Homophobia in Russia
- Thread starter ComradeDavo
- Start date
AndyTerry said:
Unlikely there wouldn't be,they get everywhere, the military the governement there insidiuous and once they're in a population there's no shifting them
Garric your awfully defensive you know,this is not a bash the US thread you don't need to start off under the weight of past history
Insane_Panda
Deity
So, when Hitler was killing the jews, he did it because "you cannot export western democracy and try to somehow apply it to German politics"?.
The repression of a people is not a political issue. It would be if Russia denied certain rights to gays (like many nations do). But when police start beating people based on whom they love, well, then thats a different cup of tea altogether, and something needs to be done. This is the 21st century. You cannot simply use the excuse "you don't understand us" to justify repressive policies.
The repression of a people is not a political issue. It would be if Russia denied certain rights to gays (like many nations do). But when police start beating people based on whom they love, well, then thats a different cup of tea altogether, and something needs to be done. This is the 21st century. You cannot simply use the excuse "you don't understand us" to justify repressive policies.
AndyTerry
Russian Bear
Умом Россию не понять,
Аршином общим не измерить...
Translate:
Russia can't be understood by intelligence
And can't be measured with common standards
Words of famous Russian poet
However, you are being hipocritical by calling me intolerant. A rather lofty tactic used by liberals:C~G said:
Calling someone who doesn't support AA a racist.
Someone who doesn't support abortion a sexist.
Someone who supports secure borders a racist.
Someone who doesn't support gay legislation intolerant.
You are making my ideals sound offensive and inconsequential, as they come from a simple uneducated mind.
Wow your really defensive, what he meant was because we are not Russian does not mean we cannot offer an opinion of what we think justice or moral behaviour is, this is a forum, no country is exempt from the great eye of rationalisation, you can't simply use the "you do not understand card" to make us understand, you could however explain the reason why Russia is homophobic or isn't or whatever, it seems it is because otherwise you wouldn't be so defensive about its actions.
Mind you I'm hardly surprised Stalin and Hitler were birds of a feather just on different sides of the political spectrum: I'd say the Spanish inquisition were also similar to Russia
Mind you I'm hardly surprised Stalin and Hitler were birds of a feather just on different sides of the political spectrum: I'd say the Spanish inquisition were also similar to Russia
AndyTerry
Russian Bear
OK, Russia is independent country and nobody can tell it what to do.
AndyTerry
Russian Bear
To speak the truth, Russia is gomophobic, because developed in spiritual way, and the West (how we call it: Europe & America) developed in material way. It's my answer.
Although imo all churches (protestant, catholic, orthodox, muslim etc) are damaging for societies and backward institutes full of thieves/madmen/lowly educated people, it has to be said that the orthodox church is still living in the medieval era.Moderator Action: Warned for trolling. You may disagree with their existence, but do not attack the people belonging to organized religions. - The Yankee
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
This probably has to do with religion playing a part in maintaining ethnic identity in most orthodox nations, whereas in Russia religion was another major difference from the west.
I hope that in the future the orthodox church will be as insignificant as protestant churches are. However a similar decline in the catholic church would help that, and sadly i do not see that happening soon...
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
This probably has to do with religion playing a part in maintaining ethnic identity in most orthodox nations, whereas in Russia religion was another major difference from the west.
I hope that in the future the orthodox church will be as insignificant as protestant churches are. However a similar decline in the catholic church would help that, and sadly i do not see that happening soon...
Leha
ooseepoosee
AndyTerry said:
That sums things up, eh?
I'm former russian too. But i think it is wrong way to reply to criticism, sorry.
If you were indeed from Russia, your opinion may have some relevance, however, it does not. This is just like Canadians or Europeans disliking George W. Bush because it's popular/supported by CA or EU politicians, their opinion hold no weight because they do not live here or understand American politics or what Bush actually does. I do not mean this as an attack in any way, but I doubt you have any understanding of Russian politics or what goes on around here, what kind of country it is, and why this is going on. I'm not trying to cut your opinion out, I just can not accept it. This thread doesn't need to exist, there are few people who are actually from Russia (this being English forums an all) to debate this issue.Sidhe said:Wow your really defensive, what he meant was because we are not Russian does not mean we cannot offer an opinion of what we think justice or moral behaviour is, this is a forum, no country is exempt from the great eye of rationalisation, you can't simply use the "you do not understand card" to make us understand, you could however explain the reason why Russia is homophobic or isn't or whatever, it seems it is because otherwise you wouldn't be so defensive about its actions.
Mind you I'm hardly surprised Stalin and Hitler were birds of a feather just on different sides of the political spectrum: I'd say the Spanish inquisition were also similar to Russia
AndyTerry said:
True, but we can ask you to justify why it's necessary or why you think it happened, insight might mean we could understand it's actions in a Russian context and not judge them, atm we have no reason to do this.
@ Garric in that case stop saying we don't understand and explain it? Otherwise sorry but you have no case. And countries judge other countries all the time sadly it's usually from a lack of understanding, when a country turns round and says FO you dont't understand you are not Russian then that sort of isolationism is likely to foster intolerance on both sides.
Inform us please or we will be left to make judgements based on only one side, maybe later you could let us know the Russian slant on this, I asked and Andy said he might see something, would be nice.
C~G
Untouchable
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 4,146
Relax, it is just a word.garric said:
Find a new word then to describe person and nation who is against gay legislation. But how I'm hypocritical? I just tried to follow your logic.
No, I'm not, just wanted to know why you felt offended.garric said:
It's clear now.
Are you trying to make my ideals sound offensive by saying I'm liberal?
Right on the spot.AndyTerry said:
But Russia is independent but all nations nowadays are under the microscope so we all share the same passion to give our views about other nations' business even when they don't want it. It's up to them whether they listen or learn to listen during the process. We all might have something to learn.
"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest."
- Winston Churchill
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
AndyTerry said:
You really don't think that there are any gay cops in Russia?
What I like in most of such discussions is the very term "homophobia". It's so simplistic that I would very much like to protest against it's use .
On topic now. Which is worse: the fact that the Russian authorities banned the rally, or the fact that there was danger of triggering violence (i.e. that some people cannot accept other people's rights)?
Of course, the top place is occupied by that mayor who decided what is best for his people according to his beliefs. Has anyone seen Chocolat?
.On topic now. Which is worse: the fact that the Russian authorities banned the rally, or the fact that there was danger of triggering violence (i.e. that some people cannot accept other people's rights)?
Of course, the top place is occupied by that mayor who decided what is best for his people according to his beliefs. Has anyone seen Chocolat?
AndyTerry
Russian Bear
varwnos
In Russia only 56% people are orthodox; 31% are atheists; 5% are muslims; 3% are catholics and protestants; 2% are buddhists. 3% for other religions.
In Russia only 56% people are orthodox; 31% are atheists; 5% are muslims; 3% are catholics and protestants; 2% are buddhists. 3% for other religions.
Leha
ooseepoosee
I'm from Russia, so it looks like I'm qualified to express my opinion here. Am I?
OK, I'll put it this way. It amases me how russians like to look at the western world from their perspective of spirituality. They do sometimes stupidest things and say noone can understand them because of their SPIRITUALITY!
BINGO!
Materialistic western burgois can't criticise Russia! No way! They are so unspiritual!
OK, I'll put it this way. It amases me how russians like to look at the western world from their perspective of spirituality. They do sometimes stupidest things and say noone can understand them because of their SPIRITUALITY!
BINGO!
Materialistic western burgois can't criticise Russia! No way! They are so unspiritual!
How do you count how many are atheists? 
Unless you have some sort of religious ID card, which wouldnt be a very good idea
ps: about russian 'spirituality':
Unless you are talking about some mixed logic and epileptic crisis, as that in Dostoevsky's work (who was, as is known, an epileptic), i do not quite see how that supposed 'spirituality' is anything different than various spiritualities which are popular in parts of the western world. Even cults like scientology are supposed to be spiritual.
Spirituality imo is little more than unscientific personal beliefs which are used so as to explain psychological phenomena which are being studied in far more serious ways in Psychology/Psychoanalysis. To be stuck in some idea that a deity is speaking to you or a deity is having effect in your life is a very old idea in Europe (and everywhere else) but scientifically it is woth very little by itself.
ps: various cultures have the belief that they are spiritual. It is very common in arab nations as well; for them the evil west is materialistic, but in reality one can be fond of art, philosophy, self-introspection, and not be spiritual in such a way, since it is a false road to follow imo
Unless you have some sort of religious ID card, which wouldnt be a very good idea
ps: about russian 'spirituality':
Unless you are talking about some mixed logic and epileptic crisis, as that in Dostoevsky's work (who was, as is known, an epileptic), i do not quite see how that supposed 'spirituality' is anything different than various spiritualities which are popular in parts of the western world. Even cults like scientology are supposed to be spiritual.
Spirituality imo is little more than unscientific personal beliefs which are used so as to explain psychological phenomena which are being studied in far more serious ways in Psychology/Psychoanalysis. To be stuck in some idea that a deity is speaking to you or a deity is having effect in your life is a very old idea in Europe (and everywhere else) but scientifically it is woth very little by itself.
ps: various cultures have the belief that they are spiritual. It is very common in arab nations as well; for them the evil west is materialistic, but in reality one can be fond of art, philosophy, self-introspection, and not be spiritual in such a way, since it is a false road to follow imo
Hamlet
Manic Depressive
garric said:
Morality does not stop when it reaches the border; I would have thought that an apparent Bush supporter would be more than willing to subscribe to that.
With regards to the story itself, nobody should be in the least bit surprised. Russia has always been enamoured on authoritarianism and I don't see that changing particularly swiftly. Perhaps in fifty years it might be somewhere on par with European norms, but until then, gays, national and denominational minorities and the like are going to get the **** end of the stick.
