How about a Deity SG for a newbie or 2?

Preturn : We're out of war, let's build Muskets in 2 core cities and build infrastructure everywhere so that we can get a "full-on" Golden Age.
Veto Forest chopping in Uskudar (we need prod, not pop!), rush Library in Ravenna and Brundisium, Iznik changed from Musketman to Acqueduct.
Antalya changed to Bank (Unis are still not very much needed we are still way off the pace...too much corruption). Change some temples to granaries,
We need to get corruption down in East region : priority to Courthouses. Byzantium switched to Library to avoid flips.

IBT : Renew Fur deal with Shaka, Ravenna on Courthouse. Brundisium on Courthouse. Ankara builds courthouse-> acqueduct, Salonika bulds worker and goes for Temple (unhappy people ther).

1- 570ad : Change some terrain from "irrigation" to "mine" where we hit the limit.
2- 580ad : Riza is built just next to ex-Jerusalem.
ibt: Uskudar builds Uni->bank
3- 590ad : Palmyra worker-> library.
Ok I could buy Physics but really expensive and ToG and Magnetism are probably unafffordable, will wait on those.
Palace extension
4- 600ad : zzz
5- 610ad : Treasure is good, I do a round of rushes :
-acqueduct in Denizli : 240g
-courthouse in Mugla : 220g
-acqueduct in Iznik : 88g
IBT : 2nd palace extension.
6- 620ad : again just moving troops around, preparing for the big jump.
IBT : Mao wants MPP ! Welcome to Nationalism. How much can he pay ? nuttin ? faggad it !
7-630ad : Our Incense deal finishes with Mao, I take the opportunity to get Mil trad from him, this saves us
646g compared to any other deal on the table ! It's too good a deal. Our ROP ends in 9 turns and we should not
go on with it. So Mil Trad for Incense, WM + 55gpt.
8- 640ad : more moving around and getting ready...
IBT : Zulus build Newton, switch Konya to barracks (might need it)
9- 650ad : Rushing buildings
-lugdunum granary : 132g.
-Ravenna courthouse : 288g
-Ankarra Acqueduct : 336g
IBT : loads of rax, granaries, banks, etc, get built, this isall in preparation for our GA, to get the most out of it.

10- 660ad : nothing special, Sinop is producing too much food : move all west workers there to build mines as it will hit pop 12 in 2 turns.

We make now 237gpt so that leaves door open to acquire techs, but the problem is China is so cheap compared to the others it would be "dishonourable" to buy
all expensive techs and then declaring vs her (or getting her to declare vs us.)

I would personally build up and wipe the Romans first , they are ON THE LIST remember ?
We could take out all of their territory, do a Palace jump with a Great Leader
and then build up to take care of the chinese with tanks.
This would give us a huge territory and allow for Spaceship easy, maybe even Diplo.
We should definitely use that great Isthmus to BLOCK the Chinese, contain them and get control of our whole continent, wiping out the Germans and Romans.
And those few Chinese cities on our side of the isthmus.
Also in a war vs China we could not get any help from Zulu or Japan as they are isolated on their continent.
Any other choice does not make sense to me right now.
 
Preturn - AI is in the industrial ages

Trade Incense, wine, 23 gpt, WM and 15 gold for Physics. from Japan.
Trade 157 gpt to China for ToG
Everyone already has Nat'l. China grabbed communism. They are IN communism
Change Lugdunum to courthouse. It's on a river and won't need walls.
Riza changed to Library
MM Sinop to get a bank in 10 turns
Some rifles changed to Sapahi
enter

IT: Izmit builds bank. up 12 gpt. Set to Sapahi. Konya finishes barracks set to Sapahi.
670AD (01) - Set up embassy with Japan.
IT: Japan and Rome sign peace treaty. Bingol builds courthouse.
680AD (02) - zzz
IT: Germany demands Chemistry... Oooh I'm shakin. I call his bluff. That's alright, I'll grab those 2 cities soon.
690AD (03) - zzz
IT: Aydin builds bank. 100gpt. China takes Cumae
700AD (04) - Order settler from Izmit. We should be able to grab some more luxuries.
710AD (05)
IT: China takes antium
720AD (06) - Tech leaders have Steam
IT: Japan declares war on Japan! China wants to end RoP. New Hamburg flips to us!
730AD (07) - Gonna attack germany to grab two upcoming core cities.
IT: Uskudar builds bank. Now up to 119gpt. Antayla builds harbor.
740AD (08) - Declare war on Germany. Vet knight loses to regular spear. 2nd wins and 3rd retreats. Elite takes out wounded and New Leipzig is ours
IT: Rome and China sign peace
750AD (09) - Lets get this GA started off. Go from 120gpt to 325!
IT: Rome wants to extend peace, no.
760AD (10) - Trade 31gpt and 100 gold for spices

I've got a settler heading up to claim the dyes. We are technically at war with Rome so we should start taking their core cities. We have 9 knights which can be upgraded and only 5 sapahi. Istanbul can build Sapahi every 3 turns. Would be 2 if we had rails. If we were to research at a deficit of 76gpt we could get steam in 9 turns and still have 500gold left. In 5 turns we will have 4 more core cities with universities which will give us a lot of science for us to continue to do our own research. With China in Communism this game is ours. In 7 turns we will add 55gpt and in 10 turns we will add 154gpt. I say after one of those Universities is done we start a Palace prebuild for ToE.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CF1760AD.SAV
 
ToE definitely the way to finally get the edge on Tech vs the AI !
Let's get a prebuild started.
 
China is the top civ and they are in Communism. I doubt they will switch back to democracy and with communism they will probably be looking for a fight. They are at war with Japan but that seems like war on paper.

Once we have most of our infrastructure built we should maybe mobilize. China has a lot of troops I'm sure. We have 14.
 
China is the top civ and they are in Communism
Click to expand...

that's precisely the reason we should not go after them...we should be careful not to bite something to big for our mouth, as we say here.:)
 
760 (0) My inherited defense is apalling. We have major cities defended by pikes, muskets, and even warriors! Istanbul is defended by a spearman. This has to change pronto. MM Bursa to grow. A core city should not be sitting at size 5.

IT- Shaka cannot accept 3gpt and Incense for Furs any longer, but will give furs for Incense and 11 gold? Uh, ok.

770 (1) Brandenberg falls with no casualties. Zonguldak founded near dyes, stealing the Roman dye. Some MM all around raises our income by 10gpt. Decide to go into Mobilization for a few turns to boost production.

780 (2) Cannons queued in frontier cities. One Sipahi dies in the taking of Hispalis. That's not really fair.

790 (3) Nothing Major.

800 (4) Peace with Germany takes us out of Mobilization. Sinop starts palace prebuild for ToE.

810 (5) Pike in Rome kills our attacking Sipahi. Rails start to appear in China and Zululand.

820 (6) Continue to attack Rome.

830 (7) Leader fish and get Murad III. Victorious unit named "Speaker."

IT- Rome signs alliance with Japan against China. Stupid Romans. Rome was all set to be mine next turn, but China swooped in and killed their last defender a turn before I could. That pisses me off so much. Why would Rome ever declare war on China in this case?

840 (8) Start Medicine, due in 9 turns. Military railnet started. Mao has Electricity.

850 (9) Continue to build Rilfeman and infantry and work on railnet.

860 (10) Murad III arrives in Istanbul to a grand reception. Tech deals end and we now make 177gpt. I adjust Science so Medicine is now due in 5 turns at a surplus of 6gpt.

870 (11) Railnet is still being created and riflemen are being mass produced.

880 (12) Same.

890 (13) Same.

IT- Zululand and Japan sign an alliance against China. If any land starts changing hands here, we are going to have to declare on China and clear out our half of the continent.

900 (14) MM slider to get 280 extra gold this turn.

IT- Germany signs alliance against China. Zululand and Japan sign MPP.

910 (15) Develop Medicine at a monopoly but I do not trade it around.

Conclusion- I played 15 turns because a)nothing really happened, b)there are only three of us, and c)there were a couple things I wanted to finish up. Hope you guys don't mind. We have Medicine at a monopoly, but China will not trade Electricity for it unless we give him something like 130gpt. That would essentially kill our research. We can develop Electricity on our own in 8 turns and then Scientific Method in 10-15. I would recommend researching those two techs on our own, then using the prebuild in Sinop, which has 26 turns left in it, and can be delayed if need be, for ToE. I would guess we will get Scientific Method before the prebuild runs out, however. We may end up wasting some shields, but who cares? A hundred or so wasted shields do not matter when you get ToE. IMO, we should then use our two free techs to get Atomic Theory and either Electronics or Industrialization, depending on whether anyone else has Industrialization to trade to us. In any event, Those should be our next three techs. Murad III, currently sitting in Istanbul, should be used to rush Hoover's in Istanbul. With the three other civs all at war, and China in Communism and Zululand in Monarchy, we will have a huge advantage technologically and economically. None of them really have much to trade us, so I suggest keeping Medicine to ourselves. If the next 20-25 turns go according to plan, we will secure ToE and Hoover and the game will be easily ours however we want to end it. We should continue to build up our defenses, make sure each city has at least one rifleman if not two, and crank out as many Sipahi as possible. We really don't need any wars right now, so try to stay out of the current World War. Do not disband any of our current units or merge any workers into cities. Read the thread of my other SG, LK38 and see how pissed off Sirian got when someone did that. With Hoover and then factories all around, with a good railway, we will kill the AI on production and should be able to build up enough tanks to capture all of China and win via domination. Or we could speed along till the Modern Age and go to space. I'd kinda like to do that because I have never won a space victory on deity and LK38 is looking like a military ending, which I have already had, anyways. We are in great shape. Good luck to the next player.

PS- We also have excess luxuries to trade if you want. We should also consider putting a city or two in the former Roman lands that are now unclaimed. That will be less land we need to take later.

CF1, 910AD
 
Well it surely looks different around ! Where's the Red ? What's all this sky blue ? Wow !~

Sate of the Nation : loads of cities, loads of of very slow and old units, really, but really not enough workers, if Sirian was lurkin he would :hammer: us big time ! Unworthy pupils we are.
Ok what else : not a load of money, TONS of corruption.
Why is that, one wonders. Hu...wait a sec ! we're still in friggin'Republic ! Oh my oh my ! It's true that this game is turning out pretty good for us but I think we are not
out "for a walk in the park". Both our Palaces are in wrong places given the shape of our Empire, not our fault OK but from this position and given the Chinese might, there is no way we can
get an SS victory, this game is going towards military ending big time, but that's OK just like Speaker I have had very few mil victories at this level so it would be nice to do it here.
But you know what ? You know how many Sipahis we got ? 9, just 9 miserable Sipahis and 5 outdated Knights !
So we better build fast and now if we ever want to tease China. Drastic measures needed.
Great Wonders are great yes, but actually if it were not for it I would use Murad 1 to rebuild the Palace in Brundisium or Mugla!
Good we don't have the Palace available as it is a prebuild or else I might have vetoed our whole game plan ;)

And so begins the reign of Skyfish the Cleaner.
Corruption cost in 910ad : 286gpt !

Preturn : Acquire Printing Press from Mao for Incense, just Incense. Exchange Medicine for Democracy from Mao as well as, get this, 2730g !
this treasure will finance our research once we get out of our GA very soon. We will not be able to run the research we are now.
This is also good because it cripples the Chinese economy to pay almost their whole treasure for this, they might also search Sanitaion for us while we beeline for ToE and Hoover.
My instructions to mine around Sinop have not been followed, too bad because we are running a EIGHT, 8, food surplus in this size 12 city
which is also immune to corruption since it is our FP site, a huge waste of shields. I admit it is not too bad since we are waiting for ToE anyway
but still what a waste !
Veto Granny in Aydin, its max size anyway. Rush Library in Hispalis. Change Bingol to Uni. Let highly corrupt cities produce workers.
early turns : Build a few more Sipahis and riflemen in our core, to beef up our military.

Mid -turn : get Palace extension. The Chinese destroy the Germans. 950ad : Our GA ends... Anarchy ! I draw 5 turns not too bad. we lose -30 gpt.
Renew our Spice deal with Japan for Dyes, Wine and Incense, do not renew Furs deals as it is too expensive in Anarchy but will do it when we're in Democracy
We can not make ANY gpt deals, what happened ? Did we have some kind of deal with Germany ? Oh no !

end turns : Palace extension again. Japan completes Shakespeare. Chinese amass troops by Hispalis but I have a counter attack force ready if they hit us...They have Infantry !
The counter attack force "threat" on Rome works, the Chinese back off. By mining Sinop we are now still 26 turns away from ToE, and that's "out of" GA prod...
The Millenium year sees the Great ottoman Democracy born !

Corruption cost in 1010ad : 198gpt ! Almost 100 gpt saved !

China wants 100g OK I cave in, it's not the time now...but you're ON THE LIST NOW !

Maybe we should strike China now before they build Infantry everywhere in our continent and our Sipahis become useless...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Osman_of_the_Ottomans,_1010_AD.zip
 
We need to fill in the rails around all of our core cities. More money (very important) and more food (not as important yet). Can we please get modernish defenders in all our cities. Seeing spearmen defending Aydin is boiling my blood. Oh and I checked my save from 910AD and China would accept no gpt deal for their Gems. Mao would not take 50gpt, 100gpt, 200gpt, 1000gpt, or 999999gpt. His loss.
 
Great Wonders are great yes, but actually if it were not for it I would use Murad 1 to rebuild the Palace in Brundisium or Mugla!

Are you crazy? Moving our core from a center of highly populated, totally developed, fertile cities to a sparsely populated, underdeveloped wasteland of former Roman sites would be amazingly weedy. Doing our own research would thus become impossible since our new core would not have libraries and universities in all of its cities, while our previously built universities and libraries would go wasted (due to corruption). If we had drawn the maximum of turns of Anarchy, I would definitely consider the change to Democracy to be weed as well. As non-religious civ, I might have considered switching to Democracy after building ToE and Hoover, but probably never would have. It is really not that necessary, especially if you have to give up 4, or 5, or 6, or more turns of production and science to get there. You seem to be quaffing at Great Wonders here. Maybe you don't understand why they are necessary. ToE will put us securely in the lead technologically, which in a Deity game, is the only way the human can really catch up. Further, Hoover will make the building of any power plants totally unnecessary, which will allow us to catch up in production against the 60% AI. With ToE and Hoover, we are first to tanks and have the production power to build many of them very quickly. We have used our Sipahi already to our advantage, to take out Rome and start our GA. No need to send them to the glue factory against infantry.
 
I would not have switched to Democracy either. This is a very crucial time period for us and we need lots of military. plus we are finally starting to get the tech lead. I don't know how you figure China or someone else would beat us to a spaceship.

I think we are going to be fine. We do need some workers (which should be trimmed from the size 12 cities that have full food). We need defense at least for our border cities. With rails we can curb almost any attack that the AI will bring us.
 
Here is a map for any lurkers out there:

cf1,_1010AD.jpg
 
:eek: :eek:

Hey guys, I know my comments were a bit harsh but they are in no way a critic of what you have done !
I like a bit of debate and I am only saying this in order to get some debate going about strategies :D
I understand fully the advantage of the Wonders and I agree with that course of action, I have changed nothing regarding that.
Speaker's comments about timing of the wonders and research was based on Golden Age production which has ended now so the whole timing was wrong...

The main reason I switched to Democracy is to have 50% faster workers which is perfectly in line with Speaker's comment of increasing railroads and money. Also the switch meant 95gpt more per turn because of less corrution ! How can you say this is "almost weed" ?
Democracy is also the only way we will get a tech lead, as we are FAR from that position right now (China is past Rep parts and we don't have Electricity!)

Looking at the sheer size of China and their lead on us, it is obvious they are a contender, however you might be right that attacking them would slow them down and increase our chances...

Voodoo, when you say we need loads of military right now I disagree we have 5 to 8 defending units in main border cities, that's enough PLUS there is no need for Sipahis as we need to wait for tanks before we can hit the Chinese.

But hey great ! I wanted debate, I got it ! :lol: :lol:
 
We need Sapahi to make sure we don't get slaughtered by China. I played my turns which was 15 because this game needs to pick up speed. I suggest playing 15 turns while we are at peace.
 
Preturn: Change Ankara to worker. Same with Riza. Palmyra rushes barracks for 144. We need a place to upgrade troops. The reason nobody will take gpt payments is because we are running a deficit.

Early: This is where it was really slow. We built some infrastructure and military. A little more military than infra. My goal this turn is to get more military, while preparing infrastructure. Also train workers.

Mid: China is flexing its muscles. They are waltzing a few Cavalry through our lands to attack a small zulu city. Good thing it isn't us. We discover Scientific Method. ToE built at loss of 90 shields. The two techs I choose are Atomic Theory and Electronics. Ordered up the Hoover in Istanbul.

Late: Slow again, but I wanted to do 2 things. Build up our work force and our rifles. We have 30 of both. We're gonna have some pollution in 10 turns. 2nd thing was to finish core railnet.

Looking Forward:

In 10 turns we will have 12 cities with factories in them. In 10 turns we will have Hoover. Then we will have Hospitals to build as Sanitation will be available next turn. The reason I did it is because the AI is not researching it. China doesn't have Espionage, but Japan does. Who knows what China is researching. All China has researched was Sci Method the turn after we got it.

We have 17 Sapahi, 30 rifles and a few cannons. We started a navy and have 2 ironclads. China has 55 Cavs right next to Riza. If they wanted to do harm they could. They are heading home Though.

If your time permits, I would like if we all could play 15 turns. This won't be possible when we are fighting a modern war, of course. But when it's slow there's not much to see. The last SG I played was 20 turns each on a large map. Turns took way too long at the end. I think 15 is a good balance for peace time operations.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/cf1-1160ad.zip
 
Oh, we still have a leader available. So if you guys want, we can build Universal Suffrage. The AI is in Communism, so they don't need it. Can't wait to see our empire the next time my turn comes around :D With Hoover and hopefully closer to Tanks
 
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