Hello everyone. I'm new here, and to this game.....

[hou jing]

and I was hoping I could ask for some advice. I have only been playing this Civilization (IV) game for a few weeks now. I never tried any of the older versions. I'm already addicted.

I started a new game on Noble level (Catherine), and immediately found myself in what I thought was a strange situation right off the bat:

Looking at the resources available, I considered the best place to build Moscow would be one tile north of where the scouts are currently located. I've included a screenshot with the resources identified:

I move the scout two tiles to the north, which reveals a village to the NW. Also, I see that I am recommended to either build Moscow where the settlers are now, or move them to the tile that I actually prefer:

I decide to move the settlers to the desired tile to the north, which will take two turns. Once the settler moves one turn towards the selected tile, marble is revealed, and would be within Moscow's BFC. This made me feel better about my decision:

Now, this part I just don't understand. Once the settlers arrive to the selected tile, the blue circle no longer shows up there, but one tile to the south instead:

Is this due to the marble being revealed, thus making the newly-recommended tile a better city location?

Also, here are some other questions (as a beginner) I would like to ask:

1. Did I make the wrong decision to not found the city in its original location? I essentially gave all other Civs two free turns.

2. Catherine begins the game with mining and hunting researched. What would you research first?

3. At what point in your research would you begin to research bronze working? I've had a few games on Noble where I've lost cities to barbarians when I delayed building axemen early enough (I almost never research archery, ergo no archers), so I lean towards being able to defend myself ASAP when I start a new game.

4. What would you work on first? A worker? A warrior to fortify in the city? A scout to fog-bust?

5. Given the cities' location, which way would you move the scout? I'm wondering if there is a more effective fog-busting strategy that can save turns.

If anyone is interested, I would be happy to attach the file and discuss where the best location for the next city would be, what the targeted time frame would be to found it. (I just need to learn how to attached the file, which I wouldn't think would be too difficult.)

I hope this post isn't too verbose; I've just gotten very addicted to this game, and folks here seem both accommodating and knowledgeable. Any advice/criticism you care to offer would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[futurehermit]

Is this due to the marble being revealed, thus making the newly-recommended tile a better city location?

Also, here are some other questions (as a beginner) I would like to ask:

1. Did I make the wrong decision to not found the city in its original location? I essentially gave all other Civs two free turns.

2. Catherine begins the game with mining and hunting researched. What would you research first?

3. At what point in your research would you begin to research bronze working? I've had a few games on Noble where I've lost cities to barbarians when I delayed building axemen early enough (I almost never research archery, ergo no archers), so I lean towards being able to defend myself ASAP when I start a new game.

4. What would you work on first? A worker? A warrior to fortify in the city? A scout to fog-bust?

5. Given the cities' location, which way would you move the scout? I'm wondering if there is a more effective fog-busting strategy that can save turns.

I would say it's due to more tiles being revealed generally. The computer probably figured if you settled 1 south of where it previously suggested that you could build a nice city north of it with those floodplains.

I would say you made the right decision to move. The loss of 2 turns will be made up by having the gold in your capital fat cross thus accelerating your research.

I like to start out with bronze working and ag-animal husb to find out where copper and horses are. This also gets your slavery operation going.

When learning the game get bw right away and learn how all of its aspects work: chop rushing, pop rushing (slavery), and axe-rushing (w/copper).

Worker first to get your gold + food source online. You need that gold online asap to accelerate your research.

I would move the scout NE and then back around in a circle to the SW to reveal potential city sites around your capital. Try not to get him killed. On lower levels it's unlikely, but it's good practice for the higher levels to keep your scouts close-by your capital early on and move him through defensible terrain, preferably jungle/forest.

 

[ABigCivFan]

You are only losing 1 turn.

I think you made the right choice with capital location. It is coastal, has very good food source, gold for happy and accelerated early research, and Marble is a blessing.

2 worker openning would be best imo since there are lot to do here.

I would recommend:

Tech order: BW, AH, Fishing, Masonary, Wheel, Mystism, Priesthood (go for Oracle to MC), Agri, Potery, Writing, Alphabet

Build order: Worker, worker(chop 1 tree), worrior, Fish boat(grow to size 2), settler, worrior (grow to size 3), Worrior/chariot, settler...

Moscow can grow very fast with pig+fish+sheep, it can produce settlers very fast (Imperial+Marble+2 hills), and it will have very good research output(marble+gold+coast fish).

Solid start, good traits to land grab.

If you get MC from Oracle, build Colossus. You have 5 coast tiles, the amount of research in Moscow will be rediculous. Build Greatlight house in there if it all possible, shouldnt be too hard on Noble.

Later on, build GL and NE(both marble based), even later Oxford in Moscow and make it a GP farm and super science city. Make Civil service and Compass priorities. You should be able to kick some ass. Have fun.

Edit: I would end that scout's turn on the gold hill to reveal more of the map, in general, try end your scout's turn on hill or in Forrest/jungle to get the defensive bonus.

Always try use the best possible location(most resources/coastal/fresh water/# of forrests) for your capital since most of your wonders and Beauracracy bonus will all stack up in there.

 

[Maydrock]

I think I would have settled in place. That way you could get a early jump on a warrior for some defense and to help the scout do some exploring. Plus those trees would been enough to chop a couple workers and a settler. Looks like the tile 1N of the pigs is becoming a good second city location. Hopefully between the two, copper would show up.

I almost always settle in place though and usually head straight for BW. But, like you said, I don't think 2 turns lost is a biggie.

Keep the screen shots coming, so we can watch your progress.

Welcome to CFC and CIV IV!

Edit: Also, both cities would have gotten a +2 to health for being next to fresh water.

 

[Bradlius]

I agree with Maydrock. Just by reflex, I always settle in place. Probably the algorithm that selects the blue circle sites already "knew" about the marble, even though you couldn't see it till you moved your Settler north.
If you settled in place (sheep, marble, lots of forest for chopping, near a river) and quickly settled a second city on that forest tile north of the pigs, that'd be ideal to me. That second location has pigs, fish, two floodplains, forests and is also next to a river. Looks prime for either GP farm or a huge research city.
Isn't this fun? The first few moves set the stage for everything.

 

[mice]

No I agree with the first two posters. Move to the site with gold and 2 food from the same research , AH .

That gold on noble will propel your research ahead of the AI. Tech AH for the sheep and pigs and work all your specials first.

Build worker first to be able to do this. You wont look back.

You might get horses in your fat cross, then build a chariot of two.

 

[oyzar]

i find that settling in place is almost allways the correct decision unless there is a plainhill with marble or stone nearby(for some reason the startlocationgeneration almost never place you on these insane spots)...

 

[automator]

99% of the time I settle where I am. Maybe move one tile if I can settle same turn to end up on the coast or get one more plains hill in my fat X, or grab another resource.

 

[Maydrock]

Starting location guarantees you no tundra or snow in BFC. Settling a city to the south now will probably get some now unless the cities are overlapping.

 

[GoodGame]

Normally settling in place gets you a good assortment of resources, so this start is a little unusual if it was a standard random game.

I tend to ignore the blue circle advice, but I suspect the real reason for the change was that moving south gives you 4 forest tiles instead of 3, which is +2 health vs. +1 health (and moving towards the floodplains is -1 health I believe). Really the city sites are about the same, except that ones that start 1 tile from pigs and sheep will start growing faster, due to the tiles being in the immediate culture sphere.

I'd even consider moving 1 tile north to get one of the flood plains in the 2 tile fat cross; For that you also get 3 hill mines to the west, at the expense of losing most of the free trees and the marble. I'd see 3 mines (~12 hammers as a good trade for marble which is like 2-3 hammers), and the marble will fall under your culture influence fairly quickly being about 3 tiles away. Beeline for Mathematics and the aqueduct and The Hanging Gardens will be quick builds from the mines, along with your big pop from 4 food sources--fish/pigs/sheep/farmed flood plain. Given that you'll be irrigating plains otherwise, in this situation, I'd definitely do this. The health usually won't be an issue until you've solved unhappiness (have a religion+temple, monarchy, or theatre) in my opinion, and the extra food should trump the sickness.

I agree with Maydrock. Just by reflex, I always settle in place. Probably the algorithm that selects the blue circle sites already "knew" about the marble, even though you couldn't see it till you moved your Settler north.
If you settled in place (sheep, marble, lots of forest for chopping, near a river) and quickly settled a second city on that forest tile north of the pigs, that'd be ideal to me. That second location has pigs, fish, two floodplains, forests and is also next to a river. Looks prime for either GP farm or a huge research city.
Isn't this fun? The first few moves set the stage for everything.

 

[hou jing]

and all of your advice. I've posted screenshots through 2290 BC. I'm at a point where I must begin to determine where I need to send the settler in a few turns. I may be guilty of posting way too much 'play-by-play' with respect to the number of screenshots. I don't know what the protocol is regarding this.

I'll pick up where I left off yesterday......


Once Moscow was built in the selected location, I moved the scout north and east to the coast, then back towards the west to bust the fog around the city. Ivory showed up (good news for future military, right?):

Wine, gold and cow show up when the scouts move south and west:

When the workers are ready, I move them first to mine the gold:

Further south, the scouts encounter corn and a village:

While waiting on animal husbandry research to be completed, I sent the workers to chop the forest north of the city:

I included this screenshot to ask if the Woodsman I, II, III promotions were best for the scout. I really like the extra movement, if you can keep them alive this long:

After healing, the scout finds another village, who provides a warrior. I planned to send the warrior north through the fog, then straight east to fortify in Moscow:

The scout's last two moves reveal the southern coast of the continent, along with sheep and wheat:

Moving south and east along the southern coast, we find crab:

Work began on a warrior, while the workers build pastures:

The scouts find more sheep just to the north of the coast:

Here, the scouts find another village, which provides them with another warrior. Also, we find copper (whew):

Once I gained the second warrior unit from a village, I sent them to Moscow, and immediately switched from working on a warrior to working on a fishing boat (45 turns). A few turns later, I whipped the work boat:

More corn and crab are revealed south of Moscow:

Work began on a settler once another quick warrior was built (for the new city):

I'll show the explored land in another reply....

 

[hou jing]

and comments below:


These next slides show the land that's been explored, and the resources found:

I was hoping to get some thoughts on the best site for the next city. I was thinking I need to try to get the copper to the north. I took the research and build path recommended by ABigCivFan, mostly because it's similar to what I was thinking. The main thing I may have done differently is research the wheel prior to fishing. I managed to waste some turns with the workers (this was most likely my management).

Let me know of any thoughts, suggestions, criticisms, etc. Thanks!

 

[Bhruic]

The major criticism of your position is that you've been building almost exclusively Workers/Settlers, which has severly hampered your growth. Your capital is still size 1! You've improved at least 7 tiles from what I can see, but your city can only use one of them.

In the early game, it's pretty important to balance city growth and expansion. You're a little too skewed towards the "expansion" end, imo. With all that food, your city will grow pretty quickly, which would let you pump out Settlers faster. Try building a Warrior or two, or a building to let your city grow, then work on getting Settlers out.

Bh

 

[itsnotmeee]

Off Topic: Ok, I'm still a noob on this one, but could somebody please tell me how to attach images in normal size? And how do you enable the flying camera in-game for a better mapdotting? Thx!

 

[oyzar]

yeah you def shoudl keep the city size up with the number of improvements you intend to work... no reason having too many imporvements...

 

[Emp. Killyouall]

While whipping the work boat may have been a good idea (I would have chopped it) you should probably have grown to size 2 before starting the settler.

 

[oyzar]

no reason whatsoever to whip it at that low pop size with so many high food improvements anyways...

 

[ABigCivFan]

The whole point of getting 2 workers early is to build improvements fast enough to keep up with your fast growing city. When your city grows by 1 pop, that guy should always work the best available tile. In Moscow's case, Pig, then Fish(boat), then Sheep, then Marble/gold. Do not whip Moscow before building Granary. Chop the boat. Start barracks before settler, let your city grow to size 2, or even 3 since you will be able to work the Marble/Gold hill with 3 pops, which gives you a huge boost for building settlers (imperial trait).

with Fish and pig, you can grow to size 3 in just a few turns. Grow to size 4 before starting the 2nd settler.

Try start over and play the openning a few times, it is THE most import and most fun part of the game imo.

Follow the res path and go for Oracle after you have built the 3rd settler.

 

[Morgrad]

For your second city, going for the copper in the north is tempting, but I'd actually settle my second city to the south with corn/copper to hook up the strategic resource, just because I wouldn't be able to resist cow/corn/gold/wine to the north - what an awesome city, especially for the early game.

The only thing is, I can't see the map well enough to know if the southern copper city would have any production other than the copper - I think your capital certainly has enough via whippage to get an axeman army going strong, but I like I having a strong production city for my second if I'm able.

Of course, hooking up copper (or horses, depending) is something I'd do even if I had to settle on top of it with nothing but desert and peaks in the fat cross of city 2.

The other people make an excellent point about wasted time - there is no reason to have more (or at least not significantly more) improved tiles than you're able to work. I would build a worker, let the city grow while getting a nice food resource, then again to work food and the gold - then pump out a settler and another worker.

Especially because you're rather new to the game, it might not be a bad idea at all to take ABigCivFan's advice and start over and do things differently, then maybe even do it again! Play to 2290 from the same start twice more and see how much you can improve your position each time - it's a heck of a way to learn the early game. =)

 

[jason77024]

in addition to the pvs comments, I would also note you have one mine three spaces from the city (3W), so there's no way it can be used...