Have lefties already stolen the 2008 election??

[bhsup]

http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation/story/832923.html

They said the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, “clogged the system” by hiring workers who submitted registrations with fake names, addresses and signatures.


“There was one individual who was registered 10 different times,” said former U.S. Sen. Jack Danforth, chairman of a fair elections committee for Republican presidential nominee John McCain. “That was a clear case of fraud recognized by the Jackson County election officials.”

Find anyone who knowingly can call Danforth a partisan hack.

ACORN is under investigation in other states, including Nevada, where the group allegedly turned in forms with names of Dallas Cowboys.
In 2006, ACORN workers submitted fraudulent forms in Kansas City and later pleaded guilty to federal charges.

They've since changed the wording of that paragraph. It used to say the entire starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys.


Moving to next story...
http://www.myfoxstl.com/myfox/pages...n=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

The news came after eight ACORN workers were convicted of voter fraud in St. Louis earlier this year, for submitting bogus registrations in 2006 and authorities in Las Vegas raided an ACORN office there Tuesday; the names of the starting line up of the Dallas Cowboys football team among those submitted as newly registered voters.

An election official in Jackson County, Missouri, reported close to 400 suspicious registration forms gathered by the Democratic-leaning ACORN in Independence, so far; most of them either duplicate submissions or registrations for people living at addresses which do not exist.



"Including one name that was registered 10 different times, using different social security numbers and different addresses," Danforth said.



A St. Louis Board of Elections official said ACORN turned in about 5,000 forms with similar problems in 2006; which led to the eight convictions.


"It's an outrage," Danforth said. "It goes break the system down. There's a big difference between registration drives -- that's great - and turning in bogus names… register people, but register real people. Don't register, as was the case in our state in the last presidential election where a dog was registered."

Dems stole Missouri in 2000 successfully and it looks like they're trying again this year.

 

[McManus]

No offence, but to have this kind of stuff even possible kinda takes a whiz on the US being the worlds greatest democracy.

(I'll post this in both threads to be fair..)

 

[EnlightenmentHK]

Looks like the third stage of Conservative argumentation. "Well, the other side is just as bad!!" This is progress of course because to get to this point, our conservative must have already accepted and admitted that what their party has done/is doing is wrong. They won't express outrage about it. They won't start threads on it. But if you corner them and demand an answer, they'll admit it.

Of course this step requires them to be a limp-wristed, mealy mouthed relativist incapable of making better or worse judgment and declares it all one huge muddled shade of gray where everyone is wrong in their own way and neither one is worse than the other. Something they ostensibly claim to despise, yet warmly embrace when its to their political advantage. This rationalization is on display in all its pathetic glory whenever they discuss Fox News and the media.

But not to worry, if this BS fails the Conservatives still have several more logical fallacies to hide behind.

 

[bhsup]

What's really funny, EHK, is that I'll be voting for a Democrat for my State Rep (Carol Keough), US Rep (Ike Skelton), and MO Governor (Jay Nixon) at the very least. That doesn't diminish the fact that dirty things are going on in MO to the benefit of the Democratic Party.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Why would you give such a stupid thread the dignity of being made fun of in such spectacular fashion?

 

[Arwon]

Didn't JerichoHill debunk this already?

 

[bhsup]

Sorry Cheezy, but I take it personally when they try to subvert elections in my State.
@Arwon: If he has, please have him get in touch with the FBI. They didn't get the word.

 

[Arwon]

I mean the scale of what happened.

 

[EnlightenmentHK]

What's really funny, EHK, is that I'll be voting for a Democrat for my State Rep (Carol Keough), US Rep (Ike Skelton), and MO Governor (Jay Nixon) at the very least. That doesn't diminish the fact that dirty things are going on in MO to the benefit of the Democratic Party.

In one act of Voter Suppression in Florida republicans wiped 50,000+ eligible voters from the rolls by 'mistakenly' labeling them convicts. Over half of those just happened to be minority voters. (In case you're wondering, minority voters accounted for closer to 10% of the registered voters down there, so a tad bit disproportionate in that 'accidental' mixup) All of your examples of mass voter fraud don't appear to account for half of that single act.

And when you consider that voter suppression targeted at poor, minorities, and any other 'suspect' (aka, unlikely to vote Republican) groups or neighbhorhoods has been the unofficial policy of the Republican Party (Hell, one Michigan Republican a month ago flat out said it, 'We need to suppress the vote in Detroit') for going on 40 years now, its pretty clear that the very real threat of rampant voter suppression utterly dwarfs the comparatively insignificant examples of voter fraud when it comes to national elections.

Republicans don't care about voter fraud. Whether real or not, this is nothing more than a pretext for them to continue their policy of rampant disenfranchisement. If they can find a few hundred invalid registrations, have no doubt that they'll come up with a policy excluding several thousand legit voters to 'fix' the situation. And this is above and beyond the little dirty tricks they conduct each election cycle to lower turnout in 'undesirable' areas.

This is about Republicans stealing elections and subverting democracy. Acorn is just their latest cause celeb/rationalization for their own anti-democratic and anti-American behavior.

 

[Arwon]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7325574&postcount=69 Here it is. I'd like to hear more about this, if JH is reading the thread.

 

[EnlightenmentHK]

Sorry Cheezy, but I take it personally when they try to subvert elections in my State.

Really? You must be quite outraged at this than.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/10/o...3dfa6bd4079fe7&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Even before Missouri passed its new law, it had tougher ID requirements than many states. Voters were required, with limited exceptions, to bring ID with them to the polls, but university ID cards, bank statements mailed to a voter’s address, and similar documents were acceptable. The new law requires a government-issued photo ID, which as many as 200,000 Missourians do not have.

Missourians who have driver’s licenses will have little trouble voting, but many who do not will have to go to considerable trouble to get special ID’s. The supporting documents needed to get these, like birth certificates, often have fees attached, so some Missourians will have to pay to keep voting. It is likely that many people will not jump all of the bureaucratic hurdles to get the special ID, and will become ineligible to vote.

Not coincidentally, groups that are more likely to vote against the Republicans who passed the ID law will be most disadvantaged. Advocates for blacks, the elderly and the disabled say that those groups are less likely than the average Missourian to have driver’s licenses, and most likely to lose their right to vote. In close elections, like the bitterly contested U.S. Senate race now under way in the state, this disenfranchisement could easily make the difference in who wins.

So...a few hundred potential examples of voter fraud...no matter, we'll fix that by making it impossible for 200,000 other people to vote. Unless they wait a few hours at the local DMV, present their paperwork, and pay a Poll Tax to get an ID. Yep, I see VERY poor people jumping through those hoops to get an ID that serves no purpose but to vote.

 

[knowltok2]

Then there's all the illegally destroyed ballots from 2004 here in Ohio. Local Republican Elections boards: 'Oops'

 

[Mark1031]

What whining. Just lose with some dignity. Anyway debunked. In fact, how many cases of actual voter fraud have been prosecuted. That is people who actually vote fraudlently on election day. (We know plenty of cases where people are inappropriately purged/blocked on election day, it is why we have had Bush for 8 yrs) Anyway, there are voter registration desks run by Rep and Dem outside my supermarket. I could register going in and coming out. I could do this multiple times. Of course there is going to be mistakes, jokes, fraud on registration forms, when ACORN finds them they report them. The voting laws in this country are just backward. I think we need to go with the purple finger.

 

[LucyDuke]

Sorry Cheezy, but I take it personally when they try to subvert elections in my State.

Are you okay with attempted subversion of elections elsewhere in your country?

 

[Oerdin]

No offence, but to have this kind of stuff even possible kinda takes a whiz on the US being the worlds greatest democracy.

(I'll post this in both threads to be fair..)

Meh, 99% of this stuff gets caught very easily because the name doesn't match the social security number so the computer tosses it out. The Republicans have been claiming voter fraud for years but tens of millions of dollars in politically motivated investigations later even they had to admit voter fraud almost never occurs. Almost none of these false registrations ever results in someone illegally voting.

The primary reason why these things occur is because organizations hire people to gather signatures and register voters. These paid signature gathers are paid extremely low wages (often their homeless people) and are paid per signature or registration they bring in. Thus some of them will sit there and make up fake stuff in order to get a few more bucks. Like I said, virtually all of them get caught and the registrations get tossed out and no one has ever proven that these result in Joe Blow turning up to vote.

It's a complete non-issue for anyone who's actually informed about how the process works.

 

[woody60707]

I hope this is a joke thread.

 

[Elrohir]

I hope this is a joke thread.

You don't think these guys are real? Do a little research. Obama has paid these guys serious money, and they've been investigated for thousands of phoney ballots in many states. (Including Ohio and Michigan, in addition to Missouri)

If you don't find this even a little bit worrisome, then I really don't know what to say.

 

[Oerdin]

Looks like the third stage of Conservative argumentation. "Well, the other side is just as bad!!" This is progress of course because to get to this point, our conservative must have already accepted and admitted that what their party has done/is doing is wrong. They won't express outrage about it. They won't start threads on it. But if you corner them and demand an answer, they'll admit it.

Of course this step requires them to be a limp-wristed, mealy mouthed relativist incapable of making better or worse judgment and declares it all one huge muddled shade of gray where everyone is wrong in their own way and neither one is worse than the other. Something they ostensibly claim to despise, yet warmly embrace when its to their political advantage. This rationalization is on display in all its pathetic glory whenever they discuss Fox News and the media.

But not to worry, if this BS fails the Conservatives still have several more logical fallacies to hide behind.

Absolutely correct. From 2002-2005 Republicans made supposed voter fraud their central issue, Karl Rove made it a central issue in the 2004 Presidential campaign, and Bush turned massive resources from the Justice Department in an attempt to find some but they turned up a big zero. That's right tens of thousands of man hours over four years and they couldn't find a single case of voter fraud. To compare voter surpression is extremely real and provable as there have been multiple convictions. Republicans love to try to suppress minority voters, and even have systematic campaigns to do so, because they know minorities almost never vote Republican because most of them recognize the racism inherent in many Republican positions.

Republicans have a variety of tactics they use to attempt to suppress minority voters:

- They purge voter rolls. One guy named John Smith gets convicted of a felony and so loses his right to vote so the Republicans go to Democratic leaning areas and purge everyone with the name John Smith but do not do this in Republican leaning areas. That none of the social security numbers match doesn't matter to them because their goal is to prevent people from voting.

- Republicans love to make it difficult for the other guy to vote and easy for their supporters to vote. That's why one of their favorite tactics is to make sure there are almost no voting machines in Democratic districts so that people wait for hours and hours if they want to vote but in Republican areas there400% or 500% more machines so there are no lines. Once again this isn't an accident and is intentional voter suppression.

- One of the dirtiest tricks Republicans routinely use is to send out bogus fliers trying to trick people into not voting. They'll say the election day has changed and not to show up until the day after the election or they'll send official looking (but bogus) letters to everyone with a hispanic sounding last name telling them the police will arrest them if they show up to vote, etc...

Republicans are some lying, cheating, thieving scumbags and when they get called on it they pull out bogus claims/garbage like the OP in an attempt to claim the other guy does it too.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

Absolutely correct. From 2002-2005 Republicans made supposed voter fraud their central issue, Karl Rove made it a central issue in the 2004 Presidential campaign, and Bush turned massive resources from the Justice Department in an attempt to find some but they turned up a big zero.

Don't forget: some U.S. Attorneys have alleged that they were fired because they wouldn't bring "voter fraud" indictments that they did not believe were supported by evidence. (And the Bush administration officials allegedly responsible refuse to answer questions under oath.)

Cleo

 

[Elrohir]

Absolutely correct. From 2002-2005 Republicans made supposed voter fraud their central issue, Karl Rove made it a central issue in the 2004 Presidential campaign, and Bush turned massive resources from the Justice Department in an attempt to find some but they turned up a big zero. That's right tens of thousands of man hours over four years and they couldn't find a single case of voter fraud. To compare voter surpression is extremely real and provable as there have been multiple convictions. Republicans love to try to suppress minority voters, and even have systematic campaigns to do so, because they know minorities almost never vote Republican because most of them recognize the racism inherent in many Republican positions.

Republicans have a variety of tactics they use to attempt to suppress minority voters:

- They purge voter rolls. One guy named John Smith gets convicted of a felony and so loses his right to vote so the Republicans go to Democratic leaning areas and purge everyone with the name John Smith but do not do this in Republican leaning areas. That none of the social security numbers match doesn't matter to them because their goal is to prevent people from voting.

- Republicans love to make it difficult for the other guy to vote and easy for their supporters to vote. That's why one of their favorite tactics is to make sure there are almost no voting machines in Democratic districts so that people wait for hours and hours if they want to vote but in Republican areas there400% or 500% more machines so there are no lines. Once again this isn't an accident and is intentional voter suppression.

- One of the dirtiest tricks Republicans routinely use is to send out bogus fliers trying to trick people into not voting. They'll say the election day has changed and not to show up until the day after the election or they'll send official looking (but bogus) letters to everyone with a hispanic sounding last name telling them the police will arrest them if they show up to vote, etc...

Republicans are some lying, cheating, thieving scumbags and when they get called on it they pull out bogus claims/garbage like the OP in an attempt to claim the other guy does it too.

I'm loving the frothing-at-the-mouth partisanship coupled with the complete lack of evidence. It's really rather charming.