JaeChunDaeSung
Prince
I offered this idea previously but it has yet to be implemented by anyone but Generalstaff until he had to take leave.
HAND (Hydro's A New Dawn)
- Thread starter Hydromancerx
- Start date
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I will see what I can do when I get back into the groove of things. I have been away from Civ4 for a bit. Mainly because of the frustration of my stuff not being compatible with Killtech' stuff.
generalstaff
Steadfast
Will be implemented. The more I am catching up, the more I realized that my updates are going to take a while (having to run them by Killtech for compatibility, which caused me to have to scrap a few things, but at the same time saved me some work).
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Well a lot of mine, especially the crafts mod which is more or less continuing where you early building left off, is not compatible with kills techs stuff. His mainly go where things keep getting replaced and upgraded while mine expand out in a web of interdependent buildings. Sort of like a crafting tree. Needless to say the only way I can see to work with his stuff in AND is for me to just disable his stuff.
I am not sure what you want to do when it comes to his stuff. We originally tried to work out thing but his philosophy is "less is more" while mine is "more is more" which is apparently incompatible.
generalstaff
Steadfast
My philosophy is "what is needed?" That means I look for missing niches for gameplay and history, the coffeehouse being an example of the latter, Early Buildings in general being the former, and Modular Civics Buildings being both. Since my goal is filling in the gaps, I have to maximize compatibility. Since your philosophy is "more is more," compatibility is simply making sure there is no direct overlap, which is fairly easy; the "less is more" philosophy means there has to be communication between modders.
So to answer the question about what I want to do with his stuff is simply make sure Early Buildings fits well with his mod, since just going over your mod's listing allows me to know that both our mods are compatible.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Well if you can find a away for us to be compatible with each other be my guest. However with killtechs stuff he basically replaces buildings I need as a base for the bottom of my tech tree. Thus he is reducing the number of building while I am expanding.
For example he has Weaver upgrade to Tailor while mine has the Tailor require a Weaver. In addation I have a system that works like this ...
Resource (Real) -> Resource Building -> Industrial -> Commercial
Ex. Cow -> Yak Farm -> Weavers -> Tailor
Here is part of my idea of making an entire interconnected building web.
Any help with this would be great.
generalstaff
Steadfast
That is a web. I personally like upgrades since it clears the clutter of useless obsolete buildings. However, webs are useful mechanism for unlocking important/powerful buildings (Candlemaker, Arcologies, etc.). I see both having places within RoM thanks to the large, and detailed, tech tree.
Of course, this web reminds me that I am breaking some buildings off of Early Buildings into an independent mod and will have to stop using the Pottery Resource. I plan to make a mod around textiles, which of course will use the remaining resource spot (since I was informed that the problem is unfixable). The current plan is to have the following upgrade path: Weaver's Hut => Tailor's Shop => Textile Mill.
Well, before any part of the textiles projects gets started, I have to update Early and Modular Civics Buildings, as well as add the Apadana Palace thanks too some submitted artwork.
Of course, this web reminds me that I am breaking some buildings off of Early Buildings into an independent mod and will have to stop using the Pottery Resource. I plan to make a mod around textiles, which of course will use the remaining resource spot (since I was informed that the problem is unfixable). The current plan is to have the following upgrade path: Weaver's Hut => Tailor's Shop => Textile Mill.
Well, before any part of the textiles projects gets started, I have to update Early and Modular Civics Buildings, as well as add the Apadana Palace thanks too some submitted artwork.
Killtech
Discutator
"less is more"? i've added quite some buildings with my mod so you can't reduce me to that 
(
). and the that wavers hut upgrades to tailor is Afforess work, not mine. judging by the buildings name it make sense if you ask me btw.
when you want reduce me to a motto it would be rather "the impact of changes on the game is most important". but i have a second thing that is important to me which is a certain historical accuracy and weighting by the true impact things made on history.
so as for your web my approach would be to change the weaver (in your diagram) to the complete processing upgrade chain (weaver -> tailor -> spinning mill -> textile factory) which would take the processing part of the web (and thus local - i.e. require resource in vicinity at least for pre-industrial part of the chain). the tailor i'd rename to a textile merchant/trader which has no vicinity prerequisite but a requirement of at least one processing building in your empire. and as stated above i'd drop all the farms/plantation buildings as seem very redundant and without purpose.
(). and the that wavers hut upgrades to tailor is Afforess work, not mine. judging by the buildings name it make sense if you ask me btw.when you want reduce me to a motto it would be rather "the impact of changes on the game is most important". but i have a second thing that is important to me which is a certain historical accuracy and weighting by the true impact things made on history.
no, i just try to bring some order to the whole building universe. by the names alone weaver the upgrade to tailor makes sense. on the last line i do not disagree in general. in fact i was thinking of a similar system to fix the resource health/happiness/commerce excess they cause. but: what is the legitimation to additional resource building and(!) a processing building? for me the "resource building" is already there by the tile improvement that grants access to that specific resource (a pasture on a cow resource is a cow farm. i don't get the necessity of the redundancy). as a mean for the good replacement the 'processing/industrial' building is enough if the building requires the resource in vicinity.
so as for your web my approach would be to change the weaver (in your diagram) to the complete processing upgrade chain (weaver -> tailor -> spinning mill -> textile factory) which would take the processing part of the web (and thus local - i.e. require resource in vicinity at least for pre-industrial part of the chain). the tailor i'd rename to a textile merchant/trader which has no vicinity prerequisite but a requirement of at least one processing building in your empire. and as stated above i'd drop all the farms/plantation buildings as seem very redundant and without purpose.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
See that's the thing we have to keep some as you go along. a weaver and a tailor are 2 separate things and should not be upgraded. For an upgrade I would have them work like this ...
weaver -> spinning wheel -> textile mill
and then the tailor would be ...
tailor -> seamstress -> clothing store
Thus making the weaver the industrial building type for making clothes and then the tailor the commercial side of making clothes. Both of which would keep having building dependency as they worked their way up the tech tree.
The purpose is to allow for more resources than there are currently available. There is no seal resource on the map so I have a building that requires a coastal city and ice terrain thus simulating a rare mixture of 2 terrains. I cannot have say a furrier require fur resource or a seal hunter building so I make the fur resource have a building too, thus making a building known as a fur trapper. With that I can now say a seal hunter OR fur trapper for requirements for a building.
Its a bit redundant but needs to be done if I wanted to add new "fake resources" that come about through building that require specific terrains to be in the city vicinity such as bog & desert for papyrus or jungle OR forest for a lumber camp.
Understand now?
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Well I have found a way around the pottery resource. I have made a fake clay resource which requires the "clay pit" building to only be built in cities with rivers. Then the pottery hut requires a clay pit to be built.
Likewise my lumber stuff uses a fake lumber resource and then things like the outpost and palisade walls require lumber to build.
Please install A New Dawn 1.73 and HAND v1.2 to see what I mean before you go off modding some more.
generalstaff
Steadfast
It will be a while before I start to scrap pottery, I still have to do my updates (yes I know this creates more work for me in the long run, but some of these need to be done). My issue is that the pottery resource is pretty weak compared to what can be done with textiles. Pottery grants a minor bonus, slightly speeds construction of the Graveyard, and a happiness bonus at one building, also, Pottery obsoletes. I plan on having textiles speed the construction of a few buildings and add happiness at a few buildings. It is likely that I will still keep the Potter's Hut, I will have to do some minor redesigning though.
I do get what is done with using a fake resource, it is how the Candlemaker is done, since it requires the Butchery and Apiary rather than needing Lard and Wax resources added to the game.
Killtech
Discutator
makes sense.
so if you want these additional resources added i would suggest to make a base package for the normal resources that are already in game without the extra buildings and a special extension with the additional buildings representing the new resources. the basic pack could leave out the redundant buildings. the extension could add them and add special prerequisites to existing buildings. after all so many buildings are not everyones taste.
and another thing is that i it seems that one can build both a yak farm and a cow farm in some cities and thus score the double bonus from both buildings.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Exactly. I mean I was my suggestion to do that back then. If I had known how to make it back then then I would have made it myself.
1. That's what I have been trying to do so far I have ...
- Cannabis Plantation
- Cotton Plantation
- Cow Farm
- Elephant Trainer
- Horse Farm
- Pig Farm
- Reindeer Farm*
- Sheep Farm
- Silk Farm
And for new "Fake Resources" I have ...
- Camel Farm
- Cat Breeder
- Chicken Coop
- Clay Pit
- Cormorant Trainer
- Donkey Farm
- Dog Breeder
- Duck and Goose Farm
- Falconer
- Goat Farm
- Homing Pigeon Coop
- Llama and Alpaca Farm
- Lumber Camp
- Monkey Breeder
- Oxen Farm
- Parrot Aviary
- Papyrus Grove
- Seal Hunter's Camp
- Turkey Farm
- Yak Farm
* = Could be a new type of resource.
2. Yes that would be true. However a yak acts more like a sheep resource.
Cow = Meat, Hide, Milk
Yak = Milk, Wool
So yes you could get double milk resource. However since its only allowing for the dairy then I don't think its that big of a deal.
dudeSDCA
Prince
Cool list of resources. Two recommendations:
1) Be sure that the resources are tied to both positive and negative effects for balance. A big issue that Killtech is after is using the building upgrades to balance issues with too much commerce / research / happiness. So (and this is a bad example), but maybe Seal Hunter's camp gives +2
with the Green Civic or when ecology is discovered. Or Donkey farm gives +1 
because of all the donkey crap 
2) I would recommend working with Afforess to put the resource buildings on a special line in the building queue to differentiate them from "production" buildings. What I mean is that units, buildings, national wonders, great wonders, and then the research/culture/money all get their own lines in the queue, and I would think it's important to make sure people realize they're building a resource (and it's different than normal production). I like the way some of the resources are currently implemented (oil refinery, aluminum factory, filing factory, etc.)
And, generally speaking, I like the idea of requiring you get certain resources before you can build resources or get upgrades for some buildings
1) Be sure that the resources are tied to both positive and negative effects for balance. A big issue that Killtech is after is using the building upgrades to balance issues with too much commerce / research / happiness. So (and this is a bad example), but maybe Seal Hunter's camp gives +2
with the Green Civic or when ecology is discovered. Or Donkey farm gives +1 because of all the donkey crap 2) I would recommend working with Afforess to put the resource buildings on a special line in the building queue to differentiate them from "production" buildings. What I mean is that units, buildings, national wonders, great wonders, and then the research/culture/money all get their own lines in the queue, and I would think it's important to make sure people realize they're building a resource (and it's different than normal production). I like the way some of the resources are currently implemented (oil refinery, aluminum factory, filing factory, etc.)
And, generally speaking, I like the idea of requiring you get certain resources before you can build resources or get upgrades for some buildings
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@dudeSDCA
1. Good idea about the seal hunter's camp.
2. The donkey farm and other animals farms already have negative health due to their poop.
3. I don't think Afforess wants anything to do with my mods.
That's why I had to make this mod in the first place since Afforess kicked my mods out of AND awhileback.
4. Thanks for the feed back. I wish I had more time to work on this or even play civ. but I have had a lot of other stuff on my plate at the moment.
1. Good idea about the seal hunter's camp.
2. The donkey farm and other animals farms already have negative health due to their poop.
3. I don't think Afforess wants anything to do with my mods.
That's why I had to make this mod in the first place since Afforess kicked my mods out of AND awhileback.4. Thanks for the feed back. I wish I had more time to work on this or even play civ. but I have had a lot of other stuff on my plate at the moment.
generalstaff
Steadfast
Just letting you know that my upcoming release will include the following, which has some overlap:
-Modular Civics Buildings (There is some overlap)
-Towers
-Radio
-Wilderness
-Liquor Store
I am keeping the building removal changes Afforess did to Early Buildings, and the Weavers and Tailor are moved to a different module. I just want to make sure you know what is happening.
-Modular Civics Buildings (There is some overlap)
-Towers
-Radio
-Wilderness
-Liquor Store
I am keeping the building removal changes Afforess did to Early Buildings, and the Weavers and Tailor are moved to a different module. I just want to make sure you know what is happening.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@generalstaff
Thanks for letting me know. I will take them out since I only put them in since you were gone. However I will have to just override your palisade wall and outpost since I have them require lumber resource. Other than that no stat changes.
Thanks for letting me know. I will take them out since I only put them in since you were gone. However I will have to just override your palisade wall and outpost since I have them require lumber resource. Other than that no stat changes.
generalstaff
Steadfast
Thanks. BTW, I have to add you to the credits for maintaining projects. I also like the expansion, especially since all of this is an expansion of Rise of Mankind after all.
I also have to add that for the upcoming Textiles module is using dependencies so that it gives bonuses to a few of the buildings in your mod. I hope that saves you some work as well since it is a project I have wanted to for a while.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I am officially putting this project in limbo. Sorry for the lack of updates but I have been busy with other things.
Grathocke
Marquis
Too bad. I hope you'll be able to continue soon...
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