HOF Questions and Answers Thread

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Can you get a screen shot of the window displaying the error? Please attach it to a new post. Try holding down the Alt key and pressing the PrtScn key (window will be copied to the clipboard). Or use PrtScn alone (entire screen will be copied to the clipboard), if necessary. You may need to run BtS in windowed mode (not full screen) or BtS may intercept the PrtScn key event. On second thought, full screen and BtS handled PrtScn key event may work just as well, but you may need to look in the folder where BtS saves screen shots rather than the clipboard.

BTW, sometimes BUFFY will generate incorrect warnings for certain maps. So try something like Pangaea. I've never seen a false HoF warning for this map type and I use it a lot.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Ozbenno]

Have you checked Locked Modified Assets?

This is a good question! Also check F8 screen under the settings tab, problem will be highlighted in red.

Best bet is to load up a saved game that is using BUFFY, rather than loading mod from start screen, that's what I do.

 

[HCB]

It got worst, game wasn´t even loading anymore. Even after restoring .ini file and checking/uncheking the "run as admin" checkbox. It wasn´t loading HOF, nor buffy, nor the unmoded game itself. I must have messed up to hard with it.

I had a previous install of the game with the same problem (i.e NOT enabling HOF games either, only buffy) on my trashbin. It was on trashbin because usual unistall commands were not available and no idea why so just deledted that for the time being. I wanted to play so much last night that I just thought, heck, I will restore the old install and play it even if the game is not HOF enabled.

So, restored the install, loaded the game, loaded buffy and voila, no error msg saying game would not be hof. Problem solved. Running fine with buffy and HOF enabled game. I have nooo idea why but it´s working alright now.

Anyway, thanks very much for the prompt attention gents!

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Glad you finally got it working, HCB!

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

The Inca Empire (Huayna Capac; Quechuas) is not allowed in Gauntlets or Elite Quatrromaters. There is also a filter or check box for Excluding the Inca Empire for the Ad Hoc Query.

How does one filter out Inca Empire games from the Hall of Fame tables?

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Ozbenno]

How does one filter out Inca Empire games from the Hall of Fame tables?

Currently there isn't. The only way is (as you say) to look at the Ad-Hoc query.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Currently there isn't. The only way is (as you say) to look at the Ad-Hoc query.

Would such a filter be considered in the future for the Hall of Fame Tables? It seems that it wouldn't be too difficult to implement, since the Inca Empire filter already exists as part of the Ad Hoc Query.

There is a vast difficulty difference between Inca Empire games and non-Inca Empire games and players should be able to easily compare their games to either all games or just non-Inca Empire games via a checkbox on the main page.

Thanks,

Sun Tzu wu

 

[Denniz]

Would such a filter be considered in the future for the Hall of Fame Tables? It seems that it wouldn't be too difficult to implement, since the Inca Empire filter already exists as part of the Ad Hoc Query.

There is a vast difficulty difference between Inca Empire games and non-Inca Empire games and players should be able to easily compare their games to either all games or just non-Inca Empire games via a checkbox on the main page.

Thanks,

Sun Tzu wu

The Inca are valid for all HOF Tables. The filter for Adhoc was to assist with EQM related queries. Inca are only disallowed for EQM purposes. No filter like that for the general HOF Tables would be appropriate.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

The Inca are valid for all HOF Tables. The filter for Adhoc was to assist with EQM related queries. Inca are only disallowed for EQM purposes. No filter like that for the general HOF Tables would be appropriate.

I'm just asking for a checkbox for those players that want to filter out Inca Empire games. The default should be "allow" Inca Empire. I'm not asking for a ban on the Inca Empire now.

Everyone knows that the Inca Empire with it Quechua is overpowerful. That is why the Civ in banned in EQM and not allowed in Gauntlets, except when explicitly required to be the Player Civ.

A new map generating strategy that causes maps with significantly less than half the usual number of plots has made the Inca Empire with its Quechua much more powerful. There are players that could apply this new map dependent strategy and take the #1 slot in the vast majority of all higher level (including Deity) tables, even on the quicker speeds. It is now so much easier to win with the Inca Empire, it is vitually impossible for non-Inca Empire games to compete.

Eventually, we will have a Hall of Fame table totally dominated by Inca Empire games. Everyone who wants to place well in the HoF table will have little choice than to play the Inca Empire.

If an Inca Empire filter checkbox is provided, players can see how there game compares to either all games or if there game is non-Inca Empire, they can check the box and see how they rank among just non-Inca Empire games.

Such a change might revitalize the HoF a little. Seems like a win - win change to me. A solid table of Inca Empire wins would be depressing for most players who prefer to play non-Inca Empire games.

A lot of players consider the Quechua so over powered that they compare Deity with Inca/Quechuas equivalent to Emperor with a non-Inca Civ (two difficulty levels lower). Based on the new strategy mentioned above, it may even be worse than that (three difficulty levels?).

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[WastinTime]

Such a change might revitalize the HoF a little.

If you've been around long enough, you probably remember when the HoF only featured Map Size. It was not broken down into game speeds. When one of my carefully played quick or normal games was smothered by Inca/Marathon garbage, I was ready to bail out of the HoF. I hated the Inca and Marathon, and I supported bans on them, so I know exactly how STW feels. But when we split it into featuring all speeds, it saved it for me. That really opened it up to a lot of more interesting slots to play for. However, it took a while to get more meaningful games into many of the slots or even just fill the slot with anything (thx cabert). An Inca filter might create an even larger void. I can't imagine what the Marathon/Conquest tables would even look like.

I can see how, in the wrong hands , the Inca could creep into an excessive amount of HoF slots, but I'm not sure we're there yet. (even after ~6 years?)
An Inca filter is an interesting idea. Bts only...or 'BtS 3.19 only' are a couple more.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

In my opinion, the Inca filter would be a great addition. It would allow those players that consider Inca Empire games as noise, to filter that noise out of the Hall of Fame tables. If that reveals any empty tables, it also reveals an opportunity for a 100 score EQM game. If an Inca filter were implemented, I can assure you any empty slots (only Inca games) would be filled rather quickly.

I just Ad-Hoc Query checked Deity Conquest/Marathon and found that only Large has no non-Inca submission. I'd happily fill that void. I also checked Deity Conquest/Quick-Epic and all these tables already have non-Inca submissions in every slot.

I also Ad-Hoc checked the remaining Deity Victory Conditions for tables lacking non-Inca submisions and found only one:

Cultural/Marathon/Duel

So applying the Inca filter would result in exactly two empty HoF slots. That's clearly not a good reason to avoid implenting the Inca filter.

Finally, a clarification of how the Inca filter could revitalize the HoF: There aren't many posters in the Strategy and Tips that have a good opinion of the HoF. Without question, nearly all of them consider the Inca Empire and its Quechua as an exploit. It may help attract a few of those players to the HoF, by offering the Inca filter check box so they don't have to compare their games to submissions that to what they consider an exploitative Civ.

BTW, the Civ IV HoF already had speed divisions when I joined.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[WastinTime]

Some would also probably like to filter out "no barbs" games and "huts on". That'd be a lot of games.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Some would also probably like to filter out "no barbs" games and "huts on". That'd be a lot of games.

These options are allowed in HoF EQM and in HoF Gauntlets and HoF Challenges, unless prohitted in a specific Gauntlet or Challenge.

Conversely, the Inca Empire is never allowed in HoF EQM, and never allowed to compete with non-Inca Civilizations in HoF Gauntlets or Challenges.

These bans on the Inca Empire were enforced for the very good reason that the Inca Empire with its Resourceless Quechua can capture several Workers and Cities with impunity extremely early in the game well before any AI Civ can provide significant resistance, setting up a Food/Production/Commerce Lead that no other Player Civilization can match.

In retrospect, the people setting up the Civ IV HoF should have banned the Inca Empire from the very beginning due to its being irrevokably unbalanced/overpowered. However, they did not, and there are large numbers of Inca games in the HoF tables, and those games should continue to be allowed in the tables, plus future Inca games should also be allowed. The only reasonable alternative to a total ban is to implement an Inca filter. In its default unchecked state, the HoF table will appear exactly as it does today. However, players of non-Inca games can check the Inca filter and compare their games to other non-Inca games (most of which are also HoF EQM eligible).

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[WastinTime]

and never allowed to compete with non-Inca Civilizations in HoF Gauntlets or Challenges.

The Inca do appear in both of these.

The Inca would only need to be excluded from a couple gauntlets, but the staff just set up a default condition, so they are often excluded redundantly or for no good reason.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

The Inca do appear in both of these.

The Inca would only need to be excluded from a couple gauntlets, but the staff just set up a default condition, so they are often excluded redundantly or for no good reason.

Please read again what I wrote. An Inca player Civ is never allowed to play against a non-Inca player Civ in either HoF Gauntlets or HoF Challenges. Yes, an Inca player is allowed to compete against another Inca player in both these venues, but only when all other player Civs are excluded from that specific game. My previous statement did not exclude this relatively rare possibility.

Furthermore, everyone knows that the Inca Empire is exploitatively overpowered in all Ancient Era starts. Your opinion to the contrary doesn't really mean much. I'll bet you can't find any regular poster of the Strategy and Tips forum to agree with you. I even doubt you could find a regular HoF player that agreeds with your opinon either, aside from yourself.

Let us please give this thread a rest. We don't even know that the HoF staff would even consider a reversal their opinion on adding a Inca filter to the HoF tables.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[WastinTime]

Furthermore, everyone knows that the Inca Empire is exploitatively overpowered in all Ancient Era starts. Your opinion to the contrary..

Just to be clear, my opinion of the Inca is that they ARE overpowered in most cases, but I can't see how they are anything special on settler difficulty for example.

 

[Denniz]

Bottom line: Inca are valid for all Official HOF tables. Allowing a filter would create a situation where it would appear that there were separate Offical HOF Tables for non-Inca games. There are not. So no filter.

The filter exists in the ad-hoc. That will have to be enough.

 

[WastinTime]

Bottom line: Inca are valid for all Official HOF tables. Allowing a filter would create a situation where it would appear that there were separate Offical HOF Tables for non-Inca games. There are not. So no filter.

The filter exists in the ad-hoc. That will have to be enough.

Thx Denniz. I wasn't expecting to get filters (nor do I really want any,) but I thought this was a good discussion and I wanted to empathize with STW. I took your first no as a no. Sorry if you got the feeling I was pressing you to change your answer.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Bottom line: Inca are valid for all Official HOF tables. Allowing a filter would create a situation where it would appear that there were separate Offical HOF Tables for non-Inca games. There are not. So no filter.

The filter exists in the ad-hoc. That will have to be enough.

In truth, the Inca Civ should have been banned from the start.

What is wrong with having an Inca filter, if that is what most players want? Why does it matter that gives some players the impression that there is two groups of comparable Civs, the Inca and the non-Inca. Which is more meaningful, the current state of the HoF tables where Inca competes with non-Inca unfairly or the same plus non-Inca competes with Inca filtered out.

As I said before, the Inca filter is a Win - Win option that would revitalize the HoF, whereas the current HoF will stagnate under the pressure of the grossly over powered Quechua in Ancient Era starts.

The Inca filter is a reasonable compromise, in my opinion. What would change the HoF Staff's opinion about it?

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Please look at the player log of this game:

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?show=playerlog&dsply=0&entryID=24315

How can there be 5 different messages providing Wealth on t0? This game starts with a Settler and Quechua; they could conceivably each enter a Tribal Village. I suppose that act of settling could set off multiple Tribal Villages, but Tribal Villages should not be grouped that close together.

Can anyone explain how this is possible? If so, how can the game be balanced with so many Tribal Villages entered on t0?

Sun Tzu Wu