Historical Argument That Was In the Wrong Forum

[Kupe Navigator]

how CCP was inspired in Confucius to do it own behaviour.

You seem to think anything CCP says is the gospel truth. Tell me since CCP claim Hanbok( traditional Korean dress) is Chinese dose it make Hanbok Chinese?https://thediplomat.com/2021/02/a-korean-poet-is-the-latest-example-of-chinas-cultural-imperialism/
BTW this is major reason why there's strong anti Chinese opinion in Korea right now and if you were in Korea right now you would be mocked and insulted.

 

[Henri Christophe]

The CCP was not actually inspired by Confucius, is the point your missing. It was inspired by Karl Marx, Vladimir Lenin, Josef Stalin, Mao Zedong, and Deng Xiaopeng. In fact, Mao actively SUPPRESSED Confucian ideals and BURNT Confucian texts and jailed, executed, or forced into exile Confucian scholars during the Cultural Revolution. This, "Confucian inspiration," supposed from a man who had nothing in common with Communist ideology, was retconned for pure propaganda purposes in the '80's

I agree that Mao Zedong was anti Confucius because he want to "modernize" the China and it means be against all China have accomplished in it millenar history. But, as you also said, it start to change in the '80's to purpose of propaganda. What I know is, nowadays the CCP is trying to emulate Conficius taughts and it is very cool.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

But, as you also said, it start to change in the '80's to purpose of propaganda. What I know is, nowadays the CCP is trying to emulate Conficius taughts and it is very cool.

not really. At best they are just using Confucianism for their own benefit. It is nothing but Propaganda like YOU said. Heck Mao Zedong is still regarded as founding father of China and where Chinese version of Communism came from.

 

[Henri Christophe]

not really. At best they are just using Confucianism for their own benefit. It is nothing but Propaganda like YOU said. Heck Mao Zedong is still regarded as founding father of China and where Chinese version of Communism came from.

The communism changes a lot since Mao Zedong, Mao will still venerate as the founder father of Modern China, but that don't means Mao Zedong have commited some errors in his life, CCP shouldn't speak about this errors, but they don't will repeat it also.

I guess the real father of modern comunism in China is Deng Xiaopeng, he change a lot how the China do the stuffs

 

[Kupe Navigator]

The communism changes a lot since Mao Zedong, Mao will still venerate as the founder father of Modern China, but that don't means Mao Zedong have commited some errors in his life, CCP shouldn't speak about this errors, but they don't will repeat it also.

I guess the real father of modern comunism in China is Deng Xiaopeng, he change a lot how the China do the stuffs

you are repeating word by word on propaganda by CCP.
https://www.quora.com/Is-the-CCP-em...-is-converting-to-the-Chinese-Confucian-Party
CCP dose not fully embrace Confucianism. Also you can't ignore distruction of Confusionsim Idelogy by Mao as "one man's mistake" when the damage is so big. Heck it has gotten to the point that China has to ask information on Confucianism from Taiwan and Korea because of Cultural suicide they did, You keep on saying "cultural revolution is just one mistake by Mao and is irrelevant today's CCP"

 

[Henri Christophe]

you are repeating word by word on propaganda by CCP.
https://www.quora.com/Is-the-CCP-em...-is-converting-to-the-Chinese-Confucian-Party
CCP dose not fully embrace Confucianism. Also you can't ignore distruction of Confusionsim Idelogy by Mao as "one man's mistake" when the damage is so big. Heck it has gotten to the point that China has to ask information on Confucianism from Taiwan and Korea because of Cultural suicide they did, You keep on saying "cultural revolution is just one mistake by Mao and is irrelevant today's CCP"

Yes it was a mistake and communism in China have the power to re-invented it self and don't comite the same error again. Why they should to be attached to errors of the past if they already recognize it was an error?

 

[Plotinus]

Can I also just point out that a key difference between Tibet and indigenous peoples in America is that if indigenous peoples in America want independence, they're allowed to say so.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Yes it was a mistake and communism in China have the power to re-invented it self and don't comite the same error again. Why they should to be attached to errors of the past if they already recognize it was an error?

But did they really? "Confucianism has made comeback as the Communist Party looks for ways to justify its authoritarianism and forge a common Chinese identity. In the 1990s, Confucianism was promoted to provide moral teachings and counteract the decadence and materialism brought about by the Deng reforms."
https://factsanddetails.com/china/cat3/sub9/entry-4319.html
They did it not because they released that they were in the wrong but rather because they needed something to unite China.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Can I also just point out that a key difference between Tibet and indigenous peoples in America is that if indigenous peoples in America want independence, they're allowed to say so.

There is freedom of speech in the west, I already understand it, but how far an indigenous group in Americas can go to purpuise it's independence?
They can't took in arms, I'm sure the freedom in the west have their limites.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

They can't took in arms, I'm sure the freedom in the west have their limites

You do realize that they can buy guns in America much as anyone else right? Hello? Second ammendment anyone?

 

[Plotinus]

It's an absurdly false equivalence anyway. There isn't a substantial desire for independence among native Americans. Their situation isn't anything like that of Tibet. Just as neither the US nor any other western nation - for all their faults - is currently engaging in genocide, and neither do they put people in prison for talking about their past crimes. To suggest that the Chinese regime is morally equivalent, let alone superior, to western democracies is nonsense. Western democracies have many serious problems and are guilty of many bad things, but they don't compare to what the communist regime in China has done in the past and is doing right now.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

There is freedom of speech in the west, I already understand it, but how far an indigenous group in Americas can go to purpuise it's independence?
They can't took in arms, I'm sure the freedom in the west have their limites.

Please don't run away from this point.

It's an absurdly false equivalence anyway. There isn't a substantial desire for independence among native Americans. Their situation isn't anything like that of Tibet. Just as neither the US nor any other western nation - for all their faults - is currently engaging in genocide, and neither do they put people in prison for talking about their past crimes. To suggest that the Chinese regime is morally equivalent, let alone superior, to western democracies is nonsense. Western democracies have many serious problems and are guilty of many bad things, but they don't compare to what the communist regime in China has done in the past and is doing right now.

 

[Henri Christophe]

It's an absurdly false equivalence anyway. There isn't a substantial desire for independence among native Americans. Their situation isn't anything like that of Tibet. Just as neither the US nor any other western nation - for all their faults - is currently engaging in genocide, and neither do they put people in prison for talking about their past crimes. To suggest that the Chinese regime is morally equivalent, let alone superior, to western democracies is nonsense. Western democracies have many serious problems and are guilty of many bad things, but they don't compare to what the communist regime in China has done in the past and is doing right now.

First, how you are so sure there is no desire for independence among native americans?
What the USA made with his Native American is very close to a genocide, they don't move the people to the jail but move to reservations instead, what is very similar.
The only difference between Tibet and Native Americans is the Native Americans genocide was made way earlier.

 

[Patine]

The only difference between Tibet and Native Americans is the Native Americans genocide was made way earlier.

And the relevancy of this tidbit is, what, exactly?

 

[Patine]

First, how you are so sure there is no desire for independence among native americans?

There has actually been extensive dialogue and discussion with Native American and First Nations leaders in the U.S. and Canada. A LOT of open and candid discussion. Only Hawai'i tends to gravitate toward outright independence. Other Native American/First Nations/Inuit groups very strongly support increased autonomy and more recognition of old lands and past injustices. Not outright independence. This is known because it's been actually openly and frankly discussed for years.

This dialogue is NOT at all happening on any level between the PRC and Tibet and the Uyghurs.

 

[Henri Christophe]

There has actually been extensive dialogue and discussion with Native American and First Nations leaders in the U.S. and Canada. A LOT of open and candid discussion. Only Hawai'i tends to gravitate toward outright independence. Other Native American/First Nations/Inuit groups very strongly support increased autonomy and more recognition of old lands and past injustices. Not outright independence. This is known because it's been actually openly and frankly discussed for years.

This dialogue is NOT at all happening on any level between the PRC and Tibet and the Uyghurs.

Maybe China dosen't have a "dialogue" with Tibet/Uyghurs, but at least they have a state/province to they in mainland China. Where they can have their own state leaders.
Meanwhile in USA the Lakota/Navajo just have reservation, any statehood to them.
Even Oklahoma, the indigenous state, have more white people then indigenous and when they try to do a new state to them, the Sequoyah state. It was denied by US governement.

 

[Patine]

Maybe China dosen't have a "dialogue" with Tibet/Uyghurs, but at least they have a state/province to they in mainland China. Where they can have their own state leaders.

Chinese Provinces have no true self-government from the Central Government at all, not like Canadian Provinces and U.S. and Brazilian States do. Your viewpoint here is erroneous compared to the situation on the ground.

Meanwhile in USA the Lakota/Navajo just have reservation, any statehood to them.
Even Oklahoma, the indigenous state, have more white people then indigenous and when they try to do a new state to them, the Sequoyah state. It was denied by US governement.

Native American/First Nations/Inuit self-government is not based on the same divide as U.S. States or Canadian Provinces, but definitely still exists, very much so. Like that Indigenous self-governing areas map of Brazil you showed me, actually.

 

[Plotinus]

What the USA made with his Native American is very close to a genocide, they don't move the people to the jail but move to reservations instead, what is very similar.
The only difference between Tibet and Native Americans is the Native Americans genocide was made way earlier.

Yes, and when the white settlers did those things to the Native Americans, they weren't a democracy. The US only became a democracy (more or less) in the twentieth century.

You'd think that the argument "westerners did terrible things centuries ago, so that makes it OK for others to do equally terrible things right now" ought to be so self-evidently bad that people would stop saying it, but here we are.

 

[sophie]

Their situation isn't anything like that of Tibet. Just as neither the US nor any other western nation - for all their faults - is currently engaging in genocide

Do you honestly believe this?

 

[Ajidica]

Do you honestly believe this?

Do you honestly believe this?