Hinin's Tweaks for VP

Urzamax

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Hello, I want to ask is there any way to only use 1 component of this mod: no random dmg (I have zero experience with civ 5 mod) ?
Yes, if I recall correctly, the folder with the mod in it should have a component specifically for No-Random-Damage; delete all the other things in the folder and you should be able to make it work.
 

Urzamax

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Please consider moving the changes to GDRs and XCOM squads to a separate file to make it easy to add them back. They are so coooooooooool.
Strongly agreed! If you don't want to see them weirding up the tech-tree, then why not tie them to the World Congress like the WC Reformation mod did? Make it a sort of 'special project' unit.
 

nekokon

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Yes, if I recall correctly, the folder with the mod in it should have a component specifically for No-Random-Damage; delete all the other things in the folder and you should be able to make it work.
Thank you, but I can't see anything that's specifically for no-random-damage here in WarfareTweaks folder. Can you point me to where it is ?
Edit: sorry I'm blind, it's in the General_Changes folder. I thought it would be in the other folder since it's listed under warfare tweaks in the OP. Another question, do I need to edit any code on any other file or just deleting everything else and keeping only that one file CombatDamageRandomnessRemoved.sql is enough ?
 

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Hinin

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Edit: sorry I'm blind, it's in the General_Changes folder. I thought it would be in the other folder since it's listed under warfare tweaks in the OP. Another question, do I need to edit any code on any other file or just deleting everything else and keeping only that one file CombatDamageRandomnessRemoved.sql is enough ?
You just need to delete everything except the files you want and the modinfo. Just be sure to not change the folder in which CombatDamageRandomnessRemoved.sql is in : you mustn't modify the path towards the file, or the modinfo file won't recognize it anymore.
Played a game as France to mid renaissance. 10 players, all of them these tweaked civs - France, Greece, England, Iran, Ottomans, Shoshone, Rome, Byzantium, China, Carthage. King difficulty, epic speed, large communitu map, 20 city states.

France is good. Its has a good push throughout the game. The UA gives some guaranteed production from classical, a (passively acquired) GG to secure some particularly vulnerable fronts. Tourism to production is a roundabout way to scale +2 :c5production: from wonders to later eras (not that I dislike it). +3 :c5food: from great works and GPTIs means goddess of beauty and tradition is a goto pick for France even in hilly starts, with 6 :c5food: to work 2-3 specialists. Really, it cannot be understated how much better this makes manufactories placed on a barren hill for those opting to share the tile between the capital and a secondary city. But the large map I got had other plans, and I founded 8 cities and I had to take progress to pump those settlers out from secondary cities. I picked ancestor worship for some nice wide faith and culture, was unhappy for a while because I had only 2 luxes and until my last cities and the recent trade evaluations made buying tiles to develop them much harder.

Sainte Chapelle is very flexible. I founded a religion with synagogues and orders and those extra yields were quite nice. It does not boost faith bought normal buildings (like amphitheatres, universities through reformation beliefs. This is also stated clearly in the ingame help, so it is probably intentional). A holy site (through the prophet) gives +4 :c5faith: + extra yields for those who want a direct grand temple replacement. The best strategy is probably to spend faith reforming and using this prophet for an enhancement, both of which I did first of all the civs. It comes with an artifact which unlocks a lot of different GP theming with salons before unlocking Archaeology. +10HP on cavalry is nice. I am yet to see if the upgrade discount works when they upgrade to landships. The 10% :c5faith: to :c5culture: conversion nets me about 22 :c5culture: in renaissance

Bombarde Mortier can be described with just two words. Boom Boom. Its a renaissance era siege in medieval era. 29CS means it can shoot units just fine even with siege inaccuracy, which is important to get some use out of quick study and get range. With orders and a war with Carthage, I was able to get range, volley on a couple of them and just range on a couple of them. I am not sure if having a cannon's worth of firepower to break castled cities made sieges fast or if it was the general warfare tweaks or just base VP tweaks but castled cities went down in about 10 turns with just a single bombarde mortier.

I am somewhat mixed about Mousquetaires. They have been moved from commando replacements to light company replacements and now unlock in gunpowder instead of acoustics. With bombarde mortier unlocking in machinery, I was hoping to go astronomy and build Chichen Itza and then to acoustics but I ended up going gunpowder for the unlock for my war against Carthage. Mousquetaires are what mounted melee should be like. I picked trailblazer 2 on all of them, allowing them to usually get 4 movement, ignore zoc, use terrain defence and fortify. Being able to move after attacking means I can stack some of that extra 10% CS for every hit from the UA. Very good synergy, but at 23CS, they trade blows against fortified pikes, longswords and its a bit of a losing matchup against fortified tercios, even with their 25% attack bonus. I still attack with them anyway because they can heal quite fast thanks to benevolence and survivalism means they do not have to go back to friendly territory to get decent heals.

Spoiler I NEED MORE POWER :

But they look like they will not be able to keep up from industrial. Fusiliers get +15%CS against ranged units, they can pick cover 2, giving them a good 65%CS against ranged units and over 100% against the skirmisher line thanks to formation. Meanwhile, mousquetaires are good at defending once they get survivalism 2 in renaissance, but the raw CS disparity gets much higher in industrial with fusiliers and commandos, not to mention commandos unlock at dynamite, much later than Fusiliers. With increased tech costs on medieval era and later, and France needing to focus on getting the Louvre which is on a different tech path, mousquetaires will be bench warmers for much of industrial era.
Mousquetaires level up very quickly thanks to being a recon unit, which means they get access to nice promos like survivalism 3 but have little else to do after that. Medic is redundant with benevolence, you do not need more than a single spotter, that eliminates scouting (on all units except a couple). To keep them relevant in industrial it would be nice if they can get cover like fusiliers to tank, and/or get shock and overrun which could make excellent use of trailblazer 2 and the tweaked benevolence.

About general gameplay changes, the new horseman truly feels like the end of the world in an era where supply and maintenance is at a premium. Interestingly, with the recent removal of cover on the sword line, it might be a better idea to go for the spear line because with formation 1 they can protect themselves against skirmishers and counter horsemen. Longswords are definitely better with drill 1 and cover 1.

Not sure about the changes to city defence. Castled? cities with around 700HP still took about 10 turns to take with a single bombarde mortier. Early palisade unlock means base VP Japan gets a minor buff which they badly need.

Well is now better than water mills. It trades off 1 :c5production: for 1 :c5food: and then a scaler but the cost for the era is too high on water mills and it unlocks later. I settled a couple of cities next to lakes and oasis and not next to a river just for this reason and to get baths later on.

Now, about other civs, I must admit I was wrong about Byzantium being weak (it is probably weak in human hands though). I am still exploring their lands to see if Aplektons are indeed not terrible as I think but Byzantium, Rome and Greece are neck to neck in culture and science and a couple techs ahead of me. Byzantium spread their religion to half the continent and she has 3 votes in the congress now. Ottomans snagged Colossus and are as good as Rome in terms of science although they probably are struggling a little because of how specific their printing press is. I have no idea how Greece is so good but good for him. All of them opted for Industry and are probably going to kill me in world congress projects. Speaking of world congress projects, Rome has been swimming in production. With 20% in secondary cities, copper monopoly, progress, and golden ages thanks to his UA, he is pushing 45%-65% more production than us all. He built Chichen Itza, Summer palace, Sistine chapel and is competing with me for Porcelain tower.

Spoiler Rome OP as expected (I don't mind) :


Spoiler other civs are not too far from rome :


Shoshone and England are guarded with England being much weaker than the above civs and me in culture. Good for me, I met England through Atlantic ocean. I can only contemplate how OP redcoats are when they attack someone over Pacific ocean. Still, I have refrained from settling an Island city right between us with 2 unique luxes for me, just because its renaissance era. Iran isn't doing too bad now but I expect them to fall behind as they have taken imperialism. China is the only civ that seems to not fare too well with a terrible economy and 2 techs and policies behind me. With how close everyone is, except for England and China, I think the mod is reasonably balanced but I am not sure how balanced this is with other civs from base VP.

Please consider moving the changes to GDRs and XCOM squads to a separate file to make it easy to add them back. They are so coooooooooool.
Thank you very much for your detailed review. It's was a pleasure to read, and I'll make sure to take it into account for the next version (including putting the giant death robot and xcom squad removal in a separate file).
Strongly agreed! If you don't want to see them weirding up the tech-tree, then why not tie them to the World Congress like the WC Reformation mod did? Make it a sort of 'special project' unit.
I mean, to me these are units that shouldn't even be present in the game (because Hinin is a downer), but I understand that it is not the case for everyone. As I said, I'll separate the files so that you can keep these if you want.
 
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gwennog

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May 31, 2015
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@Hinin, Shoshones Rework don't load properly for me (always the standard VP version).
The problem seems to come from :
Code:
UPDATE UnitPromotions SET IsVisibleAboveFlag = 0 WHERE Type = 'PROMOTION_GOODY_HUT_PICKER';
I can't find the column IsVisibleAboveFlag in the UnitPromotions table and if I remove the line, your rework load properly.
 

Hinin

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@Hinin, Shoshones Rework don't load properly for me (always the standard VP version).
The problem seems to come from :
Code:
UPDATE UnitPromotions SET IsVisibleAboveFlag = 0 WHERE Type = 'PROMOTION_GOODY_HUT_PICKER';
I can't find the column IsVisibleAboveFlag in the UnitPromotions table and if I remove the line, your rework load properly.
It's a reference line for the Promotion Flags EUI for VP (v 3.1) mod which is a staple for many players. You can delete the line of course if it poses problem.
 

gwennog

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It's a reference line for the Promotion Flags EUI for VP (v 3.1) mod which is a staple for many players. You can delete the line of course if it poses problem.
Yes, I know but if a player don't use this mod, he will have a wobbly version of the Shoshone, what's before this line works and what's after doesn't. By just checking that this entry exists, you will avoid the problem.
 

Hinin

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Yes, I know but if a player don't use this mod, he will have a wobbly version of the Shoshone, what's before this line works and what's after doesn't. By just checking that this entry exists, you will avoid the problem.
That's the problem : I don't really know how to do that. If you can give me the way to do it properly, I'll adapt all the potential components with it.
Simply take the file for the Shoshones and the WarfareRework file, add some lines to one or two components to show me the way, and that'll do I think.
 

gwennog

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Simply take the file for the Shoshones and the WarfareRework file, add some lines to one or two components to show me the way, and that'll do I think.
Please find adapted WarfareRework file (for all custom units). I have no merit, it's the method of @adan_eslavo.

In line 1 to 18, you have the detection of the presence of MUCfVP and you can use this to all custom units from this mod after, with :
Code:
WHERE ... AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='REF_MUCfVP' AND Value= 1);

For the Shoshone, it's more complicated because the column doesn't exist, it's my knowledge limit in SQL :blush:. I'm looking but without success so far. A transitional solution is to put the incriminated line at the end of the file, if it crashes, it only crashes itself :).
 

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How modular is the mod exactly? For example: can I remove Sainte-Chapelle and get Chateux instead? (not that I really want to, just a hypothetical question)
Do these things "fallback" to original VP or 4UC?

I see it's a separate file but I'm wondering if there are any references to it elsewhere which would break.

Edit: just checked that Machrek rework is in one file, so I guess commenting out could potentially work.
Again, not that I really want to, your civ changes are absolutely fantastic! First I was hesitant (other than France and the Arabia-Byzantine swap, the latter which should be in base-VP imo) but I'm getting more and more sold on the other changes as well! :)

Amazing work, thank you very much!
 
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Hinin

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How modular is the mod exactly? For example: can I remove Sainte-Chapelle and get Chateux instead? (not that I really want to, just a hypothetical question)
Do these things "fallback" to original VP or 4UC?
It depends. On some civs, like France or Rome, almost all elements are modular. It's less the case for some later civs, like the Incas or Japan. There is always this balance to find between making things easily modulable and creating a mess of files.

The best short term solution, I think, is simply to ask me when you dislike a specific element within a file, and want to remove it. I can then give you a new version of the required file without the element.
In the long term, I'll have to think about what to do with all of this. I now have far more elements than what I was thinking about at the start. But that's the beauty of modding once you have the means to change things you've been thinking about for a while. :)
Please find adapted WarfareRework file (for all custom units). I have no merit, it's the method of @adan_eslavo.

In line 1 to 18, you have the detection of the presence of MUCfVP and you can use this to all custom units from this mod after, with :
Code:
WHERE ... AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='REF_MUCfVP' AND Value= 1);

For the Shoshone, it's more complicated because the column doesn't exist, it's my knowledge limit in SQL :blush:. I'm looking but without success so far. A transitional solution is to put the incriminated line at the end of the file, if it crashes, it only crashes itself :).
Thanks a lot. I'll see what I can do for the rest. :D

P.S. : Here is a WIP version including big changes to warfare, specifically unit production, supply and war weariness. Don't forget to activate the custom Reduce Supply mod by @balparmak present in it to have the intended experience.
 

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It depends. On some civs, like France or Rome, almost all elements are modular. It's less the case for some later civs, like the Incas or Japan. There is always this balance to find between making things easily modulable and creating a mess of files.

The best short term solution, I think, is simply to ask me when you dislike a specific element within a file, and want to remove it. I can then give you a new version of the required file without the element.
In the long term, I'll have to think about what to do with all of this. I now have far more elements than what I was thinking about at the start. But that's the beauty of modding once you have the means to change things you've been thinking about for a while. :)

Yeah sure I understand, no worries. Thank you, that's really kind of you, but I don't want to "harass" you with this, I'll just dig bit deeper and comment out what I don't like (if there is anything even, the more I think about your changes the more I'm fond of them :) )
But that's the beauty of modding once you have the means to change things you've been thinking about for a while. :)

So true. I've been forging my own modmod which focuses on internal matters for years now but just can't finish it :D Always add new or scratch and just redo things...
 

BornDownUnder

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I really like the changes of your mod!

It adds alot of depth to the gameplay for the civilzation tweaks/adjustments. The only issue I have is I very much prefer the original civ leaders which brings me to my question:

How would I go about removing the new leaders yet keeping the civ changes? They seem to be quite intertwined.
 

Hinin

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How would I go about removing the new leaders yet keeping the civ changes? They seem to be quite intertwined.
There are very easy to remove if you know how to use a sql editor like notepad++, but I understand that not everyone is ready to do that.

Be assured that the custom leaders will be fully modular in the next version.
Hi, just wanted to say that this mod is incredible! A must have for all players that love the early eras.
It's very kind of you. :)
Don't hesitate to leave detailed reviews to help the tweaks evolve.
Does it need to be updated or can I play it with new version without any problems?
A new version will come out soon. That said, I don't think there are problems with the v.7, aside from the Shoshones if you don't use the PromotionFlags mod.
 

danymatrix

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I am very interested in that new version. ETA? Is there an estimated date? like to start a new game. thanks in advance. @Hinin
There are very easy to remove if you know how to use a sql editor like notepad++, but I understand that not everyone is ready to do that.

Be assured that the custom leaders will be fully modular in the next version.

It's very kind of you. :)
Don't hesitate to leave detailed reviews to help the tweaks evolve.

A new version will come out soon. That said, I don't think there are problems with the v.7, aside from the Shoshones if you don't use the PromotionFlags mod.
 
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