Homophobia in Russia

Here is what I found while yahooing "Eastern Orthodox +Homosexuality". The Russian Orthodox Church also falls under the umbrella of Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
Here is what I found in "Orthodox Statement on Homosexuality"

Orthodox Statement on Homosexuality said:
The position of the Orthodox Church toward homosexuality has been expressed by synodical canons and Patristic pronouncements beginning with the very first centuries of Orthodox ecclesiastical life.

Thus, the Orthodox Church condemns unreservedly all expressions of personal sexual experience which prove contrary to the definite and unalterable function ascribed to sex by God's ordinance and expressed in man's experience as a law of nature.

Thus the function of the sexual organs of a man and a woman and their bio-chemical generating forces in glands and glandular secretions are ordained by nature to serve one particular purpose, the procreation of the human kind.

However, the human sexual apparatus appears to have been designed not only as the medium by which the necessary physical contact for the purpose of sex is affected, but as the generator as well and the center of a highly complex system of feelings which all together are known by the name eros, love between husband and wife.

Therefore, any and all uses of the human sex organs for purposes other than those ordained by creation, runs contrary to the nature of things as decreed by God and produces the following wrongs:

a. They violate God's ordinance regarding both the procreation of man and his emotional life generated by his instinctive attraction to the opposite sex not only for procreating but for advancing the personalities of a man and a woman to a state of completion within the association of the Sacrament of Marriage. For all this, homosexuality is an insult to God, and since it attempts to alter the laws regulating creation it is a blasphemy.

b. Homosexuality interferes with the normal development of societal patterns and as such it proves detrimental to all. These endangered patterns include personal values regarding sex which people normally take to be a vital part of their existence and a valuable asset to their living a normal life, esteemed by others.

c. The homosexual degrades his own sex and thus denies to himself the self-respect that is generated from the feeling that one is in line with God's creation.

Homosexuality appears to be of two kinds: physico-genetic and habitual. Physico-genetic homosexuality is of physical origin due to secretory abnormalities that may produce organic changes. This type of homosexuality is rather rare and is treated as any other medical disorder.

Habitual homosexuality may have more than one cause. All, however, point out to a moral failure at some stage of the individual's development, or to the animate environment from which the homosexual originated.

Thus, although homosexuality followed as a way of life by the sufferer, may be subject to psychopathological investigation and treatment, the origin of it, in all but the few physico-genetic cases mentioned above, brings with it a moral failure. It is because of the realization of this that homosexuality has been described from ancient times as a moral stigma.

Thus, the Orthodox Church cannot subscribe to the demand that homosexuals be recognized by society and its agencies as legal spouses and as deserving the same respect as men and women enjoy in the state of wedlock.

Society and its values, religious and societal, have legitimate claims over the behavior of its members, especially in so vital a function as the sexual one on which not only the survival but its quality as well depend. No one has the right to do whatever he wishes with his body and still claim recognition and respect on the part of society.

The Orthodox Church believes that homosexuality should be treated by society as an immoral and dangerous perversion and by religion as a sinful failure. In both cases, correction is called for. Homosexuals should be accorded the confidential medical and psychiatric facilities by which they can be helped to restore themselves to a self-respecting sexual identity that belongs to them by God's ordinance.

In full confidentiality, the Orthodox Church cares and provides pastorally for homosexuals in the belief that no sinner who has failed himself and God should be allowed to deteriorate morally and spiritually.

Psychiatric restoration, without religious direction and reconciliation with God, is bound to prove short lived.

A healthy society and various religions do not recognize perversions. Rather, they work to restore the homosexual to the status of a self-esteemed individual and thus to a valued instrument of their own survival and wellbeing under God.

Edit: I cannot comment nor defend the Eastern Orthodox possition on homoseuxals since I am not an Orthodox Christian. ;)
 
Lambert Simnel said:
Oh, lord. I did post about it here when I got back, but probably only Ram read it. ;)

Basically I was visiting Moscow in February on a business trip and got harassed by the police in Red Square at midnight - they took my passport and made me stand outside the Kremlin for an hour or two. I think they thought I was cottaging* outside Lenin's Tomb, but, what with their English, and my Russian, I never found out. All in all, they were probably just looking for a bribe, but I was very reluctant to make the first move on that front when I hadn't actually done anything wrong.

The levels of intolerance suggested by some of our Russian posters here reinforce my impression of this as being a socially backward nation.

* i.e. soliciting for gay sex. An interpretation of events offered by one of our auditors, and much better than the truth. :)
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Looool... You think that they thought you was cottaging, but you didn't find it out! So how can you know what they thought?
I'm sure that Lenin's tomb doesn't play any role here. If you think all russians are communists, it;s a big mistake.
 
Fox Mccloud said:
Russia's economy is growing very fast, though, at about 6.5% a year, if I recall correctly. It has more potential then most of those countries. Give it time.
According to World Bank (am I call it right?) specialists, russian economy will be bigger thann english or french in 20 years.
 
Favorius said:
What I have seen in all 6 pages of discussion is different views of different cultures in conflict. Russian perceptions are a lot different different that Western perceptions. I think a Russian actually will support basic human and civil rights but to an extent. They are not ready to grant gay rights. This is similar with here. Our society is not ready for such a commitment too, whether they do not see homosexiality as a normal phenomenon due to their religious beliefs or cultural background.
I support homosexuality but not because of human rights stuff: it is simple maths, if we allow gays to have their freedom, then competiton for girls will be easier because number of real man will decline. Horray! (just kidding:P)
Are you from Turkey? You're pretty right.
That's why Russian foreign policy is always oriented to the East (China, India, Iran), because societies in RF and there are similar. Though Russia is half-eastern and half-western, so it's more western-democratical than arab countries, India or China.
I should say that Turkey is the most western-democraticized country in muslim world.
 
AndyTerry said:
Not in Russia. Teachers - yes (my friend had one in his school), politicians - yes, singers - of course. But priests and cops - no. In Russia - no.

:lol:

Well, don't be so sure. ;)
 
AndyTerry said:
Have you seen any? :) I can be wrong, og course.

Yes, you are wrong. But that's ok. It is normal for russians to invent wrong stereotype and believe it is truth. You ask me have I seen any. The truth is: many gays cannot be identified they are gays by their looks. Especially in "gay-not-so-tolerant" Russia. Russian stereotype of gay is girly looking and behaving man. But it is not so in many cases.

(The same goes about jews. Russian stereotype is big-nosed-curly-haired fellow. I look like sweedish and my friends were VERY surprised when I told them I leave to Israel;))
 
I believe there are quite many gays working in the private security sector in Russia and the same goes to police and military too.

But of course as foreign and not russian I'm just guessing.

And Leha is right, you cannot possible say about many people based only about their looks and behaviour whether they are homosexuals or not, and same goes to other stereotypes.

I'm sure many people would be surprised when finding out others people orientation in many subjects.
 
Leha said:
Yes, you are wrong. But that's ok. It is normal for russians to invent wrong stereotype and believe it is truth. You ask me have I seen any. The truth is: many gays cannot be identified they are gays by their looks. Especially in "gay-not-so-tolerant" Russia. Russian stereotype of gay is girly looking and behaving man. But it is not so in many cases.

(The same goes about jews. Russian stereotype is big-nosed-curly-haired fellow. I look like sweedish and my friends were VERY surprised when I told them I leave to Israel;))
There are a lot of stereotypes in every country, in America too (look at my avatar). Don't know anything about Israel.

Русский язык еще не забыл? :)

Moderator Action: CFC is a strictly English language forum. If you are going to use non-English, please provide a translation. Rik
 
AndyTerry said:
There are a lot of stereotypes in every country, in America too (look at my avatar). Don't know anything about Israel.

Русский язык еще не забыл? :)

Po russki govorju prekrasno i ochen' ego ljublju (russkij jazik). :) No Moderatory sdes' etogo ne pozvoljajut. Tak chto ostavim etu zateju. :)

Moderator Action: CFC is a strictly English language forum. If you are going to use non-English, please provide a translation. Rik

Of course every country has it's stereotypes. There's no questioning about that.

BTW: In Israel Defence Forces there is general-gay. He is very brave man. And in no way girly looking.:) . And he doesn't make his homosexuality secret. Because it's OK here.
 
Like I said, give Russia a hundred years.
It's not had tme to politically, and socially evolve, so there has been no great leap forward since 1917, at least.
 
In 100 years, Russia will be what it's been for the past 1000 years. A lawless mess overseen by an authoritarian crackpot.
 
silver 2039 said:
I judge by current events and history.
Lol... And where from do you know about events and history? From british papers I guess? :lol:

Pontiuth Pilate
Lol again... All of you should trust american papers less... Believe me, I read Financial Times, Washington Post and some european papers regularly in Internet. And things that they write about Russia are often f...ing nonsense.
 
:lol:
Do you trust the russian newspapers more then?

People might know about your country even if they don't live there themselves.
But you seem to think you know about other countries so much you can tell that nobody in other countries know about your country.
Which is kinda sad really.

Some of us do know, and what we see aren't necessarily nice things.
But it isn't our job to start to bash or judge Russia but we all have our opinions, which we are allowed to offer.
That is called free speech and democracy, you know.
 
AndyTerry said:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Looool... You think that they thought you was cottaging, but you didn't find it out! So how can you know what they thought?
I'm sure that Lenin's tomb doesn't play any role here. If you think all russians are communists, it;s a big mistake.

This was an incident from my personal life which I recounted to Rik because he asked. You have absolutely no basis for suggesting whether Lenin's Tomb was significant or not, because you weren't there.

Similarly, tell me where I suggested "all russians are comunists". I didn't, because I don't believe that, and it's also completely irrelevant to what I was posting.

Your level of willful self-delusion in this thread is staggering, but I'll leave it to others to point out why you might not, for example, be aware of gays in the Russian police. For my part, if you're going to comment on my personal experiences, limit yourself to what you actually know about it, eh ?
 
Lambert Simnel said:
This was an incident from my personal life which I recounted to Rik because he asked. You have absolutely no basis for suggesting whether Lenin's Tomb was significant or not, because you weren't there.

Similarly, tell me where I suggested "all russians are comunists". I didn't, because I don't believe that, and it's also completely irrelevant to what I was posting.

Your level of willful self-delusion in this thread is staggering, but I'll leave it to others to point out why you might not, for example, be aware of gays in the Russian police. For my part, if you're going to comment on my personal experiences, limit yourself to what you actually know about it, eh ?
:goodjob:
.
 
Lambert Simnel said:
This was an incident from my personal life which I recounted to Rik because he asked. You have absolutely no basis for suggesting whether Lenin's Tomb was significant or not, because you weren't there.

Similarly, tell me where I suggested "all russians are comunists". I didn't, because I don't believe that, and it's also completely irrelevant to what I was posting.

Your level of willful self-delusion in this thread is staggering, but I'll leave it to others to point out why you might not, for example, be aware of gays in the Russian police. For my part, if you're going to comment on my personal experiences, limit yourself to what you actually know about it, eh ?
In any case, the Russian (especially the Moscow) Militia are notoriously corrupt.
 
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