House of the Dragon (Season 1 of GoT-related series discussion)

Kyriakos

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Some shows/movies have scouting (well, barely anyway), but iirc GoT didn't even in the first seasons. I do recall a couple of Northern scouts, but they probably didn't do anything (I mean, you even had a battle believing the other side had five times its size, not to mention in latter reasons an entire navy sailing in one straight line and being surprised by an entire other navy :D )
Even 300 had scouts! (they provided the mortar for a spartan wall)
 

AdrienIer

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Robb wins most of his battles thanks to his scouting. Right around his father's death he sends his foot soldiers with Roose Bolton to fight Tywin's army while he goes with his cavalry to take Jaime by surprise and capture him. The plan being to exchange Jaime for his father and sisters.
Then he uses the mobility of his army (mostly cavalry now, with Roose still holding the other side of the trident with the foot soldiers) and the quality of his scouting to win most of his battles and gain military advantages until the red wedding.
 

aelf

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Nothing "happened" really... they went on the game show, everyone died except the star and main characters, then they win... and every episode was essentially the same formula. I mean it was all very entertaining, with excellent visuals and decent acting, but they pretty much stuck to the formula.
That I remember, yes.

Robb wins most of his battles thanks to his scouting. Right around his father's death he sends his foot soldiers with Roose Bolton to fight Tywin's army while he goes with his cavalry to take Jaime by surprise and capture him. The plan being to exchange Jaime for his father and sisters.
Then he uses the mobility of his army (mostly cavalry now, with Roose still holding the other side of the trident with the foot soldiers) and the quality of his scouting to win most of his battles and gain military advantages until the red wedding.
I'm guessing this is in the books? Don't recall such details from the TV show.
 

AdrienIer

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Probably yes. The show isn't very precise on how Robb wins his battles. But I think scouts are mentioned.
 

Birdjaguar

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The books have so much more detail about what happens and why. The real story is in the books and not the show. The show is just the sensational highlights and for the lightweights unwilling to immerse themselves in Westros.
 

MagisterCultuum

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^I think it could have been a highlight ONLY if Jon Snow died when he was tricked and the cavalry came crashing on him.
Then again he got saved, because his own cavalry also came crashing on him at the same time :lol:
That could have worked, if as with Beric Dondarrion the Lord of Light kept bringing him back to life over and over again as he keeps dying in increasingly stupid ways.


I agree that the Sandsnakes seemed somewhat pointless, except that they were necessary to develop/highlight Ellaria Sand's character. In any case I didn't think they were enough of an issue to diminish season 5 overall.

It was the same for me BTW. I started watching the show during season 3. I binged seasons 1 and 2 and then started watching every week with season 3.
The problem is that they develop/highlight how Ellaria Sand's character is the exact opposite as it is in the books. Book Ellaria has seen too much bloodshed and wants to do whatever is needed to make peace. She recognizes that it was Oberyn's irrational obsession with revenge that led to his death, and believes that no good could come from trying to avenge him. She is content that the death of Gregor from Oberyn's poisoned spear and the death of Tywin from Tyrion's crossbow are plenty. Her focus is on trying to stop the Sand Snakes from ruining their lives and bringing more danger to Dorn in a foolish attempt at gaining vengeance.



The Dornish plot really should have focused on Prince Doran's daughter Arianne and her plot to proclaim Myrcella as the Queen. That would force Cersei into a difficult position, where she must either choose to let Dorne become a free and independent nation or else condemn one of her two remaining children to die a traitor's death.

Dorne was never conquered by the Targaryens. It only joined the rest of the Seven Kingdoms through a treaty and a double marriage alliance. The treaty guaranteed that the Dornish could forever continue to follow the law of the Rhoynar, including the practice of inheritance through strict primogeniture without any preference for males over females.

A strong case could be argued that this means that even if the rest of Westeros considers Tommen to be the heir of King Joffrey, that Rhoynish law and that treaty require the Dornish to consider his elder sister Myrcella to be his heir and the rightful queen over Tommen. The Targaryens had inheritance crises before that treaty where they chose a male over an older female potential heir, but it so happens that after that treaty there was never a case to test that theory as there have been no more female potential heirs with younger brothers all the way down to the supposed children of Robert.

If Cersei decides to side with Tommen, then she must sign Myrcella's death warrant. There would probably be a major war as the Dornish try to press Myrcella's claim and depose Tommen, but no matter who wins one of Cerse's children dies.

If Cersei decides to let Myrcella be the Queen on the Iron Throne, then she is essentially handing over the entire realm to be ruled by House Martell, as Myrcella is an impressionable young girl who is easily manipulated by her consort Trystane Nymeros Martell, the youngest son of Prince Doran. Tyrstane would be sure to have Tommen executed and his head on a spike. Many lords in other regions would likely contest this ruling and rise up in rebellion against Queen Myrcella, perhaps ending in her death too.

If Cersei decides that Rhoynish law only applies in Dorne and that Myrcella may rule there while Tommen keeps the Iron Throne, then the realm is broken and Dorne is free without a fight.


Prince Doran put an end to Arianne's plot because he is a fierce Targaryen loyalist, who intends to see the Lannisters destroyed but knows he does not have the strength to win a war without significant reinforcements from Essos. He signed a secret treaty after Robert's Rebellion in which he betrothed Arianne to Prince Viserys Targaryen, and after his death sends his son Quentyn Martell to Slavers' Bay to try to marry Denaerys and bring her armies and dragons back to Westeros to press her claim. Before he can hear news that Quentyn was rejected and died trying to steal a dragon, he gets news of "Aegon VI" or "Young Griff," another Targaryen Pretender who claims to be the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Elia Martell, who was believed to have been murdered by Gregor Clegane but claimed to have been saved in a baby swap by Varys. Doran sends Arianne to investigate, and to marry this Aegon if she believes that his claims are true and if she thinks he has the strength needed to reconquer the continent.

He also sends a Sand Snake to take up Oberyn's seat on the Small Council and another disguised as a Septon to infiltrate the High Sparrow's inner circle and guide The Faith to aid their plots against the Lannisters.
 
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Kyriakos

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That could have worked, if as with Beric Dondarrion the Lord of Light kept bringing him back to life over and over again as he keeps dying in increasingly stupid ways.
I actually, while watching the scene, expecting Jon to be run over and killed by the Bolton cavalry, thought that the show writers managed to produce a memorable moment so late in the series and was happy :D
Then, of course, the ridiculous survival of Jon Snow followed.

If he had died, he wouldn't (I guess) be brought back again, since Melisandre was away.
 

RobAnybody

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The books have so much more detail about what happens and why. The real story is in the books and not the show. The show is just the sensational highlights and for the lightweights unwilling to immerse themselves in Westros.
...most in the thread haven't read those books and they don't have reason to view themselves as lightweights for not following... popular fantasy :p
I read the the original GoT books before the show even started (wow, I went total hipster there, *ahem, brushes shoulders off; adjusts fedora*) & then eventually eagerly read "A Dance With Dragons" which was released to coincide with Season 1 of the HBO show "Game of Thrones" which I recommended ahead of time to anyone who would listen. That was 15 years after I'd picked up the original A Game of Thrones book & read that (& loved it). Then I waited... & waited... after I'd already waited 6 years after the release of A Feast For Crows, which I'd already waited for 5 years after A Crown Of Swords.

Martin had... lost my trust at that point, to put it mildly. I wasn't about to read some prequel series at that point. So, while I appreciate the perspective of "hey, go read the books"... personally, I'm like "nah, it's clearly a waste of time". After Book 1 of ASoIaF, he took 2 years, then 2 years, then 5 years, then 6 years, then... infinity years. I'm watching the current show & enjoying it (though less as time goes on). but Martin's track record means I'll never accept "go read the books" at this point. Just my (hipster - heh) perspective though.
 

Birdjaguar

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For some the pleasures of reading are trumped by the immediacy and canned images of video. Yes, waiting years for "the next book" is terrible and often requires re-reading the last book. GRRM has not changed his tune as is evident by the Winds of Winter still being AWOL.
 

RobAnybody

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I must admit I honestly did not anticipate you going legit hipster-response after my faux hipster-response post.
 

Birdjaguar

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I must admit I honestly did not anticipate you going legit hipster-response after my faux hipster-response post.
:lol: Legit hipsters had their start in the 1940s and 50s. Current hipsters are likely 30 years my junior.
 

Kyriakos

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On the episode:

Spoiler :
nobles tend to die rather easily, even by lowborns, and no one minds. I suppose their houses don't mind either or are small; it's what gets you a seat in the small council, being small :)
On another note, makes "sense" the Strong guy can force the queen to partly strip, it's not like medieval torture would make him speak as it's well known that simply being a sadist means you yourself feel no pain.
On the positives: the coronation scene had grandiose elements +1
Then again, an old woman can get to a dragon, since no one apparently thought to guard it: -666


If money could buy decent writing. Fwiw, I really doubt it was as poor in Martin's original telling of it :D
 
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RobAnybody

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I wasn't a fan of the whole...
"That place is heavily guarded, & the first place they'll think to look for you - you'll never get in!"
"But, wait... what if I simply do it offscreen?"
"Brilliant!"
...plot.
 

aelf

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I wasn't a fan of the whole...
"That place is heavily guarded, & the first place they'll think to look for you - you'll never get in!"
"But, wait... what if I simply do it offscreen?"
"Brilliant!"
...plot.
I dunno, there was a huge crowd and everyone seemed busy handling it.

I thought they did some nice lampshading by stating that the royals rule by the consent of the people. Kept thinking that crowd would have overwhelmed the small contingent if it was so inclined. Another possibility is she bribed the guards. It was clear loyalties were divided.
 

lymond

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My assumption is that she simply was going another route - possibly secret from most - to the dragon lair and then simply went UP.....you know...cause Dragon
 

Kyriakos

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My assumption is that she simply was going another route - possibly secret from most - to the dragon lair and then simply went UP.....you know...cause Dragon
It'd have to be the "leaning against the wall, a secret passage appears" kind of other route, to overrule the existence of guards in the area next to the main hall of the building ^_^
Or she might have killed all the guards, ala Daemon defeating 1000 soldiers.
 

Kyriakos

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This is the births and special effects show.
Also
Spoiler :
someone texted Daemon with the news of a dragon killed half a continent away.
Wouldn't put it past them to reveal Daemon was there and picked up the boy in mid-air, so that this becomes spiderman
 
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