History questions not worth their own thread V

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This is probably a stupid question (then again I guess that might be more or less what this thread is for), but does Assyria's Unique Ability in Civ V actually have any historical relevance?

In case you don't know, it's that they get a free tech from their opponent each time they capture one of their cities that they've never had before.

I find it frankly extremely doubtful that this had any real-world relevance at all and is just something fireaxis did because they thought it would be a cool UA in a game (they were right).

On a similar note, were Assyrian Siege towers legitimately effective for their time, or they were just on par with roughly everybody else that had one?
 
This is probably a stupid question (then again I guess that might be more or less what this thread is for), but does Assyria's Unique Ability in Civ V actually have any historical relevance?

In case you don't know, it's that they get a free tech from their opponent each time they capture one of their cities that they've never had before.

I find it frankly extremely doubtful that this had any real-world relevance at all and is just something fireaxis did because they thought it would be a cool UA in a game (they were right).

On a similar note, were Assyrian Siege towers legitimately effective for their time, or they were just on par with roughly everybody else that had one?

No it is not. But I guess it is more usefull than massacring all population.

Germany also is silly. Leader is Bismarck, UU is panzer and spearmen and UP is from antique.
 
No it is not.
Thanks. That's what I figured, but some of the UA's are actually (somewhat) accurate so I wanted to make sure.


But I guess it is more usefull than massacring all population.
We already have the Huns for that. ;)

Germany also is silly. Leader is Bismarck, UU is panzer and spearmen and UP is from antique.

Pikeman not spearman! Anyway I can at least see that their were germanic tribes that were barbarians (has to do with getting barbs to your side), their pikeman UU actually was a part of the HRE (that said, HRE and Germany have pretty much nothing to do with each other). Panzer is probably the only real one, but that's kind of stupid because Russia had better tanks than Germany in WW2, but Germany gets a UU tank and Russia does not.

edit: I think Germany would be better off getting a UA like they did in RFC of Civ IV (something that somehow gives them a boost in the industrial era).
 
This is probably a stupid question (then again I guess that might be more or less what this thread is for), but does Assyria's Unique Ability in Civ V actually have any historical relevance?

It's a combination of probably two things.

One, they were a pioneer of military technology - one of the first Mesopotamian cultures to switch to massive use of iron working as opposed to bronze.

Second is just the Great Library of Nineveh, which was a repository of culture, medicine, mysticism, and pseudo-science of all sorts. Nineveh was probably the greatest accumulation of knowledge of that time. The actual purpose of this knowledge is debated. H.W.F. Saggs, who wrote "The Might the was Assyria" thought that Ashurbanipal's efforts to seek out this knowledge was more about superstition and a belief that the words themselves had mystical powers. I'm sure he isn't the only view, though.
 
It's a combination of probably two things.

One, they were a pioneer of military technology - one of the first Mesopotamian cultures to switch to massive use of iron working as opposed to bronze.

Second is just the Great Library of Nineveh, which was a repository of culture, medicine, mysticism, and pseudo-science of all sorts. Nineveh was probably the greatest accumulation of knowledge of that time. The actual purpose of this knowledge is debated. H.W.F. Saggs, who wrote "The Might the was Assyria" thought that Ashurbanipal's efforts to seek out this knowledge was more about superstition and a belief that the words themselves had mystical powers. I'm sure he isn't the only view, though.

Interesting. I'm not surprised that you didn't mention their free tech for capturing an enemy city. Honestly, how could that be historically accurate? What did they do? Capture the scientists of their enemies? Not only is that stupid in and of itself, but 'scientist' was not really a thing back then I would think.
 
COMPUTER GAME MECHANICS DON'T EXACTLY MATCH HISTORY

more at eleven!
 
COMPUTER GAME MECHANICS DON'T EXACTLY MATCH HISTORY

more at eleven!

computer game mechanics not exactly matching history is something, but when they made something up just out of thin air I'm a bit on the disappointed side.
 
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computer game mechanics not exactly matching history is something, but when they made something up just out of thin air I'm a bit on the disappointed side.
I don't see a real issue with the mechanic. It is a neat mechanic that sort of represents the Assyrian's skill at sieges.
It isn't like any other civ's UA is 'more realistic'.
 
computer game mechanics not exactly matching history is something, but when they made something up just out of thin air I'm a bit on the disappointed side.

It really isn't that silly. By expanding your empire and incorporating other peoples into it, you will have an opportunity to take advantage of thier knowledge and technology. For example, the Mongols were famous for using siege weapons designed and built by captured Chinese engineers. Or Alexander adding Elephants to his army after defeating Darius at Gaugamela.

This was actually how the early civ games worked, you recieved technologies for capturing cities.
 
Interesting. I'm not surprised that you didn't mention their free tech for capturing an enemy city. Honestly, how could that be historically accurate? What did they do? Capture the scientists of their enemies? Not only is that stupid in and of itself, but 'scientist' was not really a thing back then I would think.

That's precisely what I was talking about. It's an abstract representation of the fact that they were warmongers who used the latest scientific technology. They also liked to conquer people, steal their knowledge (written on clay tablets), and stick it in their library. Their ability is called "Treasures of Nineveh" and clearly refers to the Great Library there, which was stocked with knowledge stolen from others.

I didn't talk about literally the ability because a) You already knew what it was so you should be able to figure out I was talking about it from the mere fact that I was talking about science and b) Abilities are inherently metaphorical in the game*, so it was better to talk about what the metaphor represents directly. Out of all the Civ abilities, it's actually one of the more representative ones. I thought that was clear from my post, but apparently not because you were more disappointed after the post.

* Americans don't see farther than others, Persians don't move faster when they've been happy for a really long time, the Spanish treasury didn't massively increase merely upon finding the Barringer Crater, and the Inca still had to pay for roads, even when they are on hills. Not everyone can be the Polynesians.
 
During the early reformation, around the Augsburg peace 1555, was the option of citizens choosing their worship by themselves on the table? If it was, what kind of argumentation was presented against it?
 
During the early reformation, around the Augsburg peace 1555, was the option of citizens choosing their worship by themselves on the table? If it was, what kind of argumentation was presented against it?

Well the Peace of Augsburg really never mentioned the possibility for ordinary people to choose their own religion, or even being allowed to worship within whatever branch of Protestantism they belonged to. The Peace settlement specifically was given for the rulers within the territories of the Holy Roman Empire, and any consideration given to ordinary people was minimal at best. You'll see at this time as well the witch hunts were beginning to climax, and these almost always were against ordinary Protestants and Jews living within the territories of the HRE. To answer your question, no, The Peace of Augsburg really didn't mention people being able to worship on their own.
 
The end result didn't mention, but was that an option that was considered? The "cuius regio, eius religio" -thing was, or at least seems to me, a half step there.
 
I think the very concept of freedom of religion was alien when people believed that God would rain fire and brimstone down upon your village for worshiping the wrong religion. Certainly, ensuring community harmony and community religious worship was seen as essential by everyone. They just agreed to stop ensuring that some other community worshiped the same way. So, it was for local control, not individual freedom. It probably was a stepping stone towards eventually achieving individual religious freedom, but it certainly wasn't intended that way.
 
During the early reformation, around the Augsburg peace 1555, was the option of citizens choosing their worship by themselves on the table? If it was, what kind of argumentation was presented against it?
Initially, the famous phrase cvivs regio, eivs religio was not actually included in the treaty. There are in fact no references to it until Reichskammergericht cases in the 1580s. The actual Augsburg document did not enshrine the right of princes to alter religious confessions in an area, and didn't even really define Lutheranism or Catholicism at all. So the confessional line was deliberately blurry. The ivs reformandi, the "right of reformation", was not a unilateral power given to princes, but rather was supposed to be a way to recognize the way things were on the ground, among the actual inhabitants of an area. And with the ivs emigrandi, the right of emigration, subjects who dissented with the way religious affairs were structured in the state were free to leave - an acknowledgement of a sort of religious freedom that had little precedent at the time.

But for papist objections, some of these rights would've been considerably more expansive. The ivs emigrandi was in fact watered down from the original protestant proposal of freedom of conscience, intended to protect reformant congregations living in Catholic territories. (In a separate document dated the same day as the Augsburg peace, 24 September 1555, the Emperor conceded limited freedom of conscience for burghers of certain cities and the ecclesiastical territories, and for much of the nobility in the crown lands of Bohemia - a concession clearly linked with the ivs emigrandi negotiations.) In addition, the Emperor inserted the so-called "ecclesiastical reservation" into the treaty, preventing any protestant prince from assuming rulership of a Catholic ecclesiastical territory, effectively sabotaging the ivs reformandi effort to keep the political leadership and the local population of a given area confessionally coherent.

The notion of a totally secular monarchy disconnected from any religious institutions would not be first suggested until Jean Bodin, the French lawyer, brought up the idea of the pax civilis in response to the civil wars in his home country in the 1570s. And even then, it was not a particularly popular suggestion; church and state had been closely intertwined for twelve hundred years and that arrangement was not exactly easy to abandon. So when the Augsburg peace was crafted, it was not a serious suggestion. But the treaty did allow for more freedom of conscience than had been contemplated in Christian Europe up to that point, and would've allowed for more if not for the objections of Catholic interests.
 
I vaguely remember reading about some book that was popular in 18th-century Europe that was about Persian ambassadors' observations of Europeans. Does anyone know what book that might be?
 
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