[NFP] How would you change/improve existing Great Person abilities?

[Luxerne]

There's been a lot of talk about how the civs and leaders are going to be changed/improved/rebalanced in the upcoming April patch. I wonder if we might get more changes to the existing great people sometime?

We've gotten some changes to GP in the past, like how many of the admirals got new abilities for Gathering Storm, or how a few generals, admirals, merchants, and engineers got new abilities in Rise and Fall. Most recently, we got updates to Nobel, da Vinci, and Einstein in the December 2020 patch.

Which other GP do you think could have their abilities changed or rebalanced in some way?

We've seen that there's the possibility of GP getting completely different abilities. For example, Rajendra Chola gets gold and bonuses to naval looting in vanilla, but instead provides a flat +3 to all present and future naval units in GS. We've also seen the possibility of GP simply being buffed (like da Vinci) or nerfed (Adam Smith, for owners of R&F or GS).



I suppose the first thing I'd ask to be changed is how the game handles the scientists and engineers that produce eurekas. Zhang Heng, who was added in the NFP, is unique in that he provides the eurekas for three specific techs (celestial navigation, mathematics, and engineering) and completes these techs instantly if the eurekas are already triggered. None of the other GP with specific eurekas have this functionality.

I can't count the number of times I saw Euclid, for example, waiting to be recruited, but I'd already boosted mathematics. So, I'd hope that the GP with specific eurekas could all be changed so that they complete the technology if the eureka is already triggered.

For reference, these are:

Scientists: Euclid (mathematics), Mendeleev (chemistry), Turing (computers)
Engineers: Bi Sheng (printing), Lovelace (computers), Goddard (rocketry)

This change, however, would definitely introduce an... interesting possibility with Lovelace. She's an industrial era engineer who would potentially unlock an atomic era tech. I guess I would change the eureka part of her ability to be something like "Unlocks the eureka for Computers. If already triggered, unlocks a different random eureka from the atomic era." That would help with the potential redundancy between Lovelace and Turing too.



What are your thoughts on the existing great person abilities and how would you change them?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Not sure if it will ever happen but I've been hoping for Great Prophets to do something more than just be able to found a religion. Give each one an extra charge/ability in addition to founding one. Here are some of my ideas for the existing ones:

Confucius- Temples provide Culture based off of Holy Site adjacency bonuses and hold 1 Slot for a Great Work of Writing.

John the Baptist- Creates a Relic

Laozi- Mineable resources provide +1 faith and Temples provide Science based off of Holy Site adjacency bonuses.

Sidddhartha Gautama- Gain +1 Diplomatic Favor per turn per turn for every civilization you are not at war with that has your religion established.

Simon Peter- Fishing Boats provide +1 faith and your religious units may embark on water without the required technology.

Zoroaster- Triggers the inspiration for Mysticism. Holy site and buildings may not be pillaged by natural disasters.

Adi Shankara- Creates a Guru unit and Gurus gain an additional charge.

Bodhidharma- Creates a free warrior Monk Unit with one promotion.

Irenaeus- Triggers the Inspiration for Theology, Inquisitors can remove heresy an extra time and you do not have to be at war for military units to "Condemn Heretic".

O No Yasumaro- Creates the Kojiki Great Work of Writing.

Songstan Gampo- Your religious units may move through mountains if there were mountain tunnels present.

Haji Huud- +3 Movement for religious units and missionaries and apostles gain one extra spread.

Madhva Acharya- +10 Strength in Theological Combat

Martin Luther- Triggers the Inspiration for Reformed Church; +4 Combat Strength against units following other Religions.

Thomas Aquinas- University buildings receive faith equal to their science output.

Francis of Assisi- Unimproved tiles adjacent to a Holy Site provide +1 faith with an appeal of Charming or +2 faith when tiles are Breathtaking

 

[InsidiousMage]

Not sure if it will ever happen but I've been hoping for Great Prophets to do something more than just be able to found a religion. Give each one an extra charge/ability in addition to founding one. Here are some of my ideas for the existing ones:

I feel like a better idea is that after you recruit your Great Prophet you can start recruiting Great Theologians that provide the kind of bonuses you mention. You could also earn them even if you don't found a religion that way there is a reason to build Holy Sites that you might not otherwise have.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I feel like a better idea is that after you recruit your Great Prophet you can start recruiting Great Theologians that provide the kind of bonuses you mention. You could also earn them even if you don't found a religion that way there is a reason to build Holy Sites that you might not otherwise have.

Yeah my idea was even after all the religions have been founded, you could still recruit one and use their other bonus without the need for a new type of Great Person.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I'd like to see some Great People with the aspect of the Dual Alternate Leaders. That is, some Great People could be recruited as either of two different types, with different bonuses for each.

Historical Examples:

Omar Khayyam - Great Scientist OR Great Writer
Leonardo da Vince - Great Artist OR Great Engineer
Sebastie Le Prestre de Vauban - Great General OR Great Engineer
Benjamin Franklin - Great Minister OR Great Scientist
Charles Babbage - Great Scientist OR Great Engineer
George Marshall - Great General OR Great Minister

Great Minister is one of three Great People types I think could be usefully added: a sort of Great Governor that effects the entire Civ instead of just one city, possibly enhancing the Attributes of the Leader or even adding new Unique Attributes in addition to those of the named Leader. The other two new Great People would be the Great Theologian as already discussed and the Great Felon - the Great Person you don't particularly want but get stuck with, like Charles Ponzi, Mikhail Bukharin or Rob Roy.

Another way to go, of course, would be, as @Alexander's Hetaroi suggested, to simply have Great Prophets with an 'extra' ability that could be used if you've already founded a Religion.

 

[Ryansinbela]

Lord Lakely mentioned giving each GP a class ability, a unique ability, a passive ability, a great work ability and a golden age ability

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Much like @Alexander's Hetaroi's suggestion, I feel like Great Writers should have their own alternate effects, or at the very least, some of their Great Works should produce a different yield. For instance, while all Great Works of Writing produce Culture and Tourism, the Great Works of certain Great Writers could produce Science, Production, Gold, Faith, Food, Diplo Favor, etc.

I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough to know what yields apply to what Great Works, but maybe someone else does.