[BTS] Hesha's Random Questions

[Hesha]

There are some ways to handle this problem.

Good!

Either you move your palace, or you build versilles or forbidden palace.

I know that this addresses the "distance from capital"-maintenance, but colonial maintenance is a separate issue - do these buildings have any effect on that?

(Or you build these wonders on your mainland, and only then move your palace, which is cheaper).

How can building two wonders be cheaper than building one of them? Or do you mean, that the palace might be the better option for the colonies, because they are less productive and would take ages to build the wonders, so the palace can be done sooner?

Or... you adopt state property. (The most common solution).

Again, I am aware that this does away with distance maintenance, but does it do anything about colonial maintenance? In any case, no option in the BCs

Limiting cities to 2 on tiny ofshore islands put some wraps on colonial expenses too.

This is probably what I will have to do. That's a shame, I have hardly any food on my "home" island. (2 pigs, 3 FP, 1 whale, that's it)

Another way is to simply grant the colony independence,

Not sure that is worth the hammers for all the settlers and all that... probably not, right?

 

[krikav]

Colonial maintenence is simply city maintenence *2 or perhaps *3, can't remember.
So distance from palace reduces city maintenence alot, and it also reduces colonial maintenence ALOT.
This is also why state property works, as it reduces city maintenence from distance to 0.
3 * 0 is still 0, thats why colonial maintenence dissapears during state property.

Can't remember, but perhaps having A palace of any kind on the landmass simply removes colonial maintenence alltogether.

If you want to build forbidden palace in a smaller city thats settled later, you first need to build a corthouse and then forbidden palace at 200 hammers. Thats 320 hammers in total.
Just building the palace is way cheaper at 160 hammers.

Granting independence is probably not worth it, no. Requires special circumstances.

 

[Hesha]

Thanks!

 

[Hesha]

This just completely destroyed a game I had put a whole lot of effort in, documenting it with screenshots, organising my saves, trying to play based on everything I have learned here, micromanaging every city every turn... I'm pretty annoyed about this stupic mechanic. I mean... my "colonies" are separated from my home island by 1 (!) tile of coast... it's like 300 BC, none of the options to turn the costs into anything that's not entirely ridiculous are realistically available to me for many turns and that 4th "colony" has just completely crippled me financially. What a pain. Sorry, just venting...

 

[drewisfat]

It's definitely ventworthy, but can't you just go back to the last save before you made the 4th city?

 

[Gumbolt]

Cost can soar to 20-30+ gold per turn for large modern cities. If you can switch to state property then costs would be zero as Krikav suggests. Also you can build court houses. It sounds like this is early on where you have been island hopping.Forbidden Palace and Verseille also help. Unfortunately if your expanding peacefully onto islands your costs are likely going to rise.

Reading from older posts - colonial expenses are capped at twice the distance to palace maintenance.

Without a save to view hard to comment. Plus if your using bug I probably can't load the saves anyway. I have the wrong version. Pictures always help.

If you are trying to cap an Ai you can always liberate cities. I tend to find late game cities often return their city costs. I do often whip a courthouse off captured cities to avoid costs of 28gpt.

If you want to learn the game try sticking to pangea maps till you improve your game play.

 

[Hesha]

I'm half afraid to upload a screenie / save because you'll just tell me how horsehocky my strat is again

But I won't learn if I don't, so I'll get the screenies together and put them in another thread. I've made a savegame every 10 turns along with a screen shot.

 

[lymond]

Colony vassals have their uses in situations, but you should not be afraid to continue expansion because of maintenance. Those cities will pay off later. You can build wealth instead of crap back home for a while until you can get up some CHs overseas, which will reduce that maintenance a lot.

Hey krikav, is a CH a prereq to build FP in the city you build it in, or just the requisite 6 CHs needed empire wide? For some reason I seem to recall that being the cases. I think maybe Globe is like that too. I don't build these guys very often.

 

[krikav]

Yes, you need the CH to build forbidden palace, or a theatre to build globe.
You also need a forge to build ironworks.

 

[Hesha]

but you should not be afraid to continue expansion because of maintenance.

Hmmm. I think you're underestimating the severity of the colonial expenses. It is 325 BC, I have four cities on my home "continent" (there is no more food, not even for sharing), four colonies. My most advanced tech is Construction, I am more advanced than any of the known AIs.

Before founding the 4th colony, my GPT was +34 on 100% tax and -54 on 100% research. After founding the fourth city this changes to +19 and -76, respectively. This means I go from ~3 turns of saving money for every ~2 turns of 100% research to having to save up ~4 turns for every ~1 turn of 100% research. The research output at 100% is virtually the same, 102 with 4 vs 109 with 3 colonies.

This means my research slows down from ~200 beakers every 5 turns to ~100 beakers every 5 turns! That's half. I don't see a way to continue the game with this limitation, I could barely maintain my lead in tech before, no chance to do that now. I might add that the 3rd colony already slowed me down considerably. Building another, 5th colony would totally cripple my research, as every colony gets increased maintenance when you build another one.

Colonial expenses have increased from between 7.58 and 9.91 to between 10.94 and and 12.68.

I will upload that game tomorrow - should I to it one save / screenshot for 10 turns at a time and let you comment or do you prefer me to upload the first 100 turns all at once?

 

[lymond]

Yes, you need the CH to build forbidden palace, or a theatre to build globe.
You also need a forge to build ironworks.

You lie! I am gonna test that in WB there. I swear my memory is not serving me well anymore.

edit yep ..your are right! I'm a fool...


hesh - there are probably other factors to consider. This happens to me all the time on fractal maps which I play almost exclusively. Need to know what you are teching, your improvements, the specialists your are running. Really no way you should be that crippled by 8 cities at 350 bc. Sometimes though you do feel a little pain as you expand but your potential is greater later when things kick in and those cities have basic infra and improvements.

By the way, is Construction something you teched yourself? If so, why? Did you have Currency yet?

 

[Hesha]

I will upload tomorrow / later. Then you can see what I may have done wrong, I dunno.

And yes, construction I am teching myself to attack the AI. It's probably the worst tech to try and trade for, because they just don't want to give it to the player.

 

[Hesha]

It will be a little longer before I post my game, because I just realised that I have a GM on the way about to net me 1300 from the City with ToA... that should float my research for some time!

 

[Gumbolt]

As long as your making gold per turn on zero science that is fine. Especially as you could be running scientists too. In the BC period it's unlikely you will be 100% science every turn. It sounds like the GLH might of been good on this map. Especially if you are settling a lot of coastal cities.

 

[Hesha]

As long as your making gold per turn on zero science that is fine. Especially as you could be running scientists too. In the BC period it's unlikely you will be 100% science every turn. It sounds like the GLH might of been good on this map. Especially if you are settling a lot of coastal cities.

That's the one wonder I have built, that's where my GM came from! Let's see how it works out.

I'm Sitting Bull, so the Mids would have made sense, too, but there was just no way to build them, I have no stone, no IND and another AI, the isolated one, built all the stone wonders, it must certainly have stone, I'd bet it's IND, too.

I wanted to mention that a few posts ago, that this desastrous effect on my economy was despite the fact I have the GLH built!

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Before founding the 4th colony, my GPT was +34 on 100% tax and -54 on 100% research. After founding the fourth city this changes to +19 and -76, respectively. This means I go from ~3 turns of saving money for every ~2 turns of 100% research to having to save up ~4 turns for every ~1 turn of 100% research. The research output at 100% is virtually the same, 102 with 4 vs 109 with 3 colonies.

What, that's all? Pffft, you young entitled Millennials are so quick to whine about being poor while spending half your income on avocado toast. You know, back in my day we were happy if we had even a single gold per turn income at 100% tax! Most of our money came from failbuilding Wonders and selling our techs to AIs for cash, but I guess that doesn't appeal to today's youth anymore .

I'm just kidding, I'm a Millennial myself.

Still, I've pulled myself (and other players) out of worse economic situations, I'm sure this is nothing a few turns of building Wealth and Courthouses and researching Currency can't fix.

I mean... my "colonies" are separated from my home island by 1 (!) tile of coast...

So is Ireland from England, but look how that turned out for them.

 

[Hesha]

As far as I am aware, Ireland was not settled by the English

A better comparison would be Heligoland...

 

[lymond]

It will be a little longer before I post my game, because I just realised that I have a GM on the way about to net me 1300 from the City with ToA... that should float my research for some time!

All this is regressive , hesh. If you want to learn and understand this situation then it makes no sense not to post a save. What does a GM have to do with what we have been discussing. This is about perspective more than anything.

And now knowing you have GLH you really should be i great shape.

 

[lymond]

As far as I am aware, Ireland was not settled by the English ...

Actually it was.....systematically

 

[Gumbolt]

Actually it was settled by Celts from Western Europe before British really landed there. Again you say British. The Normans came from Europe. Same for the Vikings.

The French have been invaded so many times it's hard to say where they truly came from. Charlemagne likely started it off. Gauls, Romans, English. Normans too.

England maybe Anglo Saxons, Normans, Vikings and Romans. England you kind of know as to invade you had to cross the sea to reach her.

So many changes constantly happening. With immigration the face of each nation is changing quickly. Polish, French, Germans and many others nations moving here. Makes you wonder what really makes you English these days? Is living here enough to make you say you are English?

What nationality do you consider yourself Mylene? German?