HOF Questions and Answers Thread

Please look at the player log of this game:

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?show=playerlog&dsply=0&entryID=24315

How can there be 5 different messages providing Wealth on t0? This game starts with a Settler and Quechua; they could conceivably each enter a Tribal Village. I suppose that act of settling could set off multiple Tribal Villages, but Tribal Villages should not be grouped that close together.

Can anyone explain how this is possible? If so, how can the game be balanced with so many Tribal Villages entered on t0?

Sun Tzu Wu


And also Cuzco was founded many times.

My solution (guess) to the problem: regenerating.
That is only one hut per specific generated map.

And it is nothing illegal in HoF. Why would you have to go to main menu and handpick everything again?


Edit:
To add to the discussion: If Inca games should be discriminated then Sushi games should be discriminated too. You know if people stopped playing score games with Inca, they'd turn to Rome, Egypt and Persia employing same strategy and you'd have the same situation with people asking for additional filters until we were allowed only to play Japan or HRE.

One can always filter stuff himself.
 
And also Cuzco was founded many times.

I have seen that before, but I've never seen Tribal Villages being entered multiple times to match that.

My solution (guess) to the problem: regenerating.
That is only one hut per specific generated map.

And it is nothing illegal in HoF. Why would you have to go to main menu and handpick everything again?

MapFinder is easier to use to than this manual regeneration.

I just never recalled seeing so many Tribal Village reports in t0 before. Still doesn't seem quite right. All my own games I've checked don't seem to have this, even ones where I entered a Tribal Village in t0 have just one report of doing so.

Edit:
To add to the discussion: If Inca games should be discriminated then Sushi games should be discriminated too. You know if people stopped playing score games with Inca, they'd turn to Rome, Egypt and Persia employing same strategy and you'd have the same situation with people asking for additional filters until we were allowed only to play Japan or HRE.

One can always filter stuff himself.

Inca is overpowered in the sense of being extremely unbalanced in game play; it is the only Civ which has a chance of capturing one to three cities by turn 10 at any game speed. Rome, Egypt and Persia also have powerful unique units, but they aren't so powerful that they destroy game balance; they require resources and the connection of Iron or Horse, before the units can be built.

The Quechua can capture Workers with impunity (no risk of counter-attack); it can even quite easily kill an Archer escort to capture a Worker, whereas the only unit all other Civs have in the early game for this purpose is the Warrior which is no match for the AI's Archers, either escorting or counter-attacking.

Inca is banned from HoF EQM, HoF Gauntlets and HoF Challenages [latter two can specify Inca, but Any (Civ) always means any Civ except Inca]. If Inca is too overpowered in these HoF events, isn't that equally true in the HoF tables where Inca is allowed?

Thus an Inca filter is reasonable, but I see no justification for filtering or banning Sid's Sushi or any other game element.

Filtering with the HoF Ad-Hoc Query is very time consuming and only displays a single slot at a time. It really isn't adequate for seeing the #1 non-Inca game in the entire table instantly.

Adding an Inca filter adds choice; the choice of using it or not; it doesn't take anything away, like an outright ban would.

I hope this helps clarify why Inca is too powerful for other player Civs to compete with.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
How can there be 5 different messages providing Wealth on t0?

Can anyone explain how this is possible? If so, how can the game be balanced with so many Tribal Villages entered on t0?

Sun Tzu Wu

That's just me manually regenerating. I settle and/or pop huts on t0. If I'm not happy (i.e. I didn't get a tech ;)), I regen and it creates those bogus messages. I didn't actually get all that gold in one game. (nor did I settle my capital multiple times.)
 
That's just me manually regenerating. I settle and/or pop huts on t0. If I'm not happy (i.e. I didn't get a tech ;)), I regen and it creates those bogus messages. I didn't actually get all that gold in one game. (nor did I settle my capital multiple times.)

I didn't realize that units can legally be moved before manually regenerating. I haven't used manual regeneration for starting games for years; Mapfinder seems to produce better starts.

Thanks for the explanation!

Perhaps, the HoF could filter out the bogus capital settling and bogus Tribal Village "events"? Which Tribal Village "event", if any, is the real (non-bogus) one? I'd guess the last one, but maybe its the first one. It would be nice know which one is real, since they have very different Wealth amounts.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Deleted
 
Perhaps, the HoF could filter out the bogus capital settling and bogus Tribal Village "events"? Which Tribal Village "event", if any, is the real (non-bogus) one? I'd guess the last one, but maybe its the first one. It would be nice know which one is real, since they have very different Wealth amounts.
Sun Tzu Wu

No filter is needed.

The last notification that the capitol has been founded is what the player used in the game. Assume any tribal village event after it is real for the game. Rarely, there will be a real tribal village event before the capitol is settled, but that would occur if the player is going for something other than a tech or needed to go through a hut to get to a settle site.

Or you could simply download the 4000 BC save and load it yourself! And when you do, you will see that he did in fact pop a hut for 90 gold prior to settling Cuzco.
 
No filter is needed.

The last notification that the capitol has been founded is what the player used in the game. Assume any tribal village event after it is real for the game. Rarely, there will be a real tribal village event before the capitol is settled, but that would occur if the player is going for something other than a tech or needed to go through a hut to get to a settle site.

Or you could simply download the 4000 BC save and load it yourself! And when you do, you will see that he did in fact pop a hut for 90 gold prior to settling Cuzco.

I've been playing HoF games for over 5 years, I was confused by t0 of the Player Log just yesterday (never saw duplicate Tribal Village events before) . I would expect that nearly all new HoF players would be confused by it (especially multiple foundings of the same Capital) as well.

If only the last of each duplicated item in t0 is the real one, it should be easy to filter by simple overwriting of each distinct item before displaying it. Alternatively, I suppose a header text line could be added above to clarify duplicated items in t0 of the Player Log. It's up to the HoF Staff on whether or not and if so, how they fix it.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
well from my position/view on Inca there is couple dangers/reasons why incas are regarded as overpowered by S&T subforum... I will just cite them and if anyone feels the need to explain things...well we can

1) quecha on monarch+
2) most universal trait combo being great on every map
3) +2 culture granary

I think the "biggest" issue I have with Inca is that they are just too universal. You have tons of other leaders that can be superb, but every of them has some drawbacks. Inca's are the most "balanced" for any kind of map you roll.

bad land (no good riverside) just WWE
good land abuse Fin.
boxed in? troll nearest AI with resourceless 15H unit
monuments? tech pottery and you have culture on building every city will build
 
If only the last of each duplicated item in t0 is the real one, it should be easy to filter by simple overwriting of each distinct item before displaying it.

It's not quite that simple. There isn't always a hut to pop on t0, so the last msg still might not apply to the actual game. However, the bug must be fixable some way if deemed necessary. It doesn't bother me to leave it.
 
We just reproduce what is in the game log. When you manually regenerate (or even use map finder) the game log doesn't erase itself. We won't be looking at changing the way this is displayed.

Thanks Ozbenno! I shall consider the issue closed too, though its still confusing to new and even some experienced players too.

On the Inca filter idea which the HoF staff has already twice rejected, I plan to voluntarily move the discussion to a new thread in the HoF forum with a non-binding poll. This will keep this thread open for other players HoF concerns. After that thread is open, I'm fine with the HoF staff moving some or all Inca-filter related posts to the new thread, at their option or however they deem fit.

If anyone has more to say about the HoF Inca filter proposal, please wait until the new thread is opened rather than post here.

Sincerely,

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Thanks Ozbenno! I shall consider the issue closed too, though its still confusing to new and even some experienced players too.

On the Inca filter idea which the HoF staff has already twice rejected, I plan to voluntarily move the discussion to a new thread in the HoF forum with a non-binding poll. This will keep this thread open for other players HoF concerns. After that thread is open, I'm fine with the HoF staff moving some or all Inca-filter related posts to the new thread, at their option or however they deem fit.

If anyone has more to say about the HoF Inca filter proposal, please wait until the new thread is opened rather than post here.

Sincerely,

Sun Tzu Wu

I hope you chose the polling option to show how people vote.

See here to see how I would vote:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=433375
 
You're not looking at the latest update (its looking at the previous update) there, refer here

My link above is now pointing to the current update. I probably didn't refresh the stale page and manually change the update date (I didn't even notice it was still set to Oct 10th).

Thanks for helping a :confused: Civilization IV Hall of Fame player.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
I've searched around on here and can't find the answer to this. Is there any benefit / drawback to submitting eligible games to the HoF even when they don't qualify for the Top 10 in a category?

Thanks!

There is no drawback. There can be benefit if you are working towards QM/EQM or playing a gauntlet.
 
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