Hammurabi - Immortal Cookbook

[Dhoomstriker]

While I think that it is great that Fierabras and CivConVict have already taken good strides in their wars, I'd like to have a chance to do the fighting ourselves. I think that we'll learn more about fighting a war this way.

So, my votes are:
Grashopa = 3 points. A war of Chariots it will be, and we'll get to execute the entire war ourselves.


GKey = 2 points. While I don't understand why our 2 Chariots are out to the west when we are at war with Alex in the east and said Chariots could be harassing Alex, the fact still stands that we own those Chariots and they can turn around and come back to the east within a reasonable time frame.

We also have some Axemen and have already weakened Alex a bit. I still think that Alex is actually far weaker in my game due to my Woodsman II Warrior harassing Alex (a Chariot or two really should be doing that in GKey's game), but GKey has actually built us a partial army so that we can push Military Units towards Alex within a short period of time.


drlake = 1 point. Not only did he explore a bit before settling to help him find what I believe is going to be the best medium-term capital location, but he also placed his other City in a good location and will soon have that 2nd City working 2 improved squares (a situation for City #2 that is better than anyone else's game).

He's left us room to capture the Fail Fish and he's left us space to grab a Cow + multiple-Hills City to the east of our capital, for additional low-Maintenance production. Further, he's fog-busted the Gold location and has a Settler almost ready to go for there. We can slowly start to pump out Axemen while we hook up the Gold, then take on the AI of our choice.

I'd go for Alex, since Alex has a 2nd Gold Mine (which is a really strong Gold Resource, being on a Grassland Hills square instead of a Plains Hills square), so Athens will be an awesome City to capture. Alex won't know what hit him, since we've stayed at peace with Alex in drlake's game. Finally, drlake can trade with Justinian, which is something that we can't do in most games, so we can garner a bit of an ally so that we don't get stabbed in the back when we send our armies deep into Alex's lands.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

I will never understand why these things have to be either 50 or 100. Why not pick a more suitable number inbetween the two?

Please define "more suitable."

Are you suggesting that, say, Turn 70 is a better cut-off time? If not, then what values would be suitable in your opinion?


Or are you suggesting a more radical idea, such that we should play until we have accomplished at least 1 of the following cut-off goals:
1. We own 4 Cities
OR
2. We have researched Writing
OR
3. We have built or captured a World Wonder

People will end their games on different dates, but they'll be prevented from progressing too far. Also, they'll have some possible goals to shoot for, which may help them in making beneficial, short-term strategic decisions. Finally, they can end their turnset when they choose, rather than when the game chooses--the game chooses by having a particular date elapse, but the player can delay a particular goal if necessary (saving up Gold while researching Writing) if they feel the need to complete another build item or do whatever it is that they need to do to make their saved game more appealing to others.

Games might be harder to compare, but we'll more clearly see what particular strategy a player took, how they approached it, and how long it took them to be successful at it.

 

[Grashopa]

Theres no way to know when the big decisions need to be made and when it will be obvious they paid off. The cookbook isn't about that, its about playing a short set that others are playing and seeing the differences in play more closely. Which is better axes or chariots you can see in a regular forum game.

 

[Rusten]

I'm not saying you should change the system. I have nothing invested into the game, I just find it amusing that's all. I've been watching games/series like this on the forum for a few years now and it keeps rotating between 50 and 100 turns yet every time people say 50 is too short and 100 is too long. Time to reconsider the length me thinks.

OCD civers... MUST...HAVE....ROUND.....NUMBERS....

 

[kossin]

69 turns, anyone?

 

[oppy]

After looking at the scoring criteria, I'm so sad I didn't attack with my chariots I just thought people would want to make their own decision in the second round about who to kill.

 

[oppy]

Also if I had to say, I think around ~1500 B.C you can really see how the player is planning his game. That's about the time people who are going for say pyramids or great lighthouse can have a large amount of hammers in. Also oracle seems to go between 1500-2000 so that's another step. Finally chariot rushes tend to be done by 1500 B.C.

 

[GKey]

After looking at the scoring criteria, I'm so sad I didn't attack with my chariots I just thought people would want to make their own decision in the second round about who to kill.

I do agree with you, but have to admit that having AI capital down on turn 48 is kinda impressive (not without luck though, only 1 chariot lost?! Still impressive.) Currently it's looks like we will play from civconvict's save. And despite his success, personally I would prefer to play from the save where the fight is about to start.

Btw our host said he could pick save on his own. Let's see kossin's choice.

 

[Nothingontv]

Another problem with the numbers-based approach is that it's only 50 turns in the game. A lot of saves are going to capture stuff in the next couple of turns. Giving points after 100 turns seems more fair to me.

Sorry it seems i quoted more then i intended. I didn't agree with the giving points after 100 turns part, i simply meant that for me personally it's difficult to judge saves based solely on the micromanagement part.
I actually considered not voting at all because of that.

 

[Nothingontv]

Currently it's looks like we will play from civconvict's save.

Funny because i actually rated this save quite low.

I made some notes on most saves and this is what it says about CivConVic's.

Taking Athens is nice but Alexander still has 2 other cities and one of them might have copper. I don’t think he can be beaten with this amount of chariots. His nearest city is on a hill.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Currently it's looks like we will play from civconvict's save.

Actually, the scoring is tied right now, if my addition skills aren't failing me. We need more people to vote in order to be able to break the tie.

 

[vranasm]

well sometimes you don't need to kill AI off completely and just take the best and leave him crippled.

I admit I didnt review the saves since I missed the 1st round, but on some ocasions you just take best and leave it for later...

 

[CivConVict]

I agree that we should pick a save other than mine for the next round. While I appreciate the votes, my strategy was plain and simple and there's hardly anything more to be said or learned about it, that won't just as easily be learned from many other saves (i.e. finishing and recovering from an early rush) that will leave you more choices to continue.

Also, I was lucky to catch Alexander with his 3rd settler just leaving his capitol. Normally there would be 1-3 chariots less left in my stack.

 

[sadmachines]

@Dhoom

Spoiler :

While I agree with your choice of working Plains Hills squares in the capital for production, you are essentially "wasting" two Food-based Resources (at least for as long as we're stuck at a Happiness cap of 5). I'm not sure what to suggest to do about it, other than perhaps to plop another City down on our Plains Wine River square, to be able to share some of the capital's Food-based squares.

Yes, I have noticed this in a few of my games recently too many tiles to work and not enough happiness. I don't know if I want to put a 3rd city down yet as I plan on capturing some quickly. I am concerned about additional costs. Also I find that usually 2 cities is best for an early war. I see that one person decided that only one is needed. I tend to be unsuccessful in rushing with 1 city.

Writing will be ready soon and so I can chop a library in city 2. I probably won't run scientists in there any time soon but it has +2 culture instead of +1 from a monument. I should be able to pop the borders quicker this way. I wanted writing for running scientists (everywhere) after the upcoming war to make up for the inevitable financial deficit that seems to often follow an early rush. Also giving points towards great scientists.

Having read other peoples posts, I would probably attack Alex. Stealing the gold resource from him will help raise the happy cap. On the other hand Justin has a holy city so that could help too...is it possible to beat them both in two quick wars?
I have yet to switch to slavery but I don't feel as if I need it yet. Production is decent enough already, I don't need the whip.

Votes. I would most like to play from these saves and in this order:

G-key,
Civconvict,
Grashopa.

 

[kossin]

Btw our host said he could pick save on his own. Let's see kossin's choice.

Only if votes were lacking, we've had 9 voters out of a possible 15 so far so I'll give it an hour or two more before calling it a round and proceed.

 

[Edzako]

Here is my vote

Firebras 3 points

Gkey 2 points

CivConVict 1 point

 

[drlake]

Here is my vote

Firebras 3 points

Gkey 2 points

CivConVict 1 point

Why? You're supposed to explain your votes. That goes for sadmachines, too.

 

[sadmachines]

Why? You're supposed to explain your votes. That goes for sadmachines, too.

Ok, I would just be repeating the strengths listed by other posts so I will skip doing that. In addition to the other reasons in favour of these 3:

G-key - similar set up to my save, I would find this easiest to continue from. The main difference is that he picked mysticism before writing, which might be a better choice.

Civconvict - already started the attack

Grashopa - ready to attack

In both cases of Civconvict and Grashopa I noticed war slightly quicker than I would normally attack or even have enough units ready, I am interested to see how it plays out and how each player handles it. My choices were not to say which save is strongest, just which I wanted to play from for my own selfish benefit! It may be the case that others are technically better.

 

[kossin]

Round 2

With an edge of 2 points over Grashopa's ready-to-rush save, the first round's selected save by you is

***********
* Civconvict *
***********

Save Here

Feel free to discuss the coming turns and play at your leisure. As for the first round, this set will be 50 turns and go up to about Monday 0:00 GMT, where voting commences.

Anyone that has not participated in the first round is welcome to join in the fun now!

 

[Fierabras]

I'm happy to play CivConVict's save and now that it is decided I can show what could have happened in 2 of the other saves:

Grashopa:

Spoiler :

This is after 5 turns. Justinian is dead (razed 3rd city) and Stonehenge in Thessalonica!

Fierabras:

Spoiler :

This is after 13 turns. Justinian is dead and Great Wall in Constantinople!