Hermetic lore for FFH DI4 (not for use outside this game)

[Lade]

I suppose I'll have to spread Ashen Veil to them, then.

Really, be creative, people! Make things interesting! If you're Good, trying redeeming Evil!

I can start with you: Hey, Mammon, care to join the good side? All you have to do is stuff manipulating everyone you meet for personal gain!

 

[Lgaard]

Another important note....I gave him a plantation on his dye outside of Bloodstone. I was going to give him a healthy infusion of gold....say ~100 gc's, but forgot.

Someone else should consider doing it....he also could use a few other economical improvements perhaps, although we shouldn't make it too easy.

He's breaking even at 40% research right now, and that's probably a little too harsh.

Dont be too generous. After all it is Gerran (and not the gods) who manages the budgets. He receives Great Merchant from Mammon this round. Together with dye plantation and town (he had received from Stratus... Cumulus... Camulus). Plus Elder Council... Well I think it is even too much already. He (Gerran) should also do his job, and gods might give him opportunities and not off-the-shelf products.

 

[Bootsiuv]

Well, considering it was the gods who basically destroyed his economy in the first place, I thought it was only proper that we should get him back on track.....I completely agree that he controls the budget, but he's going to be loathe to disband a named unit, do to the fact that it's likely integrated into one of our stories.

Therefore, I'm of the opinion that we should help him out a little...

 

[Dean_the_Young]

I can start with you: Hey, Mammon, care to join the good side? All you have to do is stuff manipulating everyone you meet for personal gain!

This is usually the point at which you make an offer of how it benefits me...

Well, considering it was the gods who basically destroyed his economy in the first place, I thought it was only proper that we should get him back on track.....I completely agree that he controls the budget, but he's going to be loathe to disband a named unit, do to the fact that it's likely integrated into one of our stories.

Therefore, I'm of the opinion that we should help him out a little...

If he's creative, he can always say he's 'retiring' the unit in the capital until later times and let the gods remake it when his economy is better.

Sometimes you just have to learn to let some things go, or put them down for a time.

 

[Lade]

This is usually the point at which you make an offer of how it benefits me...

Um, the One won't smite you when he comes back?

And I'll give you a cookie.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Um, the One won't smite you when he comes back?

He ain't coming back.

And I'll give you a cookie.

If by cookie, you mean 'swear utter subservience of both myself and my host of fanatics,' then sure.

 

[Dayen]

Dont be too generous. After all it is Gerran (and not the gods) who manages the budgets. He receives Great Merchant from Mammon this round. Together with dye plantation and town (he had received from Stratus... Cumulus... Camulus). Plus Elder Council... Well I think it is even too much already. He (Gerran) should also do his job, and gods might give him opportunities and not off-the-shelf products.

Which is part of why I don't really have an intervention to do this round, at least until Verdian addresses the random event.

If it's not this time around, then I'll handle the fallout next time.

 

[apenpaap]

OOC:
While I was away, I made a little chart to help me keep in mind what the comman Grigori was thinking in the game. I thought I'd share the result. This chart shows how much each god is being worshiped. The number shows active worship (one being really low, 5 being practically a state religion), while the number in parenthesis shows unintended worship (if it is different, most of them are not). Note that this only takes event into account since the end of my last write up, as I hadn't read the boards after that when I made it. I'll probably make another one of these after the next chapter, too, so you can see how you are doing. Assume at turn 0, every god was at 3.

Lugus - 2 - Pursuing the truth is dangerous, and in general these are dark times.
Sirona - 3 - No real change.
Nantosuelta - 1 - The gods are forsaking us. Spirits are low.
Succellus - 3 - No real change.
Junil - 3 (4) - Fear keeps people in line, and risky behavior is punished. Crime is incredibly low.

Kilmorph - 4 - People are actively and sincerely following Her ways.
Oghma - 3 (4) - With the huge influx of different races and cultures, knowledge is spreading.
Cernunnos - 4 - The fawn and various events keep it strong. Plus, Cernunnos' gradual change is the only kind unpunished.
Arawn - 3 - No real change.
Dagda - 3 - No real change.
Tali - 3 (1) - The Minstrel keeps the faith going, and people still pray, but in their hearts they are deathly afraid to take risks.
Danalin - 3 - Ironically, people pray to the slumbering god for peaceful dreams.

Camulos - 3 - Would probably be lower, but people are praying to avoid war.
Aeron - 3 (4) - Normal worship patterns, but tempers are short due to lack of sleep and fear.
Ceridwen - 3 - No real change.
Mammon - 1 - People dislike the god that cursed them, and are avoiding activities associated with Him so as to avoid the dreams.
Esus - 3 - No real change.
Mulcarn - 3 (4) - Fear and punishing risks is leaving things the same.
Agares - 4 (5) - People pray desperately for hope. Despair lives in the people's hearts.
Bhall - 3 (1) - People still pray, but what passion is left in the Grigori?

Considering the amount of worship of Agares there is in Gerran's lands, maybe we should spread Ashen Veil in his lands. I'd be happy to do it, but I've already done my intervention for this round.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Ashen Veil isn't just Agares, you know.

Actually, if it spreads anywhere, I'd get a kick if it was the Bannor.

 

[Lgaard]

I have mixed feelings about the location of the Swamp of Dagorlad. (I think it was Thomas' intervention). It is in already revealed part of the desert adjuncted to The Mirror of Heaven. Because of the changes, The Mirror is not no longer in the middle of the desert (as it used to be), but at the edge of the swamps, which is less climatic (imo). Additionally the swamps and Oghma's citadel just appeared out of nowhere. Would be much better (imo, again) if it was moved more to the west (or south-west).

Thomas, do you think it's fine if I move it a bit SW towards what is now Luchuirp land?

 

[Bootsiuv]

I would agree....we could always merge the swamp of Dagorlad and the Marshes of Balok-Ur, and make the western edge of the desert but up to an enormous swamp....that would be fine with me too. If you decide to do that, you can do away with my name....I wasn't that fond of it to begin with. I suck at coming up with fantasy type names tbh, and I might just start snatching some from dragonlance, tolkien whatever.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

I have mixed feelings about the location of the Swamp of Dagorlad. (I think it was Thomas' intervention). It is in already revealed part of the desert adjuncted to The Mirror of Heaven. Because of the changes, The Mirror is not no longer in the middle of the desert (as it used to be), but at the edge of the swamps, which is less climatic (imo). Additionally the swamps and Oghma's citadel just appeared out of nowhere. Would be much better (imo, again) if it was moved more to the west (or south-west).

Thomas, do you think it's fine if I move it a bit SW towards what is now Luchuirp land?

Is that where the swamp with the necromancer ended up? Shame, i wanted to try to convince them to put it closer to the barbarian nation in the center. Oh well. C'est La Vie.

I think we either need to get gerran a bigger map or something if he doesn't manage to trade one next time. it's limiting the stuff we can talk about in the main thread and is making thing cluttered close by. If this keeps up gods will have to start combining quests to mesh them all together without tripping over each other.

 

[Bootsiuv]

That is NOT where the swamp with the necromancer (known as the marshes of Balok-Ur) ended up Ravus....I put mine far to the west, just north of the Sheaim, essentially betweem Templarum and Equality if I remember correctly.

The swamp Lgaard was referring to is the swamp of Dagorlad, currently located west of the Khazad, north of the Luchuirp, bordering the southeastern edge of the great desert IIRC.

Currently several hundred "game miles" seperate the two.

I was simply offering to combine the areas into one huge swamp, to make the lands around the Mirror of Heaven revert back to desert.

We could always just name the swamp two different things in two different places.

Thoughts?

 

[Lgaard]

I was simply offering to combine the areas into one huge swamp, to make the lands around the Mirror of Heaven revert back to desert.

We could always just name the swamp two different things in two different places.

Thoughts?

I find your idea a perfect solution. But I'm hesitant to force such important change without Thomas' permition. Unless there is a strong support from other gods. (it seems we will have no contact with Thomas for the next 2-3 weeks)

My arguments are:
- Swamp is in adjunct tile to The Mirror of Heaven, which looks... well... strange
- it appeared in the land already revealed by Verdian
- this quest seems to be really long time (antagonists are really strong)
- Luchuirp will put a city in the Swamp in several turns (tested) (This could also happen in any other location, Orc? Sheaim? but Bog Luchuirp sound really stupid to me)
- Thomas said in the other thread:

OOps... sorry. if you want, I can just delete it. or get rid of the swamps... Sorry.

I was not intending to be such despot, but I think if I have support from some of you, I will do it. (Sorry Thomas...)

BTW: I tested the game to the turn 150, no crashes. I will write short summary when I find time (soon).

 

[Dean_the_Young]

The Grigori have agreed to murder a Hippus, who they have no qualm with and who has done no evil, to destroy a Hippus-Bannor marriage, in exchange for Adventure, money, and an artifact weilded by one of the horsemen of the Apocalypse.

Naughty, naughty Gerranites.


I need one final, small, intervention for this round: Hold Comillo in the capital, and place the Crown of Command in the capital as well.

The after effects will come next round... and will depend on your inverventions, actions, and other such actions as you see fitting. As is, when he returns (part of next round intervention), I will give the Gerranites knowledge of poisons and promote Comillo to an Assassin, along with any appropriate relationship modifiers.



I hope, and suggest, that all you gods who have interest get in on this. Gods of Good + Kilimorph should be especially alarmed: the Crown of Command is a very evil artifact in its own right, and the Gerranite actions are unquestionably bad as well. Prince Solidor, as it happens, is a Good man: if he had been born Bannor, he'd be the Junil-worshipping General. As a Hippus, fate draws him towards closer relations with the Bannor.

Feel free to make actions, objections, or warnings in the main thread, or discuss ramifications you'd like in this thread, and if you really want to be subtle, PM me.

 

[Lgaard]

Some thoughts and observation while testing 50 turns:

- No crashes. I’m not sure what might have caused CTD just after Tya Kiri spellcasters were added. It might have been “Wonder” spell

- Swamp of Dagorlad – was discussed in the post above.

- All movable garrison from Ered leaves the city and heads westward. I will add some held units in Ered

- Archer in the Castle of Larok-Zet (sp?) is too strong. I propose to make him ‘diseased’.

- AI is placing 4 Kuriotate city in really ultra stupid place. We will have no choice but move the city in the next round. If Gerran manages to reveal the Kuriostan’s maps before we manage to do resettlement, we will need to describe narrative reasons.

- Exploration. With griffon and his strong scouts (Finnegan) he is able to explore vast part of the map and contact many AIs. With current diplomatic relations he is able to exchange maps just after discovering cartography with all other nations. Therefore, he will probably reveal most (if not whole) continent very soon. Some may say it’s OK, but my personal feeling it is not.
o He will lose exploration part of the game. I personally like exploration, so getting too much maps at once to me is a bit lame
o We will lose the opportunity of placing our world shaping without narratives.
o We will also lose our chances to describe these narratives which were describing obscure “unrevealed world”. I personally liked the description of Sheaim refugees escaping through the desert to Belseraph. It was a sort of a rumour, a legend. When the map is revealed there will be no room for such type of narratives.
o Even after (/if) we prevent exchanging maps he will still be able to do fast and effective exploration, using griffon and scouts

I strongly propose to try to prevent extensive map exchange. It might be done by:
o Spoiling relations (which is still unclear if it is effective if Gerran’s maps are covering really huge part of the map)
o Giving all AIs the map of the World (controversial)
Both ways are not perfect, but I prefer latter. Any thoughts?

- Elves are marginalized. Faeryl founded FoL at last.

- After settling a Great Merchant in a city, using given plantations, settling a third city near Town of Arawn (to reach towns), and building markets – Gerran becomes a real economical monster: +10 gold at 100% science with ease. We were too generous, weren’t we? Is it find if I delete at least one plantation and reduce towns to cottages?

As for other things I find Crown of Command too powerful to give it to Gerran right away. Dean, could you think of less powerful way? Jade Torc + promotion? And is “poisons” tech really needed? Maybe assassin is enough?
I really like this quest. Maybe in the next round you could make Comillo assassin, grant him temporary invisibility + HN and ask to kill someone in Bannor land? Just an idea.

 

[Bootsiuv]

Your changes are reasonable. You have my support for all of the above mentioned items.

EDIT: Oops dean snuck in there....that was @Lgaard.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, Crown of Command is supposed to be powerful. Infact, it was intended to be: it's part of a test. If he uses it willy-nilly, especially this early in the game, he'll crash his own economy. If you scalp some of the more extravagant economic bonuses, it'll do the rest. This will especially be true once Comillo is an assassin, because with recon-capture promotions and the over-powerdness in general, he'll kill so many people (if he wages war) that he'll be dumped in units. Good for his military, perhaps, but not so good for his economy. Especially, as I said, if we don't give him so much. (One way to do that might be to change tiles to less-favorable: grass-land resources changed to plains, for example, for less food and growth.)

At the moment, I want the Crown of Command to be overpowered. That's part of the point: it's a temptation device. If he uses it, he's being more evil and in my sphere than he already is at the moment, and he threatens to crash his own economy with inferior units.



For the continuing the quest... that sounds like a great idea for Esus or another god to give him. At the moment, I care less, and make no claims of exclusive rights to Comillo.

But no, I don't need to let him have Poisons, I suppose: the main point was so that we could world-builder in the tech, give enough gold, and promote Comillo. No reason we can't change that after, but... with the consent of the present, I'd like to give the Hippus poison, then (since the knowledge would be from 'them', per say).



For your map-issue, here's a suggestion: threaten him/quest him. Tali, why don't you give him a quest to explore the continent, and then someone else (Ohgma?) can warn against him trading maps (knowledge needs to be understood and gained, not handed over). If he trades maps, we hit him and 'hide' the map through world builder, and if he doesn't, a mild reward could be in order (another Great Bard?).

 

[Lgaard]

Well, Crown of Command is supposed to be powerful. Infact, it was intended to be: it's part of a test. If he uses it willy-nilly, especially this early in the game, he'll crash his own economy.
[...]
At the moment, I want the Crown of Command to be overpowered. That's part of the point: it's a temptation device. If he uses it, he's being more evil and in my sphere than he already is at the moment, and he threatens to crash his own economy with inferior units.

I dont buy your logic here. It will improve his economy, not crash it. If he finds the newly captured unit useful he will not need to build it, and could build economically important buildings/workers/settlers instead. If he finds the new unit redundant - he will disband it.
If you still really stick to your idea, I want you to think of a way how Mammon is going to turn the benefits of all these gifts into dust in the future. "Mammon gives, Mammon takes away" - remember?

For your map-issue, here's a suggestion: threaten him/quest him. Tali, why don't you give him a quest to explore the continent, and then someone else (Ohgma?) can warn against him trading maps (knowledge needs to be understood and gained, not handed over). If he trades maps, we hit him and 'hide' the map through world builder, and if he doesn't, a mild reward could be in order (another Great Bard?).

I like the idea, but both messages must be very clear. Thorough exploration not a shortcut. If Tali and a volunteer (well, Thomas/Oghma is not here for some time) are not able to make a short narrative addressed to this issue, I will reveal all the maps for each and every AI. Is that fine?

 

[Lgaard]

One more question:
who has added an ancient tower marked "Gerran's Monument', and for what reason? It seems strange to me.