How do you pronounce "Gif"?

[Gori the Grey]

I always misspell veil cus of that stupid bleeping rule they teach you in grade school i before e, exception before c exception there's a million words that don't follow this convention! Like viel, I mean veil!

You'd do better with the one you find difficult if they'd taught you the second half of the rule :

Or when sounding like ay/ as in neighbor and weigh.

It takes care of most of the bleeping exceptions.

 

[Borachio]

That's true.

The way English isn't taught to native speakers is very peculiar.

But I think it's a technique the teachers learned after centuries of being studiously ignored by their students.

 

[Arakhor]

Agincourt?

... is a place in France. Come on, Mise.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If these immigrant words want to be a part of English they are just going to have to assimilate! Hard gees for all the giraffes, or we will build a huge linguistic wall and make Mexico pay for it!

 

[Akka]

I love that link because it absolutely destroys the argument that it should be pronounced 'jif' just because the coiner of the word says so. The way I see it, the guy may have coined the word, but he is not the creator of the English language, and therefore has no right to contradict grammatical or pronunciation conventions within the language. And current conventions within the language say it should be pronounced 'gif'.

Actually, I found this link pretty crappy, as basically it's just "it should be pronounced like that because I say so".

His main argument is factually false ("Every word that starts with G, then a vowel, then an F, is pronounced with a hard G.", while this very thread is filled with counter-examples), his reasonings are weird (he uses "gift" as an argument why "gif" should use a hard G "because it's the closest word to it", so I suppose "head" should be pronounced like "had" following the same "logic" ?), he arrogantly assert that anyone who doesn't pronounce it the way he consider it should be, does it only because "the creator said so" (while I'd bet most people wouldn't even know the creator said anything about it).

It's just plain garbage, TBH. I mean, there is one and only argument, it's "most of the time, english uses a hard G", and that's about it.

And when it comes to "the creator said so", it certainly seems pretty relevant to me. The creator certainly can't redefine english, but when english allows for several correct pronounciations, then the person who invented the word definitely has legitimacy about the correct one. That's especially true for names - if someone tells you his name is pronounced in a specific way (and this way is correct in english), are you going to argue that no, you know better how it should be said ?

Well, giraffe, agility, giant, gibbet and origin are originally French, gin and gibberish come from Dutch and ageing is spelt with an E

Average is also from the French, but we say all such -age words with a soft G, especially as G is usually soft before E. G is always hard in Latin and Greek, I believe, so gymnasion wouldn't fit with the French-influenced softening of the G.

The above of course is the problem with English - we have so many foreign words compared to our Germanic roots, pronunciation can be very difficult!

I don't really see how pointing that such word comes from latin/greek/french and not a germanic language, change anything about the fact that the g is often soft before e/i/y and as such "jif" is an acceptable pronounciation. It's not like "gif" had a definite etymology which told it should have a hard G.

... is a place in France. Come on, Mise.

Well, actually in France it's Azincourt

 

[Ryika]

So here's the thing:
Pronunciations are a social construct.

Pronounce it however you want, and you'll be alright.
If someone tells you you can't - do it anyway to smash the Patriarchy.

You go, girl!

 

[Dachs]

So here's the thing:
Pronunciations are a social construct.

Pronounce it however you want, and you'll be alright.
If someone tells you you can't - do it anyway to smash the Patriarchy.

You go, girl!

I mean, apart from the terrible joke, you're not wrong. Language is about communication, so as long as words are being pronounced in a way that is easily mutually intelligible there's nothing wrong with variation.

 

[Ryika]

I mean, apart from the terrible joke, you're not wrong. Language is about communication, so as long as words are being pronounced in a way that is easily mutually intelligible there's nothing wrong with variation.

Not sure what joke you're talking about, there was no joke.

I mean in the end it's a popularity contest anyway. Even if there's a general rule that objectively makes a pronunciation correct we're breaking these rules all the time for various reasons - popularity being one of them. That will of course not stop people from saying stuff like: "Well, actually it's about gender equality. pronounced gif, not jif." - but in the end numbers will prove them wrong.

 

[Dachs]

Not sure what joke you're talking about, there was no joke.

I mean in the end it's a popularity contest anyway. Even if there's a general rule that objectively makes a pronunciation correct we're breaking these rules all the time for various reasons - popularity being one of them. That will of course not stop the "Well, actually it's about gender equality. pronounced gif, not jif."-people from accepting that the pronunciation has changed due to how the word is pronounced.

The joke is how your posts are some of the worst forced comparisons I've ever seen.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Someone's gonna learn how to pronounce "burn", I think.

 

[Ryika]

The joke is how your posts are some of the worst forced comparisons I've ever seen.

Being genderfluid and generally a mad person my brain is wired somewhat strangely. Sometimes thoughts enter my mind without much of a reason and I draw connections that other people can't quite follow.

You went from...

I mean, apart from the terrible joke, you're not wrong.

...which suggested I was making a joke, to...

The joke is how your posts are some of the worst forced comparisons I've ever seen.

...though, suggesting that my posts by themselves are jokes.

I think you should stick with one of the two.

 

[Arakhor]

I don't really see how pointing that such word comes from latin/greek/french and not a germanic language, change anything about the fact that the g is often soft before e/i/y and as such "jif" is an acceptable pronounciation. It's not like "gif" had a definite etymology which told it should have a hard G.

If anything, it's the word's creator who is the one going on about what is and isn't acceptable to say. Most Anglophone people looking at the word would use a hard G and in the end that is really all that matters. I certainly have never said that you can't use a soft G, just that you'll be in the minority if you do.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Not sure what joke you're talking about, there was no joke.

Oh, but there was a goke, whether you were aware of it or not.

You ended your post with a common phrase that, in the context of this thread, one might playfully experiment with misspronouncing, "You jo jirl." And such an alternate pronunciation could in fact be regarded as an attempt to "smash the patriarchy" in just the way that "womyn" etc seek to.

 

[Mise]

We should pronounce it like the Spanish or ancient Greeks pronounce it. "yhzzyhhyzzzyheeeeeeiff". That might be fun.

 

[gay_Aleks]

"yiff"?

I'd suggest you don't look this up in Google.

 

[Arakhor]

And why does a nice young man like you know what 'yiffing' means?

 

[gay_Aleks]

A friend of a friend told me.

 

[Commodore]

It's just plain garbage, TBH. I mean, there is one and only argument, it's "most of the time, english uses a hard G", and that's about it.

And that's the only argument that's needed. Popular usage is the only determining factor in how language works, and that's the way to should be since language is supposed to be a commonly understood way in which we communicate with each other. So allowing language to be governed by mob rule is perfectly acceptable, and the mob says it's pronounced 'gif'.

And when it comes to "the creator said so", it certainly seems pretty relevant to me.

Of course you would think it's relevant, because it's a point that supports your position. That doesn't mean it actually is relevant though.

 

[Gori the Grey]

and the mob says it's pronounced 'gif'.

And, boy, does it ever. I'm not sure I've ever seen such a lopsided poll on CFCOT.

26-1-1 at the time of this posting.

 

[Arakhor]

And that's the only argument that's needed. Popular usage is the only determining factor in how language works, and that's the way to should be since language is supposed to be a commonly understood way in which we communicate with each other. So allowing language to be governed by mob rule is perfectly acceptable, and the mob says it's pronounced 'gif'.

Well, that's not entirely true, but this thread is probably not the place for discussion of the relative merits of prescriptivism and descriptivism in linguistics.

And, boy, does it ever. I'm not sure I've ever seen such a lopsided poll on CFCOT.

It does help that it's not actually possible to register a proper choice.