How to win Space Race before 1900 ...

[scotchex]

This is my goal. I'm playing noble. My best time so far is 1986. I used chop rushing and lots of cottages to get that. I think I had too few cities (I only had 6 on that game). I was playing a duel map, and was always the tech leader so wasn't able to tech trade. I played with Elizabeth (fin/philo).

Are there certain techs it's important to get early? By the end my science city had over 600 beakers. And my whole civ was producing around 1200 beakers/turn.

I'm looking for any advice on how to win the Space Race before 1900. I wasn't able to use cash rushing very effectively. By the time I was gushing cash I was producing spaceship parts, which I couldn't cash rush. So I ended the game with some 20k in unspent gold -- clearly a waste there.

thanks.

 

[DaveMcW]

I would guess you are wasting too much time building wonders. The only great wonder I build in a space race game is the Oracle.

 

[Andrei_V]

I'd build the Great Library, too. I also build Gardens sometimes. The rest is entirely optional.

Better focus on science, get Education and Oxford ASAP.

 

[Murky]

This is my goal. I'm playing noble. My best time so far is 1986. I used chop rushing and lots of cottages to get that. I think I had too few cities (I only had 6 on that game). I was playing a duel map, and was always the tech leader so wasn't able to tech trade. I played with Elizabeth (fin/philo).

Are there certain techs it's important to get early? By the end my science city had over 600 beakers. And my whole civ was producing around 1200 beakers/turn.

I'm looking for any advice on how to win the Space Race before 1900. I wasn't able to use cash rushing very effectively. By the time I was gushing cash I was producing spaceship parts, which I couldn't cash rush. So I ended the game with some 20k in unspent gold -- clearly a waste there.

thanks.

Space Race doesn't go well by using cash-rush because techs are more important than buying improvements. Your focus should be on expansion and gaining the required technologies ASAP. You want to have enough commerce cities to maintain a good science rate and have enough production centers to build parts fast.

Edit: One thing that might be helpful is to study the logs of a HOF Space Race submission to see the tech paths, wonders built, tech-trades, etc.

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?show=general&entryID=2439

 

[uberfish]

The first thing you want to do is play with more AI civs. Being able to trade for some of the tech you need, and get research discounts from AIs knowing techs that you are researching saves a lot of time. Sometimes going up a difficulty level actually helps you launch faster, because the AIs are more able to keep up in the late game and have good techs available for trade.

 

[theimmortal1]

The game speed is the main factor.

 

[Sisiutil]

My fastest space race victories have always occurred after spending most of the early game conquering territory and cities. Six cities is okay, but two dozen or more and your research really hums along.

 

[Cam_H]

Murky,

I sometimes wonder what I've been doing for the last half a year when I read these logs and read of players who discover Computers in 1295AD.

 

[Murky]

Murky,

I sometimes wonder what I've been doing for the last half a year when I read these logs and read of players who discover Computers in 1295AD.

I know what you mean. Some of these HoF players have really sharpened their skills at getting specific victory types in record time. That is how you see 1600s cultural and space race victories.

 

[drkodos]

I know what you mean. Some of these HoF players have really sharpened their skills at getting specific victory types in record time. That is how you see 1600s cultural and space race victories.

No doubt.


One could also look to a real life model like the former Soviet Union, as well.

 

[futurehermit]

What is the skill level for these 1600s victories?

 

[scotchex]

The game speed is the main factor.

Do you mean quick vs normal vs epic? Do the longer game speeds make early space race more likely? I know they make war more powerful, but I hadn't heard the effects on space race.

 

[futurehermit]

I would think that longer game speeds make for faster space race because it allows you to gain a large empire through conquest early and then pump infrastructure to win space race faster.

 

[Andrei_V]

Slower speeds sure favor earlier launches, with or without early wars. No doubt they favor a good early rush for quick initial expansion, but they also make things like worker moves relatively less expensive. Also, the time scaling (converting turns -> years) is not exactly balanced between different speeds.

You don't really need a large empire for faster finish. I think it should be something like 7-9 cities on normal map, out of which 6 cities should be able to build Universities fast (for Oxford). If you have a larger empire, you'd typically suffer from higher maintenance costs, and need a lot more time to make it profitable.

So, it's perfectly fine to go for an early rush, but be sure you're not overdoing, that is, you're not fighting for more cities than you need, and you do it fast.

 

[scotchex]

I dramatically improved my space race to 1926 (from 1986). Still, I wasn't even able to finish all my research before 1900, let alone build the ship. I avoided most of the wonders, and had my cities set to 'Research' when there was nothing to build. Do you usually have to do that to get an early spaceship victory?

I'm not sure what to do to get faster. Near the end I stopped producing anything with my weaker cities, and just had them add Research. I had 10 cities on my continent (small map). I did overproduce military when conquering my continent. So there was lost time producing that. Probably I just need to wrap up my initial continent conquest faster. It was only around 980 AD when I shifted my sttention to the space race.

 

[ohioastronomy]

I just did a 1413 space race win (settler, but it should scale to somewhat higher levels - I also did a 1700 OCC space race.) Great Plains is a good map - get a good starting map. You can do most of your research with a single city, usually the capital. Key ingredients:

Financial civ, with a couple of food resources in the starting city and plenty of grasslands or flood plains for cottages. Build a library early, force two scientists, and get an academy (50% research bonus for the rest of the game). Avoid wonders in the capital until you get a great scientist. You'll want to push early for Drama (Globe helps grow a massive research city) and Education (stack Oxford with an academy for huge bonuses - you can get 1000 research/turn from one city).

The only wonders you actually need are the Oracle (I like the Civil Service slingshot) and the Pyramids (Representation). Stone is essential for the Pyramids, Marble is nice for the Oracle. Get your civics lined up early - I like Representation (extra happiness, beakers - Pyramids!); Caste System (CoL), Pacifism (Philosophy - take those great scientists and put them in the capital as specialists), Environmentalism (late, but the extra health helps your massive production/science cities), Bureacracy (Civil Service, extra production in the capital) or Free Speech. Make sure you have at least 2-3 massive production cities, and keep focused on the goal - no military, avoid wasting effort on cultural or gold producing buildings. I usually end the game without researching Fascism, Communism, Democracy, Mass Media, Military Tradition, Divine Right, avoid temples, banks, etc.

Beeline in Techs - key pathways are Astronomy (Observatory), Biology (extra farm production), Assembly Line (you'll need factories for the parts), Rocketry (Apollo), Industrialism (reveals Aluminum), Computers (Lab). Early on, Alphabet can be huge - you can usually trade for many of the early techs and jump to a big lead.

 

[Andrei_V]

I'd postpone trading Alphabet until the GL is built. On Noble anyway, since you have plenty of other techs like CoL for trading.

To deal with income, you can assign a single city (usually the one with Kong Miao or whatever is the shrine of your state religion), and build there all financial buildings - Market, Grocer, Bank, then (later in the game) Wall Street, and run Merchant Specialists. Settle the Great Merchant from Economics there, too. This way you can run 100% science most of the time.

 

[scotchex]

Interesting. I've been building most of the financial buildings -- market, bank, grocer, etc, in most of the cities. I figured it didn't hurt, especially when I had nothing else to build. I also had all the basic science buildings in all my cities.

I've been playing continents since that feels more ... earth-like, to me ... do most of the early space race people play on other maps, like plains? I just opened a plains map for the first time ... wow. In my continents game I'm always getting a couple of worthless tiles in my cities -- deserts, peaks, tundra, etc. But the plains map I just looked at was amazing. except for the peaks, every tile was almost ideal.

But the plains map kinda breaks my illusion of the Civ games. I want to conquer the world, and that means continents and oceans. Still, that plains map looks awfully tempting.

 

[Andrei_V]

Interesting. I've been building most of the financial buildings -- market, bank, grocer, etc, in most of the cities. I figured it didn't hurt, especially when I had nothing else to build. I also had all the basic science buildings in all my cities.

It's ok to build all those improvements, but not as the first priority. If you run close to 100% science, they do no good as far as wealth is concerned, unless you have some sources of income other than tile commerce, like Merchant Specialists or a religious shrine.

On the other hand, Markets increase happiness, Grocers - health, certain number of Banks is needed for Wall Street.

So, you'd still build them when necessary, but the scientific buildings (Libraries, Observatories, etc) have higher priority.

If you have large periods of time when your cities have nothing to build, consider changing your tech path. They must be busy with helpful things all the time. Actually, one of the principal rules in any race - time your research with your building. By the time you finish some building, you have to discover another tech to build something else.

do most of the early space race people play on other maps, like plains? I just opened a plains map for the first time ... wow.

If you want a record launch in the HOF, Great Plains is a real good candidate for you. If you want just to break 1900 (or even 1800) barrier, you can use any other map. Try Lakes, for instance, you'll have less juicy resources in the beginning, but also less problems with strategic resources like Coal or Aluminium in the end.

But the plains map kinda breaks my illusion of the Civ games. I want to conquer the world, and that means continents and oceans. Still, that plains map looks awfully tempting.

If you want to conquer the world, conquer the world on whatever map you are. Forget about Space Race completely, entirely, and forever.

 

[ohioastronomy]

Interesting. I've been building most of the financial buildings -- market, bank, grocer, etc, in most of the cities. I figured it didn't hurt, especially when I had nothing else to build. I also had all the basic science buildings in all my cities.

I've been playing continents since that feels more ... earth-like, to me ... do most of the early space race people play on other maps, like plains? I just opened a plains map for the first time ... wow. In my continents game I'm always getting a couple of worthless tiles in my cities -- deserts, peaks, tundra, etc. But the plains map I just looked at was amazing. except for the peaks, every tile was almost ideal.

But the plains map kinda breaks my illusion of the Civ games. I want to conquer the world, and that means continents and oceans. Still, that plains map looks awfully tempting.

If you have nothing else to build, consider workers. The extra improvements are far more useful than buildings with only marginal utility. The plains/lake/inland sea maps are best for tech because of the resources and the ability to make early contact and trade with other civs.

Things to know about great plains:

Gold, silver etc - and critically, aluminum - are in the Rockies (west side).
The east side (Mississippi) has huge food resources and good grassland cottage terrain, along with tons of trees for chopping. You can get starts with 5+ specials (corn, deer, fur). The middle has floodplains, cows, wheat. Some resources are absent (rice, banana) and sea resources are only on the Gulf Coast (SE) and few in number. Marble tends to be in the east, stone in the center and west.