Hello Everyone. Why does Brazil always take Fascism?

[Infixo]

@Infixo : did you try dividing the modifier by 100 instead of just eliminating it? That component should still have an influence in the valuation, or else we are swinging the pendulum the other side of the imbalance/bug... and I am more confident today than yesterday that it is a stupid, missing /100

No, I have not. This isn't the problem, imho. Modifier definition is ok. If you change it to 1, you will get 1% bonus, so not really different than detaching the modifier.

       <Row>
           <ModifierId>TRAIT_FASCISM_BONUS_RATE</ModifierId>
           <Name>BonusRate</Name>
           <Value>100</Value>
       </Row>
       <Row>
           <ModifierId>TRAIT_FASCISM_BONUS_RATE</ModifierId>
           <Name>BonusType</Name>
           <Value>GOVERNMENTBONUS_UNIT_PRODUCTION</Value>
       </Row>

The problem is that it is a new effect type GOVERNMENTBONUS_UNIT_PRODUCTION. It is different that usually is used for unit production bonuses.

 

[Aristos]

Fascism is actually useful if you give it a chance. (whoops). The problem is that it's generally overkill against the AI and you're better off by using your massive economy to win the game already.

Another thing is that military cards are in general very underrated for some reason. It's been passed around a lot but I think it gets repeated for no good reason and then people get deceived into thinking diplomatic slots actually matter and take terrible governments like Classical Republic or Monarchy. Logistics and National Identify are very strong cards. When combined with double combat legacies and GGs, this is very broken. I honestly think they need to nerf the crap out of Oligarchic Legacy. But then again the AI probably puts random cards in, so maybe this point is moot.

But honestly, if you like Oligarchy, why wouldn't you like Fascism?

Liking it is not the problem, the problem is that ALL AIs ALWAYS chose Fascism, and Infixo uncovered the gigantic bug responsible for that.

Infixo, I am 100% (and my engine is not missing a /100 ) sure FXS will NOT fix this bug for GS, so we better come up with a good "temporary" countermeasure... so, if we make that BonusRate 1 instead of 100, we would possibly compensate for the missing /100 for valuation of the policy, BUT we would decrease the real bonus 100 times, correct?

 

[Infixo]

so, if we make that BonusRate 1 instead of 100, we would possibly compensate for the missing /100 for valuation of the policy, BUT we would decrease the real bonus 100 times, correct?

I would simply try to design a modifier that has the same effect but doesn't use GOVERNMENTBONUS_UNIT_PRODUCTION effect, just plain old ADJUST_UNIT_PRODUCTION or ADJUST_CITY_PRODUCTION_UNIT. Governments have normal Modifiers, so it should be easy to create a modifier for owner Player or Player Cities, and then use appropriare effect type.

 

[Aristos]

I would simply try to design a modifier that has the same effect but doesn't use GOVERNMENTBONUS_UNIT_PRODUCTION effect, just plain old ADJUST_UNIT_PRODUCTION or ADJUST_CITY_PRODUCTION_UNIT. Governments have normal Modifiers, so it should be easy to create a modifier for owner Player or Player Cities, and then use appropriare effect type.

That would be the elegant solution, but for that you would need access to the dll, which we don't have (and there is a chance we never will). I am talking an immediate work around, if possible a little less drastic than eliminating the modifier altogether, which affects valuation of government selection for the AI.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Even the HoI4 AI shines compared to this one...

I don't know, I see a lot of similarities. HOI 4 allows you to get 100:1 casualty ratios with nations like Ireland, the AI doesn't know how to use paratroopers at all, will repeatedly let itself get encircled in the same spot...lots of similar pure tactical fails to Civ 6 AI.

In Civ 6 as you near the end of the tech tree you can't get better units from tech. Strength boosts from promotions, government, and corps/armies are more decisive than previous eras, where they were already extremely important. If the AI doesn't go fascism it would be even more free to 1-2 shot everything, with contemporary or even dated units (latter with promotions).

 

[Aristos]

I don't know, I see a lot of similarities. HOI 4 allows you to get 100:1 casualty ratios with nations like Ireland, the AI doesn't know how to use paratroopers at all, will repeatedly let itself get encircled in the same spot...lots of similar pure tactical fails to Civ 6 AI.

In Civ 6 as you near the end of the tech tree you can't get better units from tech. Strength boosts from promotions, government, and corps/armies are more decisive than previous eras, where they were already extremely important. If the AI doesn't go fascism it would be even more free to 1-2 shot everything, with contemporary or even dated units (latter with promotions).

Did I misunderstand you, or are you saying that a bug with some positive side effects is good justification to compensate for worse bugs (a very bad tac AI)?

 

[pgm123]

Uh, what? Normally you've won or lost the game by the time anyone would get fascism.

Not if you're not playing to win.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Did I misunderstand you, or are you saying that a bug with some positive side effects is good justification to compensate for worse bugs (a very bad tac AI)?

You misunderstood me. I was merely thinking that fascism is actually a good pick for military boosts in Civ 6 also. Bug notwithstanding, the AI should probably be running it unless it's actually a serious contender for space or culture.

Since those are pseudo victory conditions AI should mostly default to fascism as a strategic choice. Not because it's a bug but because that choice is consistent with actual design incentives.

I'm not sure I'd call the bad tactical AI a "bug". Firaxis made that bed intentionally with how they invested and continue to invest their resources. It's certainly poor quality, but they seem content to leave it in its state for the most part.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Liking it is not the problem, the problem is that ALL AIs ALWAYS chose Fascism, and Infixo uncovered the gigantic bug responsible for that.

I know that. I'm just trying to point out that military governments and civics are better than what people give them credit for. And people immediately see it and think it is bad without thinking.

Yes, it should be fixed, but honestly this move is probably at worst neutral for the AI, unlike it staying in Monarchy forever. I can't say that about like, most of what it does.

If I designed the AI, I'd also have it favor a military focus, simply because the player with the most untrustworthy agenda is the human player.

 

[Cacimbinhas]

Hi. I am sorry, I dont know whether it is common around here, but I thought I should introduce myself. I am Brazilian, played from the fourth to sixth game, and thought I would come to this site because generally, I am tired of the constant political debates I have been getting trapped on in the internet, and thought I would talk a bit about this game.

So, I am a noob player, but one thing that always bugged me are all the people that have been going with Fascism as Brazil lately. It just makes no sense in my eyes. Brazil is base bonuses are clearly built for a culture victory, while Fascism as a form of government is built for a military victory. I just do not understand why would people want tto choose Fascism as Brazil, that is all.

Maybe the developers were trying to reflect the military dictatorship which ended in 1985? Would probably be reflective of true history of era and time? Or maybe they just foresaw Bolsonaro?

 

[Aristos]

Maybe the developers were trying to reflect the military dictatorship which ended in 1985? Would probably be reflective of true history of era and time? Or maybe they just foresaw Bolsonaro?

If that were the case, then Brazil should also adopt communism between the 80's and the 2010's, right?

Nope, the AI cannot even do the basic things, forget about "resembling history" in any way... it just has valuation functions that have been proven to be, once again as with many other things in civ 6, bonkers.

 

[steveg700]

Maybe the developers were trying to reflect the military dictatorship which ended in 1985? Would probably be reflective of true history of era and time? Or maybe they just foresaw Bolsonaro?

Don't give them that much credit.

How often does the AI take Merchant Republic? Also pretty much never, for any civ.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Don't give them that much credit.

How often does the AI take Merchant Republic? Also pretty much never, for any civ.

As a leaf tech, I can live with that.

It would be better, though, if all the Tier 2 govts, like the Tier 3 govts, were on leaf techs. Same for the Tier 4 govts as of GS. Unless they wanted to purposefully make a non-leaf tech govt that's noticeably weaker than the leaf tech ones.