HBO Game of Thrones Inspired by the Moors.

mghani

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I must admit that i am a really big fan of HBO's Game of Thrones series. The author of the fantasy series (which i have never read as i am not a big fan of literary fantasy) upon which the HBO series is based admits that the plot line is based some what on the history of Medieval England (Tudor England I think). And a number of blogs and articles related to the series keep highlighting this similarity. The most obvious similarity is the fantasy world created by Tolkein in his Ring fantasies. In any event the series gives the impression of an imagination which sprouts from a very European source.

However a more than cursory glance at the geoplolitics of this fantasy drama reveals how much this seemingly European World is based on a history not quite pristinely European. The constant reference to the Narrow seas which separate the Nomadic, Barbaric and horse riding warriors known as the Dothraki, reminds one of the Narrow sea separating 'barbaric Africa' from Spain; and similarly the Dothraki although admitted by the authour as inspired by the nomadic culture of the Mongols and certain Native American Tribes are nonetheless reminiscent of ofcouse the 'Barbaric' moors---The Almorhavid and Almohades, among others who preceded them.

Even the hapless fate of the Targaryen family is reminescent of the Umayyads (the first Caliphate) massacred by the Abassids. Here is Stanley Poole describing the survival of Abd al Rahman, the half Berber prince in The Story of The Moors in Spain:

....they were hunted down in all parts of the world and slain without mercy. Abd-er- Rahman fled like the rest, but with better fortune, for he reached the banks of the Euphrates in safety. One day, as he sat in his tent watching his little boy playing outside, the child ran to him in affright, and, going out to discover the cause, Abd-er- Rahman saw the village in confusion, and the black standards of the Abbasides on the horizon. Hastily seizing up his child, the young prince rushed out of the village, and reached the river. Here the enemy almost came up with them, and called out that they need have no fear, for no injury would be done to them. A young brother, who had accompanied him, and who was exhausted with swimming, turned back, and his head was immediately severed from his body; but Abd-er-Rahman held on till he reached the other side, bearing his child, and followed by his servant Bedr. Once more on firm earth, they journeyed night and day till they came to Africa, where the rest of his family joined them, and the sole survivor of the Omeyyad princes had leisure to think of his future. ¡* He was but twenty years of age, and full of hope and ambition. His mental powers were considerable, and to these he added the advantages of a noble stature and great physical energy and courage

Although the noble qualities listed by the end of extract belong to the Lady Targaryen as oppossd to her brother, the similarities are apparent. Abd al Rahman goes on to cross the narrow seas and conquer Spain, using his his royal blood as legitimacy; the Tagaryens whose entire royal line has been massacred save the two, plan on doing the same.

And ofcourse there is the Ecoculture of these seven Kingdoms--The most convincincing evidence. The North is portrayed as backward, unelightended , poverty stricken and winter-bound, whereas the south is the land of warmth and sun, and culture and wealth. This again is a reflection of the contrast between Andalusia Spain, conqured and civilized by the ironically 'Barbaric Moors' and the rest of medieval Europe. Here is Stanley poole again:

Art, literature, and science prospered,
as they then prospered nowhere else in Europe.
Students flocked from France and Germany and
England to drink from the fountain of learning which
flowed only in the cities of the Moors. The surgeons
and doctors of Andalusia were in the van of science :
women were encouraged to devote themselves to
serious study, and the lady doctor was not unknown
among the people of Cordova. Mathematics,
astronomy and botany, history, philosophy and juris-
prudence were to be mastered in Spain, and Spain
alone. The practical work of the field, the scientific
methods of irrigation, the arts of fortification and
shipbuilding, the highest and most elaborate products
of the loom, the graver and the hammer, the potter's
wheel and the mason's trowel, were brought to per-
fection by the Spanish Moors.


But one tires of tring to find African culture and history in the subtext or subconscious of very outwardly European shows. In this series for instance there is hardly any black person in the darn show. The few blacks are all in the background and surprise surprise are the barbarian women of the Dothraki, who eat the heart of horses raw, whose language has no word for thank you. When are we going to see a historic TV drama based on an African history and culture unashamed to show its 'black' face. A show like Shaka starring the inimitable Henry Cele!
 
Not That there are no altrnatives to the inspiration for the game of thrones. The narrow seas for instance easily resembles the English Channel separating the Norman French from the British before the year 1066. however when we take into account other factors, Moorish history better stands the test. The Dothraki are Nomadic horsemen just like the moors, unlike the Normans who were if anything more cultured than the British counterparts.
 
Did you come up with this idea yourself or is it from a link?

Personally I think it's likely coincidental. You can find comparisons in all kinds of things. I actually think the character Raistlin from Dragonlance has a lot in common with Michael Jackson but I'm sure there's no connection there, especially since I think those books were written in the 80s before MJ "changed".

Would you say that the Moors were a "black culture"? I mean they came from North Africa and I know they had some black slaves but weren't they mostly Arab?
 
Did you come up with this idea yourself or is it from a link?

Personally I think it's likely coincidental. You can find comparisons in all kinds of things. I actually think the character Raistlin from Dragonlance has a lot in common with Michael Jackson but I'm sure there's no connection there, especially since I think those books were written in the 80s before MJ "changed".

Would you say that the Moors were a "black culture"? I mean they came from North Africa and I know they had some black slaves but weren't they mostly Arab?


I came up with the idea all by myself, as incredible as that maybe to you. However the impact of Moorish Spain on the history of Western Europe is just way too profound to not see the influence on the Geopolitics of this drama, albeit fantasy.
 
I actually think the character Raistlin from Dragonlance has a lot in common with Michael Jackson but I'm sure there's no connection there, especially since I think those books were written in the 80s before MJ "changed".

Interesting idea, might have to read them again to see how good Raistlin's moonwalk is ;)
 
Martin himself admitted that the Principality of Dorne was mostly based on the Moors, their mixed society of native Westerosi (i.e. Iberians/Visigoths) and foreign Rhoynar (i.e. Moors), as well as their climate and architectural style confirms that. I think you take the whole thing too far, though. Dorne also has aspects of Wales (see the Reach's "marcher lords" guarding the border to Dorne), and in my opinion, Queen Nymeria fits the Abd-ar-Rahman archetype much better than Aegon, both expelled from their homelands by their enemies.

Aegon has obviously much more in common with William the Conqueror (heck, they share the same epithet): they actively decided to invade a much larger country backed by superior military (replace Norman cavalry with dragons).

Westeros is basically England. The War of the Five Kings is based on the War of the Roses (Houses Lancaster vs. York, does it ring a bell?), the scenario native First Men -> Andal migration -> conquest by the Targaryens, a foreign power that only replaces the high nobility, but leaves a large impact on culture and society completely mirrors the British sequence of Celts/Anglosaxons/Normans.

Of course, with the richness of history, you can construct parallels to many other scenarios, but England is still the most likely one and in large parts confirmed by the author.
 
Westeros is basically England. The War of the Five Kings is based on the War of the Roses (Houses Lancaster vs. York, does it ring a bell?), the scenario native First Men -> Andal migration -> conquest by the Targaryens, a foreign power that only replaces the high nobility, but leaves a large impact on culture and society completely mirrors the British sequence of Celts/Anglosaxons/Normans.

I think it would be safe to say the political intrigue of the Drama is based on English History--the War of the Roses, as you point out. The same can also be said of the finer details of the culture the work of fiction elaborates on, especially of the two main houses--Starks and Lannisters. However these things are not mutually exclusive. Remember its fantasy and there is no need for the historic paralles to match perfectly with those in the work of fiction. It still remains that the Geopolitics of the drama mirrors more truly the history of Moorish Spain. Nomadic warriors, led by a man of noble birth and royal lineage --Abd ah Rahman conquering and uniting a land of riches and wealth caught up in turmoil. Poverty striken and tiny Britian, conqured by the Normans in 1066 separated from the mainland hardly qualifies as the centre of civilzation in the same way that Andalusia Spain did.
 
Interesting idea, might have to read them again to see how good Raistlin's moonwalk is ;)

I'll start a thread on this soon, I don't know how many people have read Dragonlance but since this is a gaming forum I figure the nerd factor will place it up there.
 
Another interesting parallel: in the Dothraki homeland there is reference to the Dothraki Sea, making reference to vast plains of Grass. A seemingly unique metaphoric reference to a distinct landscape--A sea of Grass. This ostensibly is a parallel to the the ecoculture of the Mongolian homeland, also defined by vast rolling grass plains (as the author says the Mongols are part inspiration for the Dothraki). However one wonders if this sea metaphor has not been inspired by an African landscape associated with the Sanhaja Berbers and Tamasheq, also known as Tuareg (likely candidates, among others for the historic Moors). The Arabs used the word Sahel to describe the deserts of Western Sudan. In arabic Sahel means Sea, as in sea of sand.
 
Sahel actually means coast in Arabic, sea is bahr.

Wow! a rare occassion where you actually provide a bit of useful information. Nonetheless you are correct. will make necessary adjustments to the post but will not abandon the idea of metaphoric similarity between Dotraki sea and the deserts of Western Sudan. I got th idea from a book which i have not read in a very long time--got things a little mixed up. Am gonna visit the library today for said book!
 
I think it would be safe to say the political intrigue of the Drama is based on English History--the War of the Roses, as you point out. The same can also be said of the finer details of the culture the work of fiction elaborates on, especially of the two main houses--Starks and Lannisters. However these things are not mutually exclusive. Remember its fantasy and there is no need for the historic paralles to match perfectly with those in the work of fiction. It still remains that the Geopolitics of the drama mirrors more truly the history of Moorish Spain. Nomadic warriors, led by a man of noble birth and royal lineage --Abd ah Rahman conquering and uniting a land of riches and wealth caught up in turmoil. Poverty striken and tiny Britian, conqured by the Normans in 1066 separated from the mainland hardly qualifies as the centre of civilzation in the same way that Andalusia Spain did.
Of course you can draw parallels to many things. To me it just seems you're trying to shoehorn something in - GRRM has given no hint of this being the case, and his explicit statement "I based Dorne on the Moors" implies that he didn't base the rest of his setting around them.

On your second point: Westeros is hardly the center of culture in the ASOIAF world either (only see how the Free Cities or the Qarthenes look at them), so that argument falls short. Westeros is rather similar to Anglosaxon England instead - I doubt the Seven Kingdoms were an accidental hint at the Heptarchy, for example.

And I repeat, if you want to compare Abd ar-Rahman to anyone in the setting, it's Queen Nymeria.
 
Another interesting parallel: in the Dothraki homeland there is reference to the Dothraki Sea, making reference to vast plains of Grass. A seemingly unique metaphoric reference to a distinct landscape--A sea of Grass. This ostensibly is a parallel to the the ecoculture of the Mongolian homeland, also defined by vast rolling grass plains (as the author says the Mongols are part inspiration for the Dothraki). However one wonders if this sea metaphor has not been inspired by an African landscape associated with the Sanhaja Berbers and Tamasheq, also known as Tuareg (likely candidates, among others for the historic Moors). The Arabs used the word Sahel to describe the deserts of Western Sudan. In arabic Sahel means Sea, as in sea of sand.

Correction---- Sahel as pointed out by the ever so vigilant Novakart means coast not sea. I got mixed up by this extract from an essay describing the Trans-Saharan salt and gold trade written by Nehemia Levtzon, which i read a long time ago.

Sahil is the arabic word for shore, which is well understood if the desert is compared to a sea of sand, and the camel to a ship. Hence the towns which developed in the Sahil--Takrur, Ghana and Gao maybe regarded as ports.

History of Africa, J. F Ade Ajaye, Micchael Crowder, pg 139


MapWAEmpires.gif



Map showing the Trans-Saharan trade. The Sahara would be the sea of sand, with the towns all located in the Sahel being the coast. And the Sahel is not really desert but rather consists of semi-arid grasslands, savannas, steppes, and thorn shrublands lying between the Central African wooded savanna to the south, and the Sahara to the north.
 
The Almorhavid movement, which went ahead to cross the narrow seas to conquer Spain around 1080 would have its earliest beginnings in the region close to the Senegal river among the Sanhaja settled there.

67clusesdetagountaytyahya.jpg


A phalanx of Sanhaja in the Southern Sahara. Possible inspiration for this:

dothraki2_480_poster.jpg
 
As i mentioned earlier the Narrow Sea which separate the Dothraki from Westeros could be nothing less than the truly narrow body of water known as the Straits of Gibraltar:

wmed_xl3.jpg
 
The Almorhavid movement, which went ahead to cross the narrow seas to conquer Spain around 1080 would have its earliest beginnings in the region close to the Senegal river among the Sanhaja settled there.

67clusesdetagountaytyahya.jpg


A phalanx of Sanhaja in the Southern Sahara. Possible inspiration for this:

dothraki2_480_poster.jpg
Or, you know, maybe the frickin' Mongols? It gets really ridiculous here because the Dothraki are an obvious and almost complete copy of the Mongols or at least their Western stereotypes. What do the Almoravids really have in common with them except for the fact that they fit into your Al-Andalus scenario? :rolleyes:

As i mentioned earlier the Narrow Sea which separate the Dothraki from Westeros could be nothing less than the truly narrow body of water known as the Straits of Gibraltar:

wmed_xl3.jpg
Again, the Narrow Sea has nothing in common with Gibraltar except that it fits into your claims. The Narrow Sea isn't that narrow at all. Even at the Stepstones it appears to be considerably larger, and judging from the map, the whole body of water has the dimensions of the Mediterranean Sea at least.
 
Honestly, I think you're too hung up on the narrow sea bit and the exiled kings.
It could just as well be a parallel to the English Chanel, the Mediterranian, the Black Sea or any not too large body of water between two cultures. I think both the Mediterranen and the Black Sea make more sense. King's Landing matches Constantinople in some aspects. The Free Cities beyond the narrow sea are more remiscent of renaissance Italy: they don't have kings and their political systems are dominated by rich merchants and it's mentioned in book five that many see the Westerosi as backward savages. They were also part of Valyria (Rome with Dragons, original homland of the Targaryans) and many cities on the eastern continent speak some dialect of Valyrian.
The Dothraki in the books are describes as almond eyed and are obviously an amalgamation of steppe nomads like Hunns and Mongols, it's the HBO guys made them look and sound moe arabic.
Farther east the slaver cities are remnants of ancient empires and embody the nastiest aspects of ancient Roman culture and another continent that's only mentioned seems to be a stand-in for Africa during the "grave of the white man" phase. Most non-natives who set foot on it bring something nasty with them if they ever come home.

The show's producers may be helping your case with some aesthetic changes like the aforementioned de-asianization of the Dothraki and casting a black actor as a merchant of Quarth in the second season, but the books don't support your hypothesis.
 
Or, you know, maybe the frickin' Mongols? It gets really ridiculous here because the Dothraki are an obvious and almost complete copy of the Mongols or at least their Western stereotypes. What do the Almoravids really have in common with them except for the fact that they fit into your Al-Andalus scenario? :rolleyes:

Sweet Christ! Did i not mention that the authour admits that the Mongols are the main inspiration for the Dothraki? Here:

Another interesting parallel: in the Dothraki homeland there is reference to the Dothraki Sea, making reference to vast plains of Grass. A seemingly unique metaphoric reference to a distinct landscape--A sea of Grass. This ostensibly is a parallel to the the ecoculture of the Mongolian homeland, also defined by vast rolling grass plains (as the author says the Mongols are part inspiration for the Dothraki).

These things are not mutually exclusive. And the similarities include the nomadic warrior way of life, fuelled by their reliance on horses (in the case of the Sanhaja it would also mean camels and cattle).

Again, the Narrow Sea has nothing in common with Gibraltar except that it fits into your claims. The Narrow Sea isn't that narrow at all. Even at the Stepstones it appears to be considerably larger, and judging from the map, the whole body of water has the dimensions of the Mediterranean Sea at least.

And the last time i checked the Sea of Gibraltar was part of the Mediterranean. Look at the map again.
 
So could Meeren = Al-Andalus?
 
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