or Gandhara
    126. ???
    127. Indica
    128. Kashmir?
    129. ??? (Hellenic)
    130. Aorsia (Zoroastrian)
    131. ???
    132. Dalmasca
    133. ???
    134. ???
    135. ???
    136. ???
    137. ???
    138. ???
    139. ???
    140. ???
    141. ???
    142. ???
    143. Assaka
    144. Karnataka
    145. Kerala (Center of the Mithraism)
    146. Pandya
    147. Amaravati
    148. Kalinga
    149. Magadha
    150. ???
    151. Manipur
    152. Monyul
    153. Nepal
    154. Tibet
    155. Kashgar
    156. Kucha
    157. Khotan
    158. Qarqan
    159. Turfan
    160. Testveri (Magyars)
    161. Mohe (name?)
    162. Tuunghai
    ---
    Chinese Hegemony (Shogunate mechanics)
    163. Ping
    164. Huaxia
    165. Luo
    166. Nei
    167. Ye
    168. Jiang
    ---
    169. Xie (Seres, or Christosland)
    170. ??? (According to Dawn this should be a relative backwater state, a sort of Chinese Mississippi)
    171. Gyong Tsrag
    172. Meng Chu
    173. Min Yuet
    174. Nam Yuet
    175. Champa
    176. Khmer Empire
    177. Hellenic Indonesia (This *may* be a little too far-fetched)
    178. ??? (Mithraic)
    179. Chola (A Hindu Tamil empire exiled from its homeland by the Pandya, Chola also owns at least part of Lanka)
    180. ??? (A powerful inland Jewish state with links eastwards as well)
    181. Takrur (no idea what religion - or culture - this is)
    182. Tupi
    183. Iceland
    184. Inuit (or something; a semi-unified tribal state that emerged after the start of the Little Ice Age forced the Vinlanders south)
    185. Vinland (May need renaming)
    186. Markland (May need renaming)
    187. Huron/Wyandot
    188. Iroquois/Haudenosaunee
    189. Miami (For the record, some/all of the Native American states could use renaming into their native language or something so they're not just tribe names, but I don't know close enough about Amerindian linguistics to attempt this)
    190. Shawnee
    191. Cherokee
    192. Creek or Muscogee
    193. Choctaw
    194. Natchez
    195. Chickasaw
    196. Cahokia (The large empire and the strongest of the native states)
    197. Peoria (repurposed Illiniwek tag)
    198. Sauk
    199. Fox
    200. Sioux
    201. Pawnee
    202. Wichita
    203. Caddo


    ---

    And finally, regions that still need filling with countries:
    -North America: I've thought about adding a cluster of states in New Mexico with the Pueblo/whatnot, and AoW will open the Pacific Northwest greatly, so there's. I don't think either is a priority. I've also thought about making maybe the Sioux through events into a North American Akkad of sorts - a country that mounts a military campaign into a disunited cradle.
    -Central America: Literally nothing yet, aside from adding what Terran suggested, which as I already said I'm hesitant to do.
    -South America: ...Gunpowder Incas?
    -North Africa: Didn't you say at one point that you wanted to do this, Terran?
    -West Africa: I know we have Takrur and Jewish Empire, not sure what goes through here.
    -Central Asia: I might just divide the yet-to-be-filled-in-area into two as-yet-unnamed minor hordes between the Testveri/Magyars and #80.
    -Burma: Have some ideas here; probably will be a largeish Lower Burmese state surrounded by a moderate power in Upper Burma and a couple of scattered minors to fill in the gaps.
    -Indonesia: Reus?
    -Sub-Saharan Africa: ...Prester John? that empire from Congo? Carthaginian colonies? Viking colonies? Indonesian colonies? I have no idea what could possibly go here.
    -Manchuria, Korea, and Japan: I figure I'll just leave this area to Krzowwh/Dawn/Bair/other people who actually know what they're doing and have ideas what go here.
     
  12. Terran Empress

    Terran Empress Hornet

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    Ugh you just really want me to make a mod don't you...


    FINE!


    I start working on that CK2 BoM mod ive been thinking about for a while.

    *various grumbling sounds*

    :p ;)
     
  13. NinjaCow64

    NinjaCow64 The Continuation of the Dream Supporter

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    Oh no, I'm not suggesting that. I'll put it on the map:



    The Red nation was currently unnamed. The grey blob would be given to various "HRE" powers (probably Athens, Lesbos and Sparta). Macedon does look extremely stronk in that picture, they aren't that stronk compared to the rest of the HRE they just have the benefit of being centralized rather than having colonies scattered around the place. Still, you could give some of their northern provinces back to Antea if they are too stronk.

    Also, is there any chance we could give Gibraltar to Athens? I want it for three reasons, as a reference to Britain's control over it, as a way for more Hellenics to be able to race for the New World and as a way to justify Ireland remaining in communion to the "Imperial Hellenic" church (more on that later).

    Yay. More ideas for France:

    -13 could be a Islamic "Monasitic Order" based out of France, along with 18-20 (maybe they could be their vassals?). They would be like "Silly Qusayyads, we should REMOVE PAGAN".
    -14-17 + 12 should be Qusayyad Kingdoms (Sultanates?), I might make an NI group for them later.
    -21 could be an Avingon based Merchant Republic with a Piracy/Privateer focus. I'm thinking of having an infamous Avigonese Pirate known as the "Fire Wizard" who burnt down the Pilgrim's fleet, which caused them to go militant. This would be a Tyo reference (maybe the Master of Pilgrimage could be called Tychus?). Also we should have a "HRE" Merchant Republic and maybe a Christian one.

    The reason I thought of the name "Pilgrims" is because I was thinking that they were peaceful until they were attacked by the Fire Wizard who burnt down their fleet. Basically before that incident they were the medieval equivalent of door knockers.

    I think Sardinia would be good, gives them access to major Islamic states.

    Also be warned: I believe there are multiple IOTers who would kill you if Wales was independent in this mod. :p

    Anyway, today I want to talk quickly about religions. What religions are we adding to this mod? I've got something in my head, although it could be completely different to what SK/everyone else was thinking of. Here goes nothing:

    Imperial Hellenism - This is the "Catholic" version of Hellenism. It worships the Greek Pantheon, but it also gives divinity to Alexander and his descendents, plus the "Holy Roman Emperors". The reason they were given divinity was because Alexander (or one of his decedents) wanted to turn the faith into a means of Imperial control. I'm not sure what mechanics this religion would use, I don't think the Cardinal system would make sense. Maybe we could re-purpose the Hindu Gods for this religion as well? They would use the Reformation system as well, hopefully we can uncouple that from the Cardinals. This religion would be mainly practiced in the "HRE", Ireland and (maybe) Rome. We can justify Ireland having this Hellenism by saying they remained in contact with the Empire via a Gibraltar trade route.

    Reformed Hellenism - This is the "Protestant" version of Hellenism. When the Reformation happens, they reform into this. They would probably use the Reformed mechanics from Reformed Christians, although maybe a nerfed version of those as I don't think we should have two Protestant religions for Hellenism (just my preference).

    Eastern and Western Hellenism - This would be the "Orthodox/Coptic" version of Hellenism. These represent the regions that were converted to Hellenism during the height of the Greek Empire, but lost contact with the central Empire. Western Hellenism would be West of the "HRE" (Europe minus Italy and Ireland) and Eastern would be East of the "HRE" (India and China). They would both have the "Misguided Heretics" modifiers with each other and the Imperial Hellenics. As their belief systems would be mixed with local customs and beliefs, I don't think that the Hindu system would be appropriate here. I was thinking we could use the Patriarchal Authority system to represent how each state would have a separate church.

    Christianity/Islam: I was thinking for Alt-Historical amusement, that Christianity and Islam never had the sect splits that they did in OTL. Shia and Sunni Islam wouldn't be a thing, they would just be Islam. Same with Catholicism and Orthodox. Islam could use the Piety-O-Meter system, while Christianity could just use the Cardinals. If the Cardinals is impossible to separate from the Reformation, then Christians could use the Piety-O-Meter too. Theocracies and the Abba would have large bonuses to Piety to make sure they stayed high on the Piety-O-Meter.

    PAGANS GALORE: We've got Druids! Germanic! Norse! African! North and South American! (Roman?). I'll let somebody else think of ideas for them, although probably static modifiers is probably what we'd have to do.

    Zoroastrians and Judaism would be a thing in this timeline, again, no idea what to do here other than static modifiers.

    Eastern Religions and stuff...yeah, not sure what's going on here. Probably leave them the sameish?

    That's my idea for religions. What do you guys think?
     
  14. Robert Can't

    Robert Can't Grantaire

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    In regards to Christianity and Islam in Britain, I've been thinking it would be fun to write some events about their spread to eachother/pagans. I'm thinking of event chains for Camelot, Islamic Britain and Bernicia involving the three clashing against each other for religious dominance of the British Isles. Possibly also some minor influence from Ireland too.
    Some notes on Religion:

    Insular (2,3,5,7 and any Frenchies ect.)
    The Religion of the Insular Celts - and definitely a better name than Druids. Potentially though in many of the territories held by these leaders it is not the majority religion - Christianity and Islam being more popular amongst the masses and the rulers holing onto power through a large bonus to tolerance (Polytheism potentialy leads to that)

    The Ecumenical Brotherhood
    The event chain that fires for Bernicia to begin conversion of the Insular leaders through peaceful means. The Ecumenical Brotherhood being a monastic order of the Pilgrims that is set out on conversion though peaceful and tolerant means.

    Camelot (I think this name could do with changing though) - Also I think they should be given the two territories directly to their East to ensure they they get a few more potential Camelot Locations
    A more Militant branch of the Pilgrims here due to the constant threat of invasion from the Islamic powers. Obviously with a heavy focus on knights and honour and nonsense like that. Might do some events to represent clashes with the more peacefull northern Pilgrims.

    Elmet - I think should also get the Druid Province to their east
    As a Brythonic culture with Islamic Religion I'll potentially do events regarding a strained relationship with the rulers of Ingeltra. Also the potential for breaking free and forming a true Celtic Islamic Nation as well as events regarding clashes with the Ecumenical Brotherhood and Friends over the conversion of Insulars.

    Rheged Insular, should have Lancaster (Directly south) rather than the welsh.
    Ingeltra - The Islamic British
    Brython - The Druidnation

    Will more later
     
  15. Civ'ed

    Civ'ed I ain't gotta explain a thing

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    If the Saxons, or to be more precise, the Angles didn't move into Britain, there is no reason for Islamic Britain to be called Ingeltra, or indeed Ingelanything.
     
  16. NinjaCow64

    NinjaCow64 The Continuation of the Dream Supporter

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    7,812
    They are some great ideas Robert! I'd imagine that the reason why the Pilgrims have such a strong prescence in is because the Insular Celts were so tolerant of them.

    Just to note that just because the Sardinian Pilgrims have become more militant, doesn't mean that the rest of the Pilgrims aren't peaceful. In fact, most of the Pilgrims running around Europe still have kept the whole medieval door knockers ****ick. That doesn't mean that there aren't militant ones, like the ones in Camelot (who I think should have had an instrumental role in putting Saber/Aertur Pendragon in power).

    The main thing I would like in Brython is the leader to be "[something] Ravus" and a mission/core on the province containing Stonehenge.

    EDIT: Also, I think for each nation there should be a "Start Event" that says the history and current situation of the nation you are playing as. Or groups of nations (like the Qusayyad Kingdoms).
     
  17. SouthernKing

    SouthernKing crickety cricket

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    Perhaps :p

    Hmm...how about this? I redistributed a few provinces and expanded the new Antea further south. Adriatic Coast was given to Epirus. Corinth and Sparta both get what will be 2 North African provinces each. The thing is that I feel expanding the HRE too far north will lose the impression that this is a highly Mediterranean-based polity, and one that is rather fragile at that. The HRE doesn't necessarily need to be overly strong.

    Spoiler :


    (Additionally, I added in the Pilgrims and a few preliminary countries in Central Asia, Yemen, and Burma to fill in the remaining gaps on the map.)

    Athenian Gibraltar...I like the idea but I feel like it wouldn't really make sense for Tartessos to not have it if it has possessions on both sides of the straits. A possible explanation for Hellenic Ireland could be that Hellenism was the primary (though not entire) religion of Spain and France pre-Islamic conquest was, and Ireland was invaded or somehow influenced by migrating peoples from there. To reflect this maybe a province or two in Portugal or Galicia could be Hellenic.

    I love the idea of 13/Lutetia being a theocratic order (remember, this country would include Paris, making it doubly hilarious)

    I think it makes more sense to have 18-20 be Qusayyad splinters but that works just as well.

    If 21 is a merchant republic, it makes more sense to have it be called Massalia since it's on the coast but for the reference the pirate being from Avignon works.

    Fair enough.

    I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target.

    I like this. Though I feel we should still keep the curia with Catholicism if that's possible. Can we use Patriarchal Authority (or piety for that matter) for multiple religions? Because if so we could use it for more than just this.

    I had a thought about Islam, actually. The fact that there's a jihad being called for Mecca implies at least some level of spiritual unity amongst the Muslim world, so we could use patriarchal authority for Islam (again, if we can) and instead...

    ...use piety for these pagans. We obviously can't do personal deities for all of them (though that'd be cool) but it'd add another level of detail to the no doubt numerous pagans.

    I can't think of anything else, either. There's also Mithraism as a major religion in South India and Southeast Asia.

    Maybe less Buddhism and more Confucianism in China?

    I love this (and you :p)

    Insular sounds much better than Druid anyway.

    Camelot is ruled by Saber so it's a bit of a special case. It was actually supposed to be #7 (now Brython) but Mech kind of threatened us at knifepoint to change it to #8.

    I love the idea of a culture divide between Arabized #9 and still-Celtic Elmet.

    But yeah, about #9, what Civ'ed said. It's not going to be Angle or Saxon because both are still in Denmark or Germany.

    Regarding start events, I was thinking the same thing actually.
     
  18. Krzowwh

    Krzowwh King

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    So what do we have so far in Japan? We have a concensus that Hata clan should be plausible and good for flavor. Kuroba and Baraku (I presume 薔薇九?) are presumably fine for the inevitable quasi-plausible puns. Should we just go for the full pun route and add in a Nadeshiko of Yamato and a Hinomoto clan led by shaman queen Oniko? Because if so, I obviously endorse that plan.
     
  19. SouthernKing

    SouthernKing crickety cricket

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    Deva Loka
    Feel free :p

    ---

    New labelled map, Joan's Spanish map edits added.

    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :
    1. Ierne (Hellenic Ireland)
    2. Dal Raida
    3. Alba
    4. Bernicia
    5. Rheged
    6. Elmet
    7. (Druidic Britain)
    8. Camelot
    9. (Islamic Britain)
    10. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    11. Armorica (Druidic)
    12. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    13. Lutetia
    14. Pictavia
    15. Aquitania
    16. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    17. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    18. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    19. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    20. ??? (Celtic/Muslim)
    21. Massalia
    22. Tarraconensis
    23. Lusitania
    24. Tartessos
    25. ???
    26. Italya (Muslim)
    27. Rome (or SPQR or whatever)
    28. Venezia
    29. ???
    30. ???
    31. Allemannia
    32. Francia
    33. Frisia
    34. Saxony
    35. Marcomannia
    36. Vandalia
    37. Angleland
    38. ???
    39. ???
    40. Sami
    41. Finland
    42. Estonia
    43. Latvia
    44. Lithuania
    45. Prussia
    46. Yotvingia
    47. ??? (Buddhist)
    48. Antea (Zoroastrian Slavs) (might be changed)
    49. ???
    50. Illyria (Ethiopia-analogue)
    51. ???
    52. Citerior
    ---
    Greek HRE States:
    53. Epirus
    54. Macedon
    55. Thracia
    56. Larissa
    57. Athens
    58. Corinth
    59. Sparta
    60. Syracuse
    61. Rhodes
    62. Caria
    63. Lesbos
    64. Troy
    65. Bithynia
    66. Phrygia
    67. Lydia
    68. Taurimark (Hellenized Norwegian colony)
    ---
    69. ??? (It's in Denmark. In other words, SK can't count.)
    70. Byzantium
    71. Scythia
    72. ???
    73. ???
    74. Galinida
    75. ??? (Norse descendents perhaps?)
    76. ???
    77. ???
    78. Moksha (Buddhist)
    79. ???
    80. ??? (some eastern horde maybe)
    81. Taman
    82. Colchis
    83. Pontus
    84. Armenia
    85. Taurus
    86. Cappadocia (Muslim)
    87. Antioch
    88. Byblos
    89. Tyre
    90. Israel
    91. Damietta?
    92. Alexandria?
    93. ???
    94. ???
    95. ???
    96. Jihadist Ethiopia
    97. Christian something ruling over Muslim holy sites
    98. ???
    99. Nabatea (no idea what religion this is)
    100. Damascus
    101. Palmyra
    102. Assyria
    103. Lakhmidia (Christian Arab tribe who settled there and is now a full state)
    104. The Abba (Pope)
    105. Nineveh
    106. Arbela
    107. Azerbaijan
    108. Ecbatana
    109. Susa
    110. ???
    111. ???
    112. ??? (Buddhist)
    113. Organa (yes this is an actual name, not a pun)
    114. Persia
    115. Hyrcania (Persian vassal)
    116. Parthia (Persian vassal with cores on a number of surrounding provinces)
    117. (*maybe* a Persian vassal)
    118. (Persian vassal)
    119. ???
    120. ???
    121. Chorasmia
    122. ???
    123. Jaxartes (or Transoxiana but Jaxartes is a far cooler name)
    124. Fergana
    125. Bactria or Gandhara
    126. ???
    127. Indica
    128. Kashmir?
    129. ??? (Hellenic)
    130. Aorsia (Zoroastrian?)
    131. ???
    132. Dalmasca
    133. ???
    134. ???
    135. ???
    136. ???
    137. ???
    138. ???
    139. ???
    140. ???
    141. ???
    142. ???
    143. Assaka
    144. Karnataka
    145. Kerala (Center of the Mithraism)
    146. Pandya
    147. Amaravati
    148. Kalinga
    149. Magadha
    150. ???
    151. Manipur
    152. Monyul
    153. Nepal
    154. Tibet
    155. Kashgar
    156. Kucha
    157. Khotan
    158. Qarqan
    159. Turfan
    160. Testveri (Magyars)
    161. Mohe (name?)
    162. Tuunghai
    ---
    Chinese Hegemony (Shogunate mechanics)
    163. Ping
    164. Huaxia
    165. Luo
    166. Nei
    167. Ye
    168. Jiang
    ---
    169. Xie (Seres, or Christosland)
    170. ??? (According to Dawn this should be a relative backwater state, a sort of Chinese Mississippi)
    171. Gyong Tsrag
    172. Meng Chu
    173. Min Yuet
    174. Nam Yuet
    175. Champa
    176. Khmer Empire
    177. Hellenic Indonesia (This *may* be a little too far-fetched)
    178. ??? (Mithraic)
    179. Chola (A Hindu Tamil empire exiled from its homeland by the Pandya, Chola also owns at least part of Lanka)
    180. ??? (A powerful inland Jewish state with links eastwards as well)
    181. Takrur (no idea what religion - or culture - this is)
    182. Tupi
    183. Iceland
    184. Inuit (or something; a semi-unified tribal state that emerged after the start of the Little Ice Age forced the Vinlanders south)
    185. Vinland (May need renaming)
    186. Markland (May need renaming)
    187. Huron/Wyandot
    188. Iroquois/Haudenosaunee
    189. Miami (For the record, some/all of the Native American states could use renaming into their native language or something so they're not just tribe names, but I don't know close enough about Amerindian linguistics to attempt this)
    190. Shawnee
    191. Cherokee
    192. Creek or Muscogee
    193. Choctaw
    194. Natchez
    195. Chickasaw
    196. Cahokia (The large empire and the strongest of the native states)
    197. Peoria (repurposed Illiniwek tag)
    198. Sauk
    199. Fox
    200. Sioux
    201. Pawnee
    202. Wichita
    203. Caddo
    204. The Pilgrims
    205. ???
    206. ???
    207. ???
    208. ???
    209. ???
    210. ???
    211. ???
    212. ???
    213. ???
    214. ???
     
  20. Terran Empress

    Terran Empress Hornet

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    And there goes the last vestiges of TE's Rome idea

    RIP in peace.

    :( :p
     

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