Hugo Chavez going on a Nationalization Tear

[El_Machinae]

But doesn't that mean that the imperial Americans will be more likely to invade instead of let flounder in economic stagnation since we went to war with Iraq for oil why not Chavezistan too. The evil American empire is just a oil stealing warmongering crusader nation after all.

I don't truck with those 'Crusading Nation' theories, but I wonder if you'd change your attitude if (for some reason) the gov't found a reason to invade Chavezistan? Would you be offended by your country if there was a reason presented (and then followed through)?

 

[BasketCase]

Anyhow. The reason why I think Chavez is allowed to continue like this, to defy washington (and to mock!) so blantantly, is because

.....world opinion has become strongly anti-war and Chavez knows nobody is going to do anything about him.

 

[BasketCase]

Moving on from that to nationalization per se.

You've probably all heard the old saw already: it's their oil, it belongs to them, blabbity blah. The people who say this are generally leftie activist types, and they usually leave out the big picture--which I myself didn't see until very recently.

It is in fact Venezuela's oil--but right now, the Venezuelan people don't have the industrial capability or the know-how to get at the oil by themselves. Leading to this dilemma:


If they go abroad to hire the needed industry and expertise, said industry and expertise will not come free. Venezuela will have to fork over a percentage of their oil wealth. But they will get some of that oil wealth right now.

If they don't hire out--if they keep the oil for themselves--then for the near future, Venezuela gets NONE of its own oil wealth. The oil sits useless under the ground because the people can't get to it, and the people go poor and hungry.


The lefties always paint it as exploitation by the rich and powerful. But in reality it's simply an unpleasant solution to a problem for which all the solutions are equally unpleasant.

 

[amadeus]

Princeps-

I don't know, Ortega did quite a number on the country, though, didn't he?

The economy declined by about 40% during Ortega's tenure.

 

[Elrohir]

Is this really a surprise to anyone? He promised a socialist economy, and that's what he's building. I guess some politicians do stick to thier election promises, eh?

It's one of life's little ironies that the bad politicians stick to their campaign promises more often than the good ones.

 

[skadistic]

I don't truck with those 'Crusading Nation' theories, but I wonder if you'd change your attitude if (for some reason) the gov't found a reason to invade Chavezistan? Would you be offended by your country if there was a reason presented (and then followed through)?

I'm not sure any more reason then hes a despotic tyrant is needed. See people piss and moan when the US doesn't intervene and the tyrant kills. If the US does step in they piss and moan that we're imperialists.

But say that Chavez is training terrorists to attack America with the help of say......Iran. Thats more then enuff for me. Hell I'd settle the Crazy Pat plan of targeted asassination. Hugo needs to go for the good of the people who were foolish enough to elect him. I'm sure they were under the illusion that he could always be voted out.

I hope we wont need to do anything and the economy will tank soon. Then the bloodless coup can displace him and someone of real values will take power and fix what Hugo did. I won't hold my breath.

 

[Godwynn]

See people piss and moan when the US doesn't intervene

Darfur comes to mind here.

 

[skadistic]

Darfur comes to mind here.

Exactly. Say we do go in to help those people. All you'll hear is America is waging war against the good peace loving arab muslims (who happen to be systematicly eliminating the black christians) in a imperialistic ploy to take over Africa.


Why can't the Euros do anything in Darfur its not like they are tied up protecting SK from NK or Afghanistan from the hoards of tallies.

 

[CCA]

It's strange to have people saying that the Venezueland economy is in dire straights when it was only a few days ago that Chavez finished paying off the Venezueland national debt in it's entirity to the World Band. A feat which no other developing nation has achieved.

 

[eyrei]

It's strange to have people saying that the Venezueland economy is in dire straights when it was only a few days ago that Chavez finished paying off the Venezueland national debt in it's entirity to the World Band. A feat which no other developing nation has achieved.

Will you provide a source, please?

 

[amadeus]

Venezuela's national debt was not owed to the World Bank and the IMF.

 

[CCA]

Will you provide a source, please?

SURE:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18406119/

And ahead of schedule aas well:
"Venezuela, one of the world’s top oil exporters, recently repaid its debts to the World Bank five years ahead of schedule, saving $8 million. It paid off all its debts to the IMF shortly after Chavez first took office in 1999. The IMF closed its offices in Venezuela late last year."
(from the same article)

You want another source:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article2502081.ece

From the fair and balanced reporting at Fox News:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269310,00.html

Anything else?

 

[CCA]

Venezuela's national debt was not owed to the World Bank and the IMF.

Yes it was.....

 

[amadeus]

Venezuela has a $50 BILLION dollar debt, Francisco.

The money Venezuela owed to the IMF and World Bank wasn't probably even one tenth of one percent of Venezuela's debt.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Whoops, never mind.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Venezuela has a $50 BILLION dollar debt, Francisco.

The money Venezuela owed to the IMF and World Bank wasn't probably even one tenth of one percent of Venezuela's debt.

Per capita way less than America.

 

[Maimonides]

It's strange to have people saying that the Venezueland economy is in dire straights when it was only a few days ago that Chavez finished paying off the Venezueland national debt in it's entirity to the World Band. A feat which no other developing nation has achieved.

Will you provide a source, please?

Venezuela's national debt was not owed to the World Bank and the IMF.

SURE:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18406119/

And ahead of schedule aas well:
"Venezuela, one of the world’s top oil exporters, recently repaid its debts to the World Bank five years ahead of schedule, saving $8 million. It paid off all its debts to the IMF shortly after Chavez first took office in 1999. The IMF closed its offices in Venezuela late last year."
(from the same article)

You want another source:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article2502081.ece

From the fair and balanced reporting at Fox News:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269310,00.html

Anything else?

Venezuela has a $50 BILLION dollar debt, Francisco.

The money Venezuela owed to the IMF and World Bank wasn't probably even one tenth of one percent of Venezuela's debt.

A large point is either being ignored or overlooked here. The World Bank & the International Monetary Fund have both pulled out of Venezuela as a result of Chavez's actions.

Any national debt he paid off came from the assets of Venezuelan landowners & companies that he seized/stole by force.

 

[Bamspeedy]

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSN0325753520070503

 

[Tee Kay]

Typical. Third World countries want to control their own economies and improve the lives of its citizens and First World nations object cause they won't make as much money. What else is on?

 

[CCA]

A large point is either being ignored or overlooked here. The World Bank & the International Monetary Fund have both pulled out of Venezuela as a result of Chavez's actions.

Any national debt he paid off came from the assets of Venezuelan landowners & companies that he seized/stole by force.

I too can demand proof/source.

And demand source/proof I will