Has Microsoft stumbled?

[aimeeandbeatles]

Yeah, other than 7's flashier UI and annoying library things, theyre pretty much the same when it comes to usage.

 

[Mr.WorldWide]

Still using x64 Vista here on my laptop.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

I do think Microsoft can recover from there errors with Windows 8 but they need to not force people to use that Metro crap. Make the desktop and start menu the default interface for Windows 9. If someone wants to use Metro or the start screen, they can enable it.

 

[Mr.WorldWide]

In answer to the poll I voted 'no'.

MS has alot going for them besides 8, if the question was 'could windows 8 be in trouble?' Then I would 'yes but they can recover'. MS isn't going anywhere and there are plenty of 'trend' users who don't give a damn what freedoms they loose while MS is logging their every thought.
Cheers.

 

[Zelig]

I do think Microsoft can recover from there errors with Windows 8 but they need to not force people to use that Metro crap. Make the desktop and start menu the default interface for Windows 9. If someone wants to use Metro or the start screen, they can enable it.

I have excellent news for you sir! Metro is already optional!

 

[Zelig]

http://www.microsoft.com/investor/E...s/PressReleaseAndWebcast/FY13/Q3/default.aspx

Microsoft quarterly revenue up eight percent year-over-year after subtracting revenue from the Windows 8 upgrade offer, Office upgrade offer and video game deferrals.

Seems pretty dire.

 

[innonimatu]

I have excellent news for you sir! Metro is already optional!

What, you're admitting that making it optional is a good thing?

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

The desktop and start menu should be the DEFAULT interface.

 

[Zelig]

What, you're admitting that making it optional is a good thing?

Yes, selling exclusively Windows RT would not be good.

The desktop and start menu should be the DEFAULT interface.

Provide a case for which the start menu is better than the start screen.

 

[innonimatu]

Yes, selling exclusively Windows RT would not be good.

Windows RT, you mean that thing no OEM will touch and MS itself can't sell the hardware inventory it ordered to peddle it?

That sure is not good!

Provide a case for which the start menu is better than the start screen.

Microsoft was retained a near-monopoly on desktop operating systems for 20 years with basically the same GUI. Alternatives have always been available, both for windows and as part of other operating systems. Yet the desktop paradigm with a menu of programs endured.

Are we to believe that people everywhere were enlightened, after 20 years, with a revelation that this paradigm was bad and a collection of big icons jumbled across the scree is good? That playing at guessing the names of programs, sorry, "apps", or whatever copycat name Microsoft made up to avoid being sued by Apple, is good? And this despite the tools used for controlling a desktop computer having remained the safe for the past 30 years?

Or can it just be that Microsoft made a huge mistake in its attempt to leverage on the desktop near-monopoly to sell its late mobile device OS, which is too little, too late, and too expensive to gain any foothold?

You want use cases? You have received use cases, plenty. Several people here keep tell you: they prefer the old OS, they prefer to search for programs from a menu. That is a use case: "press a button icon, obtain a menu with a representation of the installed programs (user customizable) that otherwise is kept hidden, and pick one program to launch".

And while you're at it, make it so that the damn program opens in a resizeable window, and allow several windows if you're calling your damn operating system "windows". And make the icon labeled shutdown actually shut down the computer!

About those revenue numbers: Microsoft's future seems so rosy for the insiders that the CFO is packing to leave.

 

[Zelig]

Are we to believe that people everywhere were enlightened, after 20 years, with a revelation that this paradigm was bad and a collection of big icons jumbled across the scree is good? That playing at guessing the names of programs, sorry, "apps", or whatever copycat name Microsoft made up to avoid being sued by Apple, is good? And this despite the tools used for controlling a desktop computer having remained the safe for the past 30 years?

No, Quicksilver and Alfred are much better, you're simply to believe it's no worse than Windows 7.

You want use cases? You have received use cases, plenty. Several people here keep tell you: they prefer the old OS, they prefer to search for programs from a menu. That is a use case: "press a button icon, obtain a menu with a representation of the installed programs (user customizable) that otherwise is kept hidden, and pick one program to launch".

That's not a use case. A use case is "open a program", which is best accomplished by typing in either Windows 7 or Windows 8.

And while you're at it, make it so that the damn program opens in a resizeable window, and allow several windows if you're calling your damn operating system "windows".

You don't have to use any Metro apps, desktop ones still work exactly the same as Windows 7.

And make the icon labeled shutdown actually shut down the computer!

Push the power button on your computer.

About those revenue numbers: Microsoft's future seems so rosy for the insiders that the CFO is packing to leave.

Employees come and go all the time, there's really no indication that the CFO is leaving because of the future financial future of MS. Far more worrying to MS than some bean counter leaving should be all the high-profile software execs who've left in the past few years. (Steven Sinofsky, Ray Ozzie, Jeff Raikes, Robbie Bach, J Allard)

 

[innonimatu]

That's not a use case. A use case is "open a program", which is best accomplished by typing in either Windows 7 or Windows 8.

If people want to open a program by picking it with the mouse from a full list of installed programs then that is a sue case. No number of denials from you will work to pretend it isn't.

Push the power button on your computer.

Yay, back to the DOS days we go! Let the user make an additional action reaching for a physical button. The OS can't even provide a means of shutting down the computer from the user interface any more. That's progress for you!

 

[Zelig]

If people want to open a program by picking it with the mouse from a full list of installed programs then that is a sue case. No number of denials from you will work to pretend it isn't.

But it really isn't.

Those people were doing it poorly in Windows 7 anyway, they should be grateful that Windows 8 helps them improve their workflow.

Yay, back to the DOS days we go! Let the user make an additional action reaching for a physical button. The OS can't even provide a means of shutting down the computer from the user interface any more. That's progress for you!

It's hard to use the UI without using any physical buttons.

If you're on a desktop (rather than a laptop) where accessing the physical button is inconvenient, I suggest not shutting down, I can't really think of any good reason to shut down on a regular basis. By far the biggest problem with the UI in Windows is that there's no single key shortcut to lock the system and turn off the screens.

 

[Mr.WorldWide]

I can't really think of any good reason to shut down on a regular basis.

Indeed! Heaven forbid a win8 user actually turns off their PC. That would spoil MS's heinous plan for an "always on" (aka always spying) experience. OMG!, what would I do if I didn't have my PC on 24/7 so MS can push botched patches on me at their whim?

Every night when I go to sleep I turn my PC off. Why? Saves a small amount of power, it allows my system to start fresh again(most common tech support response, "did you restart your computer"?). And most importantly, it won't be surreptitiously sending and receiving data from the internet.

And yes, when I shut down my PC I don't use the physical power button which takes me back to win 95 days.

 

[Zelig]

Indeed! Heaven forbid a win8 user actually turns off their PC. That would spoil MS's heinous plan for an "always on" (aka always spying) experience. OMG!, what would I do if I didn't have my PC on 24/7 so MS can push botched patches on me at their whim?

Every night when I go to sleep I turn my PC off. Why? Saves a small amount of power, it allows my system to start fresh again(most common tech support response, "did you restart your computer"?). And most importantly, it won't be surreptitiously sending and receiving data from the internet.

And yes, when I shut down my PC I don't use the physical power button which takes me back to win 95 days.

You can fairly trivially disable any communication Windows has with MS servers through GUI OS options.

The difference between sleep mode and off mode is about 3 watts, I hope you've carefully selected every component of your PC for optimal efficiency, or any single component will use far more than this while your computer is on.

Windows 8 doesn't need to start fresh, other than a monthly reboot for updates.

Unless you specifically enable Intel Smart Connect, your PC won't be sending and receiving data from the internet while it's in sleep mode. And really, if you have programs you don't want accessing the internet, you should probably just block them from doing so.

Any other concerns?

 

[Mr.WorldWide]

You can fairly trivially disable any communication Windows has with MS servers through GUI OS options.

Doesn't get much eaiser than a shutdown. :| Unless ofc you have to hunt for the button in windows 8...

The difference between sleep mode and off mode is about 3 watts, I hope you've carefully selected every component of your PC for optimal efficiency, or any single component will use far more than this while your computer is on.

Since this is a laptop I would hope it's energy consumption is optimized.

Windows 8 doesn't need to start fresh, other than a monthly reboot for updates.

Or if you make hardware changes such as disabling the sound card. In the best of worlds Windows 8 only needs restarting once a month. Since our world is far from perfect, I'm not buying it. Link me up some proof.

 

[Zelig]

Doesn't get much eaiser than a shutdown. :| Unless ofc you have to hunt for the button in windows 8...

Well really, I can't think of any reason why you'd be okay with your OS phoning home to MS during the daytime, but not at night.

Since this is a laptop I would hope it's energy consumption is optimized.

Since it's a laptop, why not hit the physical power button? There is no possible OS GUI design that makes hitting a software power button easier than the hardware one.

Or if you make hardware changes such as disabling the sound card. In the best of worlds Windows 8 only needs restarting once a month. Since our world is far from perfect, I'm not buying it. Link me up some proof.

Common knowledge, any modern OS is easily fine for a month without rebooting.

Don't make pointless hardware changes like disabling a soundcard on a regular basis.

 

[Mr.WorldWide]

Well really, I can't think of any reason why you'd be okay with your OS phoning home to MS during the daytime, but not at night.

I monitor my usage and terminate or block connections I don't approve of. That's not possible when I'm away from my PC.

Since it's a laptop, why not hit the physical power button? There is no possible OS GUI design that makes hitting a software power button easier than the hardware one.

Because it's was easier to use the mouse instead. This is also the difference between clicking the start button and pressing the start button on the keyboard - it's easier.

Common knowledge, any modern OS is easily fine for a month without rebooting.

Common knowledge? Where is your proof?. I could make any outrageous claim and say it's common knowledge.

And what defines 'modern' for you? Windows 8?

 

[Zelig]

I monitor my usage and terminate or block connections I don't approve of. That's not possible when I'm away from my PC.

So rather than just disabling phoning home in the first place, you regularly block the connections whenever they try to happen?

Because it's was easier to use the mouse instead. This is also the difference between clicking the start button and pressing the start button on the keyboard - it's easier.

No, using the mouse to move the cursor, click, move the cursor and click again is not easier than pushing a single key on the keyboard.

I don't even know what your point is about clicking the start button and pressing the start button on the keyboard?

Common knowledge? Where is your proof?. I could make any outrageous claim and say it's common knowledge.

Claiming that Windows needs to be rebooted more than on a monthly basis would be outrageous.

And what defines 'modern' for you? Windows 8?

Non-exclusively, any version of Windows/Mac OS/Linux/Solaris/BSD released since 2006 sees essentially no benefit from being rebooted any more often than monthly.

 

[Iranon]

Windows still develops the odd issue that warrants a (proper) reboot, and sometimes more... since the gremlins aren't nice enough to synchronise with scheduled updates, that claim seems far from outrageous.

Unixes of any age shouldn't require frequent reboots... if anything, newer OSX versions seem slightly less robust.