Greta Thunberg nominated for Nobel Peace Prize?

[Synobun]

Interestingly enough, you say Thunberg, who has high visibility, impact, influence, and is up for a big award, does not need any of these things. But you have more or less, at times, practically demanded that I, some guy posting on an OT of a gaming forum who the movers and shakers of the world could care less about, have several of these prerequisites, or face mockery and dismissal, or at least you've liked a few posts by others that have made those demands. I find that bizarrely and twistedly out of proportion and perspective.

Surely you can decipher a difference or two between you and Greta and the respective situations.

Unless, dare I suggest, you too are being controlled by a conspiracy of shadowy figures? Since Greta is just a puppet and all. Who pulls your strings?

 

[Patine]

Surely you can decipher a difference or two between you and Greta and the respective situations.

Unless, dare I suggest, you too are being controlled by a conspiracy of shadowy figures? Since Greta is just a puppet and all. Who pulls your strings?

I can indeed. She, like all of great influence and visibility, or, as other examples otherwise that aren't her, but are often in a similar disparity of viewpoint, great power, wealth, and/or responsibility, should be held to HIGHER standards than nobodies like you and I on some Internet forum. I am firmly with Plato on that one - and it truly makes sense, if you actually think about it.

 

[Moriarte]

Why does she need any of this? She's not a scientist and doesn't pretend to be. She's not offering a specific solution. She's a voice of public pressure; it's up to the people she's targeting to come up with viable solutions. It is not Greta's job to solve the issue, it's the job of the politicians and corporations she's speaking out against. Her entire thing is about those with the cards being the ones responsible for improvement and moving away from the burden of individual responsibility.

I respectfully disagree. All kids should have higher education. Learning, in general, is how you become independent thinker.

 

[Moriarte]

Her youth really is one of the key parts of the message. You cannot say "hey, you adults are supposed to be doing something!" once you're an adult. Everyone then shrugs and says "yeah, what ideas you got?". And then they sniff at your ideas. The icon needs to have the air of innocence and the air of victimhood. The message is that you're an adult, and you've known about the problem your whole adult life. You have an obligation to be better than you currently are.

Creating an icon bears all the problems that creating a religious icon does. It spawns fanatics.. Sniffing at each other’s ideas is very necessary, it is how we move on the ladder of progress - by questioning each other’s ideas, everything. It is science, which has the chance to change our future for the better, not a girl, which inspires teenagers all over the planet to stop studying (woo-hoo!), go on “climate strikes”, essentially depriving them of knowledge they could get at school to try tackle various climate problems in the future.

 

[Hrothbern]

how you become independent thinker

You don't need to think independent to be independent.

Being a truly independent thinker comes at a very high burden.

For yourself to bear... for others to live with.

At extremum it is one of the main sources of the fragmentation if not atomisation of our society with people scrambling

Especially at the young age and youngster age where you can learn soo easily, it is imo most important to balance that independent thinking with socialising with others. Everybody, from diversity, having another amount of need for that

Nobody is interested in people that are self-chosen intrinsically alone, often with self-pity as side effect... besides the use they can have for the group to pick their brains.

Having your own flavour of individuality related to a wider group is not only "good enough" but secures the benefits you get back from your social environment.

 

[El_Machinae]

Creating an icon bears all the problems that creating a religious icon does. It spawns fanatics.. Sniffing at each other’s ideas is very necessary, it is how we move on the ladder of progress - by questioning each other’s ideas, everything. It is science, which has the chance to change our future for the better, not a girl, which inspires teenagers all over the planet to stop studying (woo-hoo!), go on “climate strikes”, essentially depriving them of knowledge they could get at school to try tackle various climate problems in the future.

The strike is a few weeks at most. The underlying message, that adults need to step up, is the message.

What have you done such that kids need to strike? In every measurable way, their strike is the adults' fault. And since you and I knew the other adults weren't doing enough, it's our fault.

Mnuchin's joking response missed the point. She's not supposed to have studied yet, he is. And the fact that Mnuchin both has no solutions AND is actively supporting a denier means kids striking is warranted.

I respectfully disagree. All kids should have higher education. Learning, in general, is how you become independent thinker.

Yes, you'd almost say we've stolen her childhood

 

[Moriarte]

Mnuchin's joking response missed the point. She's not supposed to have studied yet, he is. And the fact that Mnuchin both has no solutions AND is actively supporting a denier means kids striking is warranted.

Let's talk about solutions.

Here is what is on offer from the activists:

Thunberg has used this week’s gathering in Davos to push for radical change on the climate emergency.

She called for an immediate exit from fossil fuel investment, an end to subsidies for the industry and a halt to investment in fossil fuel exploration and extraction by companies, banks, institutions and governments.

Make thousands of companies go bust immediately, with millions of people losing jobs and spark a world energy crysis. Immediately!

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I respectfully disagree. All kids should have higher education. Learning, in general, is how you become independent thinker.

Not all kids are suited for or desire higher education. This mindset is part of why the US has a student loan crisis. It's funny how everyone blames the kids for their own debt when this expression is pretty close to society's (and many parents) own stance on the issue.

 

[El_Machinae]

Let's talk about solutions.

You're mocking a teen? I mean, congrats.

What's your set of suggestions? More importantly, what are you doing?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

You're mocking a teen? I mean, congrats.

Oh man this got me a laugh. It's easy to lose that essential context in these discussions.

 

[amadeus]

If her ideas cannot be mocked, then why is she deserving of such a wide forum to give them? Why should high-level politicians consider them at all?

Road to hell, good intentions, yada yada yada.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

If her ideas cannot be mocked, then why is she deserving of such a wide forum to give them? Why should high-level politicians consider them at all?

Road to hell, good intentions, yada yada yada.

Who said her ideas can't be mocked?

If criticism of her were about her science being wrong, there wouldn't be an issue. Instead the criticism is 100% about how she's a young female daring to speak up.

God I'd love it if our culture obsessed about the function-fit used on her graphs being less than ideal instead of what we actually obsess over.

 

[amadeus]

To be fair, I'm not even sure what her ideas are. I know what her goals are, but what is she proposing to get there?

 

[Moriarte]

You're mocking a teen? I mean, congrats.

What's your set of suggestions?

I take it you are in support of an idea of "immediate" energy crysis? For the record, I am not. I'd rather support a gradual transition away from fossil fuels, you know, be a little considerate towards people who already have a job. There are quite a few of those.

More importantly, what are you doing?

Chatting to a bunch of nice people at CFC.

 

[Senethro]

I think she is proposing that people do something instead of doing nothing.

 

[Synobun]

I respectfully disagree. All kids should have higher education. Learning, in general, is how you become independent thinker.

I mean, that's cool, and I agree to an extent, but that's not what you said. You said she needed the education of a politician and to go to university for climate science before she can have a voice that can reach the rest of the globe. This directly ties her message to her lack of education. You're claiming that her age and high school education bankrupts her message and she should be silent. This is vastly different from this message I'm replying to now, where you're making a general comment that kids should go to school.

What part of her message do you think would be improved by a master's or PhD? Climate scientists have been howling about this and been silenced or ridiculed by the elites and corporations of the world. They are blacklisted by governments, denied funding, or otherwise simply ignored when they submit the research and the facts that show we're heading down a very negative path. Clearly it's not academic prowess that's required for serious consideration here. Public pressure by the masses is a novel idea, one that's been tried in the past to some success with various social ills. I don't see a compelling reason why on this exact ill it would suddenly be helped by careful science (which has already existed for decades and has already been ignored).

Your apparent solution has failed for longer than many of us have even been alive. You suggest Greta encourages only fanaticism. Fanaticism of what? Can you pinpoint the harm her activism is causing or will cause? Without going into hyperbole ("If Greta gets her way, thousands of companies will immediately go out of business!"). Is there a tangible harm you can see happening as a result of her underlying message of, "Hey, maybe those in power should do more to recover and protect our environment"?

(FWIW, I'm sure there's studies out there that show reducing fossil fuel subsidies and instead increasing renewable energy subsidies has a net gain in the economy. Modernization of industry always has "thousands of companies going out of business," but this does not exist in a vacuum and that space of the market is replaced by something else. Clean industry is becoming more and more profitable even with government meddling to its disadvantage.)

 

[Moriarte]

I mean, that's cool, and I agree to an extent, but that's not what you said. You said she needed the education of a politician and to go to university for climate science before she can have a voice that can reach the rest of the globe. This directly ties her message to her lack of education. You're claiming that her age and high school education bankrupts her message and she should be silent. This is vastly different from this message I'm replying to now, where you're making a general comment that kids should go to school.

Nah, the message isn't bankrupt and she shouldn't be silenced. I am saying no one will listen because the message lacks depth and consideration of others. If she said, "let's crank up emission targets in Paris accords to This number, while coming up with a solution to avert adverse economy effects. Here's what I think.." - that I understand. But that's not what she says. Immediate surrender on all fronts.

 

[Senethro]

Nah, the message isn't bankrupt and she shouldn't be silenced. I am saying no one will listen because the message lacks depth and consideration of others. If she said, "let's crank up emission targets in Paris accords to This number, while coming up with a solution to avert adverse economy effects. Here's what I think.." - that I understand. But that's not what she says. Immediate surrender on all fronts.

Doing nothing and letting the consequences win would be actually surrendering.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

If her ideas cannot be mocked, then why is she deserving of such a wide forum to give them? Why should high-level politicians consider them at all?

Road to hell, good intentions, yada yada yada.

To be fair, I'm not even sure what her ideas are. I know what her goals are, but what is she proposing to get there?

So you don't know what she's pedaling but you're absolutely certain that a young male making the same case would be ignored and that no one should pay attention to her?

 

[Socrates99]

I take it you are in support of an idea of "immediate" energy crysis? For the record, I am not. I'd rather support a gradual transition away from fossil fuels, you know, be a little considerate towards people who already have a job. There are quite a few of those.



Chatting to a bunch of nice people at CFC.

....so Bernie's version of the green new deal that has plans for a humane transition with regards to those employed in the fossil fuel industry?