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How is everything not collapsing in the US?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Narz, Aug 2, 2020.

  1. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    During Cold War both sides tried to fool each other. From what I read in multiple sources, modern analysis shows that Warsaw Pact seizing Western Europe in 2 weeks was (military-wise) quite realistic scenario back then, provided the war doesn't go nuclear. US troops in Germany were needed to justify nuclear escalation in case of attack.
     
  2. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    The point is that if America can afford to easily shoulder all these expenses, it should be very easy for the country to invest in healthcare for all Americans and maybe even make education cheap or free. And a lot more than that. But nope, there's never any money in the budget for any of that. If it's so easy to fund this stuff, where's the money and why aren't they doing that?

    Read my follow-up post. These are not ideologies that our politicians throw their hats into. Our politicians throw their hat into the "conservative" or "libertarian" or "green" or "liberal" ideology ring and then ignore all others.

    There is probably a better word to use than "ideology", but I'm not a political analyst so the terminology escapes me. If some guy said "I only ever care about the Geneva convention, I will ignore all other problems and solutions", that would make her a useless politician.
     
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  3. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    POTUS doesn't have that kind of power.
     
  4. Denkt

    Denkt Left permamently

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    Because countries don't generally go against their own business because said businesses have influence in politics. So while US could go for universal healthcare, the current healthcare providers who would maybe cease to exist if that happens obviously don't want that to happen. Same thing why EU seems so pro alcohol and I think actually forced countries like Sweden to adopt more pro alcohol legislation or something like that. The better option would be working towards a complete alcohol ban.

    Governments sometimes don't select the options that are best for people due to various factors such as influence from businesses. Money is just a medium of exchange, so when they say it is the money that is the problem it is probably really something else that is the problem.
     
  5. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    It's not all about money. Did you ever think there are cultural and historical reasons why certain nations don't adopt certain policies? Just because you are able to do something doesn't necessarily mean you will do it or that you even want to do it. Same goes for things that a nation does decide to do.

    As a smaller scale example take my Warhammer hobby. To many people that would seem like a stupid use of my money. "Why don't you invest or save it? That's what all the successful rich people would do!" they would probably say. And yeah, maybe in the grand scheme of things it is a waste of money. But it makes me, personally, happy which is why I continue to dump money into it instead of spending that money on a "smarter" financial move.
     
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  6. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Yeah, I'm sure there are a bunch of historical reasons why the American people have been fooled to accept the situation in which they supposedly live in the world's best country but at the same time have horrible access to healthcare and education and socioeconomic mobility prospects.

    The excuse is always "We don't have money to pay for any of that", which is obviously a lie. The money is there, it's just being spent on something else, such as $500k desks for military officers and $20M surface to air missiles that never get used.
     
  7. Denkt

    Denkt Left permamently

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    As I said before, money is just a medium of exchange. The $500k desk only cost that much because someone is willing to pay $500k for that desk. Both americans and europeans have lived easy if you compare to the situation in the rest of the world which may cause quite ignorant behaviors.
     
  8. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    The American tax payer is paying for that desk, but not by choice.

    "We're doing better than the developing world, so there is nothing to discuss here" is such a weird way of ignoring problems. It would be fine if you weren't at the same time claiming to be the best country in the world.. but..
     
  9. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    This is not a valid argument against military spending. The whole point of maintaining a strong military is precisely so you don't have to use it. If you have to use your military, it's because others think you are weak enough to be challenged.

    That's why whenever I hear people say some stupid crap like "How does fighting in Iraq protect my freedom?" I respond by telling them it doesn't, but just the fact that the military exists is how they defend your freedom.
     
  10. Denkt

    Denkt Left permamently

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    In Sweden the tax payers pay for the politicians expensive travels which is as much of a waste as the desk. Meanwhile the EU can dismantle Sweden's alcohol monopoly and things like that while the country probably pay EU more than it get back in return. Meanwhile Sweden is used by american politicans either as a perfect country or a horrible place.
     
  11. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    ...so is Iraq a training exercise? Kinda like when I cheese promotions in civ by harassing a CS endlessly?
     
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  12. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    No, the American tax payer is paying for protection. What the government then chooses to do with the protection money they are paid is up to them, not the people.

    I mean, you pay for monthly cellphone service right? Do you think of that in terms of paying for the service or do you think of it in terms of paying for the CEO's salary increase? You think of it as the former because that is the correct way if thinking of it. So why don't you think of it that way when it comes to tax dollars? And I don't want to hear anything about taxes being involuntary because they aren't. You can choose not to pay taxes by giving up your citizenship and leaving the country just like you would have to move out of your apartment if you decided you didn't want to pay your rent anymore.
     
  13. amadeus

    amadeus As seen on OT

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    Undoubtedly problems exist, but it's not what the loudest voices on the internet would have you believe.
     
  14. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    In my opinion, Europe or Russia shouldn't base their security policies on the foundation of US internal laws and regulations.
    US has track record of multiple aggressions against independent countries, ignoring international laws whenever they see fit and electing unpredictable irrational populist as a president.
    It's EU business, but IMO they should invest more into their military even though they aren't being threatened by anybody right now.
     
  15. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    investment without reason doesn't make sense. That's why I keep asking what enemy could pose a threat worth increasing investment in a military that can, as commodore pointed out, already defend itself against Russia without the US.

    Just blanket statements that they're not doing enough isnt saying much. The US would be shooting itself in the foot economically by invading. If China or Russia invaded the US would absolutely react. I'm just asking what threat out there is going to go after the EU that they currently cannot handle.
     
  16. amadeus

    amadeus As seen on OT

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    Why is an American invasion of Western Europe being discussed again? :confused:
     
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  17. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    I'm not arguing against military spending. I am arguing that not spending money on universal healthcare or education or other infrastructure your citizens need.. and then spending such obscene amounts on the world's largest military.. to such an extent that if you put together every single other military in the world (most of which are American allies), the American military complex would still dwarf it by quite a bit.

    Your argument seems to be: "Military spending is important! You never know when the aliens can show up or maybe the Transformers. We have to be ready for anything. Nobody needs healthcare or education, we don't have money for that"

    Protection from what, space aliens? Giant death robots?

    Sounds like a mafia type racket if you ask me. "Pay us for protection and forget you ever needed healthcare or education or heck screw sidewalks too, there's no money for anything"

    You do realize that the vast majority of threats facing America would not be dealt with using a traditional military? There is virtually no enemy out there that you need such an insanely large military for. Unless you are getting ready for an alien invasion
     
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  18. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    Because it's the only world power that could feasibly pose a threat I'm guessing. Funny part is that most "experts" and politicians in America who argue that Europe needs to increase military are doing so on the behalf of the weapons industry. That means the guys arguing for increased EU spending because the US is a potential threat under a kook like Trump are arguing that the EU should spend more on US munitions.
     
  19. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    Well, what is a government but a legitimized mafia?
     
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  20. stinkubus

    stinkubus Emperor

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    We left a few women and children alive in Vietnam and haven't felt good about ourselves since.
     
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