Hall of Fame Rules/FAQ

[EMan]

Yes.

I haven't studied the post you highlighted but if it has to do with Civil Engineers, I have raised this issue in the past and there has been extensive discussion about it.

It was determined that it was:
1. Not a "Game Changer"
2. Probably had already been used in a number of HOF Table games
3. To ban the exploit would give an unfair advantage to the Players that may have used it to establish high scores.

Trust me, this was an issue I remember discussing at length, like it was yesterday.
In reality it was some time ago.......But the discussion and subsequent Ruling is probably in this thread somewhere.

 

[del62]

I knew about this exploit, and had accidently used in it in a game, and informed tone, however I have hardly ever used it maybe on three pccaions in my histographic (and felt guilty abount it), since it feels wrong, even when in a number of games I could have taken real advantage by using it, histographic and certain types of cultural 100k games are were it is usually helpful.

I think the problem is it can be used by accident when you try shortrushing,

although i never used in the cities to quite the extent shown by paperbeetle

 

[EMan]

...I think the problem is it can be used by accident when you try shortrushing...

This is a good point. No question that you can do it without realizing what's going on.

 

[Spoonwood]

Thanks guys! I'll definitely have to use it sometime then!

I have another question. I have a game going on (NOT finished), which I've discussed in another thread. I thought about posting screenshots from CrPViewer with it. I opened up CrPViewer on one of the old saves of the game (after I had everyone's map) thinking I might post a screenshot. But, as soon as I opened it, I realized that if I unchecked the "resource filter" in CrPViewer I could see advanced resources, which I didn't know about yet. Of course, I didn't un-check the resource filter box and immediately shut down CrPViewer on that save. The question I have goes... "Did I mess up my game for submission by loading CrPViewer like that?"

 

[Tone]

As long as you left the spoiler alone it should be fine.

CRp suite is a permitted set of utilities, Indeed, Dianthus created these utilities and also the software behind the HOF checks. However, people should be wary of using some of these. The spoiler info is just one click away; a momentory loss of concentration could be disasterous!

 

[Spoonwood]

Thanks Tone!

 

[Spoonwood]

Denniz said this a few years ago about the short-rushing/civil engineer tricks.

We will continue to allow this but plan to add it to the Borderline tab. A couple shields here and there hardly seem to be a big problem. But, as we have learned with Emsworth Agreements, things can go too far.

Too far is defined by the point where that little voice tells you you've probably gone to far. If you are not sure where that point is then you probably should ask someone before you submit it.

Nothing ever got added to the borderline tab.

I don't see it as all that big of a deal, especially on higher levels, since you can get a fair amount of useful structures from the AIs at higher levels. Also, if you have say 400 cities and save 10 shields in each city, you can potentially save 16,000 gold... actually thinking more on this, I don't think this tactic could get to the point where you've taken it too far, since without it you'll still put those structures in, and you save what... maybe 10 turns overall on hospitals/markets/granaries/harbors/courthouses/police stations if doing it on a huge map? That doesn't seem like such a big deal to me.

I have another question:

As I understand it, you can find the Austrians in the editor if you look (you aren't creating another tribe, they're actually there as militaristic and industrious with a 7/3/3 calvary replacement). Can the Austrians get used in a HoF game, if no other changes get made in the editor?

 

[Tone]

I'm afraid that the Austrians are out of bounds for HOF. I know that the GOTM series used them once (at least) as I remember playing that game but I don't think that our software can cope with an Austrian entry.

As for the addition to the borderline tab for the CE bug, I'll arrange for something to be added.

 

[Spoonwood]

In post 98 superslug that any 2050 victory will count as a histographic game. Just to make things clear here, if I say kill off all AIs on my turn in 2049, and settle territory so that I have 100% of the tiles that count towards the domination limit on my turn in 2049 (add in population to those cities also, of course) then click "next turn" on my turn in 2049, if I submit and it gets accepted, I'll have a histographic victory instead of a conquest or domination victory, correct?

 

[EMan]

I am 99% sure that is correct. (Unless there has been a change since Post 98?)

But, The Civ3 HOF Gods must Speak!

 

[Tone]

I also believe this to be true but I am searching for a post by Dianthus (IIRC) or possibly Superslug with the order in which the software checks for win conditions. Certainly nothing has changed in this respect since I've been on the HOF staff. When I find it I'll let you know.

 

[Spoonwood]

I have an AI which has only one city, but has some 407 gpt I can obtain from them for 20 turns. But, they almost surely won't have that gpt for 20 turns (and I feel pretty sure their gpt "comes from nowhere" from another AI). They only have one city in a tundra area. See here. I understand that sometimes in a game where you sell techs for gpt (such as an upper level space or diplomatic game), money ends up "coming from nowhere" for a while due to a GA, that AI getting pulverized in a war, etc., but in my experience you can never quite tell exactly when this has happened. In this case, since I've pulverized the AI (the Hittites) which I'm almost completely sure the gpt comes from in the first place (the Hittites probably did have that much gpt when they started paying gpt to Babylon, but I don't see how they can now), can I make that deal with Babylon for their gpt?

Edit: Here's what has tripped me up:

Giving the AI more gpt that you can afford or accepting more gpt than the AI can afford.

This is disallowed as it results in putting 'free' money into the international economy. While fixed for C3C, it is banned for all versions for the sake of consistency.

I didn't give either of the AIs here more gpt than I could afford. But, I could accept more gpt than the Babylonians could afford at some point... though they can afford that money *now*.

But, reading this:

Negative GPT

Negative GPT is a budget state where two things are going on. First, your total expenses are higher than your income. Second, you don't have enough treasury savings to cover the next turn's defecit. Building and unit disband penalties vary by level.

However, when in negative GPT, you may not give any AI any of your gold, either in lump sums or gpt deals. This is known as double-negative GPT and banned. Consequently, if you have an active deal with your GPT going to an AI, you may not go into negative GPT.

If, on the other hand, you are losing money but have savings to cover it, you may give the AI your money.

You may always receive money from the AI.

I don't see why I couldn't get that gpt from Babylon, correct?

Edit: I found this from Denniz.

 

[Spoonwood]

I also believe this to be true but I am searching for a post by Dianthus (IIRC) or possibly Superslug with the order in which the software checks for win conditions. Certainly nothing has changed in this respect since I've been on the HOF staff. When I find it I'll let you know.

If there's any doubt that this has happened before, check Moonsinger's #1 histographic game 2050 AD save. She has 10 spaceship parts built, which means she did build the spaceship on her final turn. Of course, that doesn't say anything about how to make sure that such a submission goes on the histographic game table.

 

[Tone]

In post 98 superslug that any 2050 victory will count as a histographic game. Just to make things clear here, if I say kill off all AIs on my turn in 2049, and settle territory so that I have 100% of the tiles that count towards the domination limit on my turn in 2049 (add in population to those cities also, of course) then click "next turn" on my turn in 2049, if I submit and it gets accepted, I'll have a histographic victory instead of a conquest or domination victory, correct?

Well it took a while to find but I can confirm that any 2050AD victory will be counted as a Histographic win.

I still haven't found the post I was looking for, giving the hierarchy of win conditions for multiple VC's being triggered on the same turn, but I am now 100% sure that Histographic is at the top of that.

By the way, whilst I was searching I came across an interesting thread exploring the idea of a special award for HOF games that triggered all VC's in 2050AD:

The last AI city has to be wiped out in 2049.
The imperial culture has to cross 100k(/160kC3C) between 2049 and 2050.
The city culture has to cross 20k between 2049 and 2050.
The spaceship has to be launched in 2049.
Domination has to be crossed between 2049 and 2050 (probably easy though as a result of 100k).
A successful UN vote has to be held in 2050.

The idea of the award was actually shelved but if you're up for a personal challenge...? Culture, spaceship, domination and conquest should be managable without much effort (unless I am missing something) but getting the election sorted would be some feat IMO.

 

[superslug]

As I recall, SirPleb did something like that in a famous GOTM that really impressed me.

 

[Spoonwood]

Here you guys go. I don't think the election part difficult. Have one AI with one town, and the other with two. Sign the AI with one town in a military alliance against the AI with two. Getting the 20k to time right I'd think hardest.

 

[Lord AJ]

Can I have a map with 2 civs starting very close to each other for submission in conquest category ? If yes then please could someone tell me how to change the. starting positions in map editor. I'm having Civilization 3 Vanilla. Appreciate any help.

 

[Calis]

You arenot allowed to change anything with the map editor, if you want to submit the game to the hall of fame. You have to roll for a map that fulfills your wishes.

 

[Lord AJ]

You arenot allowed to change anything with the map editor, if you want to submit the game to the hall of fame. You have to roll for a map that fulfills your wishes.

Thanks man. You saved me a lot of time.

 

[EMan]

You can save even more time if you utilize Moonsinger's Map Finder utility program to generate maps according to your parameters. This program is permissible for generating maps to be used in HOF submissions. (It's 11 years old but still a Great Utility Program!)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=75992