How would you improve Civilization V?

[rkelle7]

So the expansion pack is coming out in the Spring. But what about the current multiplayer gameplay and how it can be improved? I believe Civilization V with the new espionage, religion, and other improvements/additions will create the best Civilization franchise to date... But how would you "fix" the current version? Would you?

Here is some ideas as to how I would improve the current game:

1.) There is no lobby other than steam built into the game. It should have a lobby like many other games for the multiplayer experience. For example command and conquer.

2.) When gold per turn is in negative it should delete units. This would make it more realistic where you would have to sell your luxuries to keep your army or make some kind of deal. Not be able to use libraries as pseudo markets.

3.) Balance the wide empire with the tall empire by making the population figure relevant. It takes more and more food to get a higher population and it grows exponentially BUT it does not really affect production/gold and most importantly science. I propose a figure of 50,000 population is equal to one beaker or something along those lines.

4.) Making El Dorado and Fountain of Youth optional to be turned off. They are not even real wonders in the world why are they affecting gameplay so much? The maker of the mirror maps made it optional why can’t it be put in the system for all maps??? Also when is a skirmish mirror map going to be made??? (That would be awesome)

5.) Trade agreements that last only 25 turns then cut off. Basically strategic resources such as iron early in the game are stopped after 25 turns. This puts you in a strategic resource penalty just because the game doesn’t have an option to continue the agreement indefinitely until one party cancels the agreement.

6.) Simultaneous moving. (No fast moving). An idea such as making it mini turns to move units or possibly set up a system where a warning button is pushed in the notification bar and it zooms to the area you are being attacked and you have lets’ say five seconds to move/defend/or attack also. I don’t see how this is viable out of all of these suggestions but would be interesting to see the game regulate the movement speed of armies somehow.

Anyway I think Civilization V is an excellent game but as everyone knows I strive for perfection and I wanted to share what improvements in the game myself and others think could be changed to improve the gameplay.

-AwesoMe

 

[KM]

So the expansion pack is coming out in the Spring. But what about the current multiplayer gameplay and how it can be improved? I believe Civilization V with the new espionage, religion, and other improvements/additions will create the best Civilization franchise to date... But how would you "fix" the current version? Would you?

Here is some ideas as to how I would improve the current game:

1.) There is no lobby other than steam built into the game. It should have a lobby like many other games for the multiplayer experience. For example command and conquer.

2.) When gold per turn is in negative it should delete units. This would make it more realistic where you would have to sell your luxuries to keep your army or make some kind of deal. Not be able to use libraries as pseudo markets.

3.) Balance the wide empire with the tall empire by making the population figure relevant. It takes more and more food to get a higher population and it grows exponentially BUT it does not really affect production/gold and most importantly science. I propose a figure of 50,000 population is equal to one beaker or something along those lines.

4.) Making El Dorado and Fountain of Youth optional to be turned off. They are not even real wonders in the world why are they affecting gameplay so much? The maker of the mirror maps made it optional why can’t it be put in the system for all maps??? Also when is a skirmish mirror map going to be made??? (That would be awesome)

5.) Trade agreements that last only 25 turns then cut off. Basically strategic resources such as iron early in the game are stopped after 25 turns. This puts you in a strategic resource penalty just because the game doesn’t have an option to continue the agreement indefinitely until one party cancels the agreement.

6.) Simultaneous moving. (No fast moving). An idea such as making it mini turns to move units or possibly set up a system where a warning button is pushed in the notification bar and it zooms to the area you are being attacked and you have lets’ say five seconds to move/defend/or attack also. I don’t see how this is viable out of all of these suggestions but would be interesting to see the game regulate the movement speed of armies somehow.

Anyway I think Civilization V is an excellent game but as everyone knows I strive for perfection and I wanted to share what improvements in the game myself and others think could be changed to improve the gameplay.

-AwesoMe

Don t really get some of your points here. Population do affect gold/science/production. Not directly but indirectly. More worked tiles = more production. More gold is more gold multiplied by Markets and such. Libraries give bonus according to population etc etc. A big city produce more science and gold and production then a small one.

I agree about the lobby but more importantly. Civ should have an inbuilt ladder system. statistics of wins and losses, quits etc. That would make people play like the games really mattered in public games too.

Eldorado and FoY are OP. I agree. Especially FoY can make or break a game.

 

[rkelle7]

http://www.civplayers.com/index.php?section=smf&topic=9829.0 KM we discuss population vs tech at the link posted...

 

[KiffeLesBiffles]

Population is just an artificial useless figure: population of a city = (number of citizen)^(2,7) or something like that... and the population of the empire is the sum of the population of cities.

Size 2 city is 7,000 pop. Size 1 is 1,000. Do you really think a size 2 city should be equal to 7 size 1 citis at something ?

 

[CanuckSoldier]

Yes we need a open chat lobby, but I'm not holding my breath on that. The solution to double moves is a unit timer like we had in Civ4, no need to reinvent the wheel here, it worked before and it can work again.

CS

 

[KiffeLesBiffles]

- I think trade should be permanent and cancealable as well.
- I want to have an Earth map, Europe map and other real map in MP.
- Another big issues was naval combat, but let's see what the expansion will bring.
- Some small and big exploit should be fix :
-GL free tech delay using the turn timer
-SP delay using the turn timer
-Infinite gold from pillage and repair improvement from a razed city
-Another secret exploit

-Some annoying micromanagements should be removed (city grow, settler build)

 

[rkelle7]

Population is just an artificial useless figure: population of a city = (number of citizen)^(2,7) or something like that... and the population of the empire is the sum of the population of cities.

Size 2 city is 7,000 pop. Size 1 is 1,000. Do you really think a size 2 city should be equal to 7 size 1 citis at something ?

I'm thinking that if they use it exponentially and it takes longer and longer to build citizens I think the larger city should produce more science. And I didn't say the formula that was currently being used is the best option. Maybe rework the entire tech tree to make it so it would work. But I'm not sure how to do this though I will think about it. The flipside of it is do you think a pop lets say 7 city should produce the same science of a pop 2 pop 2 pop 3 cities? Because of how long it takes in food cost to get to size 7?

 

[Tabarnak]

Let allow some science buildings that can be built only after X .

A bit like the sanitation system from civ2. You couldn't grow over 12 if you didn't build it.

 

[BuilderFTW]

I was thinking maybe the growth bucket required to grow cities should not be so steep. Currently the best way to get the most citizens working tiles is to build many cities, I believe if you made it so that it did not require as much food to grow high population cities a tall empire would have more citizens in comparison with a larger empire.

 

[rkelle7]

I like the brainstorming that is going on in here. Maybe both actions should be taken in regards to science...not allow a university until size 9 or so and decrease the amount of food to grow your population. This might mean Aztec floating garden might have to be nerfed but it would be a fair trade. Not only would this even out tall and small empires it might make tradition with growth viable again.

Earth/Europe/USA map would be awesome in multiplayer. Though it would be limited to 6 or so players as of now. Hopefully they write some code that helps with the multiplayer experience dealing with number of players.

The Great Libary bug where u dont' have to choose tech right away is a problem also I agree.

Kiff please tell us or message me exploits because I'm going to send this thread to firaxis after I summarize it. I did not know u could get infinite gold from pillaging razed city. And also what do you mean by naval combat problems? With the settler micromanagement build are you talking about it doesn't take into account more than +3 food? Just message me if you can.

Canuck what do you mean by civ4 turn timer? I never played civ 4 multiplayer explain it to me like I have no idea because I don't...maybe even post a youtube video of it or builderftw can with his recording device. And in regards to the lobby maybe there can be separate rooms for each type of game you want to play so you get grouped in with other like players.

I was also told by a top player that we should balance out the social policy trees but he made a good point multiplayer skirmish the way the league plays (www.civplayers.com) and single player are two separate games. So why not two separate policy trees???? Or the option to swap out policy trees for more useful ones that aren't created yet or used in skirmish multiplayer no cs barbs runes. Keep the old policy trees for fun pub ffa's etc.?

Also I just thought of this...Maybe ranged units get extra defensive bonuses when being attacked accross river or up a mountain. Because usually they would be able to attack for a longer period of time in real life than a melee unit stationed on the side of the river or on top of a mountain. Not a large modifier maybe 5-10% bonus. Or a first strike capability.

Also puppets. Maybe not being able to choose what they produce but at least what "focus" they are in such as prodution/default/growth/gold. I have found it always chooses gold without fail.

How does everyone feel about tech trading?

What about bombarding tiles to destroy improvements (maybe like worker takes 3-4 shots)?

 

[Nefliqus]

My suggestions:

1) Pause in MP game with clock!
2) add to the friend list directly from game
3) Rejoin to last game menu option
4) unhappiness penalty when I use nukes
5) some turns break between GS bulb
6) turn based units movements in MP

 

[rkelle7]

Alright guys I just talked to two top players in the world at Civ 5 and I have a lot to share in regards to how we could improve the game. Other than what has already been discussed though there may be some overlap.

1.) Nerf great wall. Maybe make it like himji for a combat bonus in friendly territory until dynamite and have walls built in the city or cities that you currently have. Or just slow down the first tile on the border and none of the rest.
2.) Nerf hanging gardens. Possibly +8 food per turn or even less +6 food per turn with added culture.
3.) Strategic resource penalty. Instead of immediately getting a -50% combat penalty make it so it steps to -50%. For example one turn without iron would be -10% to -15%. Then second turn -20% to 30%. Etc until 50%. Because if u think about it they are already equipped and would just need replacement weapons.
4.) If you have -10 happiness per turn and are in negative gold your units can become barbs.
5.) If you have negative gold instead of deleting units the default is a reduced combat strength for all of your units with the prompt “Please delete units or balance income to prevent combat penalty”
6.) Maybe social policy based units turning to barbs such as if you pick freedom your units just have penalty. They won’t turn into barbs. But if you pick tradition they can.
7.) Maybe in honor they have policy addition where you have 10 turns to take a city in the negative gold or you start getting combat penalty in negative.
8.) Liberty should be changed to Empire/Expansionist. With +1 production changed to slavery without the ability to have Empire/Expansionist at the same time as rationalism or freedom. (maybe)
9.) Honor should give you free settler when choosing extra experience policy. (maybe)
10.) The nuke penalty where u get unhappiness from using nukes.
11.) http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=454196 great general improvements. And great generals should be even harder to get thus increasing the usefullness of the honor policy tree and certain civs.
12.) Settlers, workers, great people take one turn to “attach” and “detach” from a unit. When attached they move together. This would make most sense because in real life they would move together not be able to fast move to kill one.
13.) Great scientist nerf. Your scientist will give you a limited amount of beakers. And each era the beakers increase.
14.) I did not agree with this but maybe a penalty from era of unit such as sword and long swords though strength is already penalty enough in my opinion.
15.) Ability to get mech infantry before infantry in tech tree. Maybe change that.
16.) Based on what policy you get national wonders give bonuses. Such as if you go honor heroic epic gives I don’t know maybe gives 20%-25%bonus rather than what it currently gives. Rationalism would increase oxford university output in science by 10% etc. Small changes.
17.) Honor maybe giving bonus vs walls and castle.

 

[rkelle7]

Nefliqus I agree with everything you wrote but I don't get what you mean by GS blump. And I still don't know what people mean by turn based movements in multiplayer. If you mean one at a time I think that would make already long games turn even longer.

 

[donhenriko]

I really like this thread. Good initiative.

the most important thing for me is course the GS nerf. As I see it, there is no incentive to get any other Great Person, except (rarely) a GE for wonder or (extremely rarely) GA to culturally take over citadels. IMO, there are 3 ways to go about it:

- Only possible to bulb a tech every 9 turns (as artist only can culture bomb every 9 turns)
- Make scientist so that science bulbing only generates a finite number of beakers. (Maybe be 1/2 of most expensive tech in each era.
- Remove science bulbing all together.

Maybe a mix of 1 and 2 would be the best way IMO.

Also the Piety vs Rationalism NO BRAINER must be rebalanced. Why would anyone want to pick piety when rationalism so much better?

 

[rkelle7]

1.) Balance natural wonders. Grand mesa make more powerful. Maybe cerro +8 gpt. etc.
2.) Bug with gifting cities
3.) Maybe make it so scouts are not able to attack cities. Also at a certain point before artillery upgrade scouts to explorer like in past civs? Also not able to take cities with scouts and explorer. Maybe at gunpowder it makes it an explorer.

 

[KiffeLesBiffles]

Kiff please tell us or message me exploits because I'm going to send this thread to firaxis after I summarize it. I did not know u could get infinite gold from pillaging razed city. And also what do you mean by naval combat problems? With the settler micromanagement build are you talking about it doesn't take into account more than +3 food? Just message me if you can.

1) For settler building: you can't lose pop with starvation when you build a settler -> need to be fixed.
2) Pillage improvement of razed city: It is not "infinite" gold but like 10 per turn per imporvement (15 gold in average from pillage -1 gold from the worker who repair -1 gold from unit the unit who pillage ). It is clearly cheating.
3) Another idea : Make units fortified by defaut at the beginning of the turn because in practice you can fortified all your units at the begining of the turn if you are quick and get a defensive bonus. It give an advantage to quick people/cpu. Or otherwise wait one turn more to give the fortification bonus.
4)Naval combat is just pure click festival in MP at the moment, that's why we dont play sea map in league. Frigates are also the most unbalance unit of the game.

For game mechanics, I would wait the new expansion before proposing something. We dont know what is going to come out from it.

 

[rkelle7]

For game mechanics, I would wait the new expansion before proposing something. We dont know what is going to come out from it.

I never wait Kiff lifes too short. I think they should have a stronger foundation to build on just like the pyramids my friend. Fix simple stuff before adding things like religion and espionage. Maybe they already fixed some of these problems I don't know until I ask!

 

[rkelle7]

Zhenon says :
1.) More detailed in-game system messages describing connection issues between players, such as "PLAYER X is dropping," or "Player X is resync'ing," or "No response from Player X." This will help players identify the person with the connection issue, so we can get him/her to fix the problem OR replace that person without scrapping the entire game out of ignorance.
2.) Fix end-of-turn/beginning-of-turn click spam resyncs. When players spam buttons to outmaneuver another player at the end of the turn, the game will lock up and go into a loading screen.
3.) There is no pause feature. Allow the host to pause the game so we can get a dropped player to hotjoin properly, instead of reloading a save.
4.) Add "pings" for teammates to communicate about specific hexes. This is very important in attack/defense strategy and in the planning of new cities.
5.) Allow us to draw or mark on the map. This is actually a great feature for SP too. You can write little reminders for yourself and others on an individual hex."

 

[rkelle7]

Maybe an ingame teamspeak option would be good? Such as steam speak but with multiple players built into the game?

1.) France +1 or +1.5 culture per turn in quick setting.
2.) Xbows possibly getting less defense. 8 maybe strength.
3.) Eliminating great person from end of liberty tree (maybe)
4.) Possibly choosing starting locations and/or choosing how far away you are from opponent.(maybe)

 

[Nefliqus]

Nefliqus I agree with everything you wrote but I don't get what you mean by GS blump. And I still don't know what people mean by turn based movements in multiplayer. If you mean one at a time I think that would make already long games turn even longer.

1) It should be "5) some turns break between GS bulb "

2) With clock like in chess turns should be even faster because no one will wait until the end of turn to make a double move.