1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

HUMANKIND a Civ VI killer?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by ThunderLizard2, Nov 9, 2020.

  1. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    6,230
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    All this talk about what the Tower of Babel can do makes me want a wonder that can automatically make you win a diplo victory.
    And I'm talking about Shangri-La not the United Nations. :mischief:
     
  2. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Messages:
    1,824
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Earth
    Considering the U.N. is -----------------------------------------------------------------------, I agree with you that Shangri-La should be a Diplomatic Wonder. I do not believe in Wonders that automatically give you a Victory, though.
     
  3. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,495
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Isidro, Argentina.
    It has them, but without any individual bonuses like in Civ VI or EL. They have unique names, and they can be aggressive or peaceful, their armies can be levied or their cities integrated into your empire. They rise and fall over the course of the game, so you don't end up with ancient era Independent People in the industrial era, for example.

    That's an interesting take, but you are getting it wrong, at least regarding the base structure of the game (it has exploiting the terrain with a lot of different districts, has wonders, natural wonder, independent people, religion, civics tree with empire-wide values, etc). Although, to be fair, it also has the 60 culture bonuses, with unique quarters and units for each, plus a legacy trait that carries over. Also has some bonuses from religion, but are also quite down to earth as well.

    Maybe, maybe not. The game is quite complex, but takes the complexity in a different direction. Of course, will definitely add more things in any potential expansion. But I think it was a conscious decision to focus the more "crazy" stuff on cultures and some wonders, and keeping things like natural wonders and independent people a bit more homogeneous to create a good balance.
     
    CivLuvah, j51 and 8housesofelixir like this.
  4. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,385
    That is one thing I am unsure about Humankind's territory system. IP seems to only emerge in no man's land, or territories that haven't been taken by major cultures. In the Stadia OpenDev, the human and AI cultures can easily partition the entire continent into their own territory, whether through conquest or patronage, and left no more "blank" spaces for IP to spawn - that can happen before the Medieval Era.
     
  5. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    6,230
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    I wasn't being serious about Shangri-La being a wonder anyway. :p
     
  6. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,495
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Isidro, Argentina.
    Yeah, it depends a lot on map size. Small pangeas will surely run out of them fast, while a huge map, even with the 10 players, will have a lot of empty spaces for a longer time, plus on islands or even other continents.
     
  7. Xur

    Xur Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2016
    Messages:
    427
    The fact that it’s 17% off before it’s released does not suggest confidence in their own product. I can’t remember any good AAA games that offer a discount before release - it’s usually the bad games that does this.
     
  8. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    8,381
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    Well, first of all, there are no good AAA games; AAA games are mediocre by definition because big investors demand taking no risks. But more to the point, Humankind isn't a AAA game. I'd call it bigger than indie, but Amplitude is still a small studio.
     
    8housesofelixir, Elhoim and CivLuvah like this.
  9. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,569
    Location:
    France
    First, Amplitude is a developer, and the pre-purchase discount is Steam decision, not even SEGA, I suppose... (edit: I was wrong here, I just read the October announcement, the discount's announced by Amplitude, my bad :o)

    And well, I don't like civ6, that's true, but I don't think it's a bad game... yet I got it (thankfully!) at -37% for a boxed version ordered pre-release from a big store in France.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
  10. BackseatTyrant

    BackseatTyrant Queer Anarchotranshumanist

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Messages:
    251
    To answer the question being asked in the title: no; "the Vikings" were never a unified country, and I thought we had moved on from this myth over a decade ago
     
  11. CivLuvah

    CivLuvah Deity

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,056
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    From Philippines, now Canada
    The amount of effort they've put in so far feels like they're making an AAA title
     
    Meluhhan and Zaarin like this.
  12. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,495
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Isidro, Argentina.
    Not really. Plus it's the digital deluxe edition. The game at release will be around this price. So instead of saying "Pre-Order the game at full $50 price and get the digital deluxe edition for free", they sell the digital deluxe edition with a discount that places it at the $50 dollars the game will cost.
     
  13. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    3,443
    Location:
    north of Steilacoom, WA
    Unless somebody has an employee list and financial statement from Amplitude, I think it is more accurate to say that the amount of interest and commentary they've produced from the gaming community (specifically, the 4X Historical gaming community) makes it appear to be an AAA game.
    A lot of that, of course, is because there haven't been a lot of 4X historical games to comment on in the past. My impression, and that's all it is, is that they have been building up to this for years and have made some better decisions as to where to allocate their assets. Case in point: the animated Leaders of Civ VI, which have generated some discussion over in the Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread and which I would argue are a Resource Sink for graphics and other resources that could be better used elsewhere, as Humankind does.
     
    glider1, Sostratus, Elhoim and 2 others like this.
  14. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Messages:
    2,353
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Minnesota, USA
    HK looks pretty from the shots of the map we have seen, but that part is somewhat easy. Count up how many terrain types civ6 actually has- it’s not many, and several variants of graphics were added later. Maps aren’t that hard.
    Even making the city buildings look nice isn’t the biggest issue.
    What kills the Art budget is when you need 60 new and unique looking tiles To add into the map, or 60 unique palaces, or 60 unique unit models. Even Civ didn’t have 100% unique palaces at launch. I am not expecting absolute AAA polish, things like wonder movies/animations, for example. The other thing to watch for is how much marketing they do. Marketing Is $$$ and can be as much or more than development itself for AAA games.
    If the game is not really mass marketed In any meaningful way, that will likely tip off their budget level.
     
  15. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    3,443
    Location:
    north of Steilacoom, WA
    People generally underestimate the marketing/advertising costs of everything. The last figure I saw (in a class on Economic Geography, of all things), the actual cost of manufacturing a bar of bath soap was less than 10 cents. Everything else in the price is distribution, marketing, advertising costs and profit, and the profit is generally no more than pennies per bar. Given the drastic changes in marketing and distribution means (internet, electronic download, etc) I would not care to guess how the exact breakdown of costs measures out now, but I would not bet that the 'marketing' and Post Production/distribution costs are much less than the actual development and production costs.
     
    8housesofelixir likes this.
  16. ThunderLizard2

    ThunderLizard2 Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    171
    That's a really interesting comment. I liked EL and thought it was decent but got tired of the fantasy element after a while.

    That's the problem with studios like Firaxis and Paradox these days - too many artists and not enough programmers working on AI and key mechanics.
     
  17. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,385
    To be fair, if Firaxis has an artist overpopulation problem, then Paradox probably has an artist depopulation problem. Most of the games developed by Paradox Development Studio, if anything, are very meh at the level of art, especially 3d art, when compare to Firaxis (cf. no unique unit models, poor 3d combat animation combinations). They do have very good UI designs though.
     
  18. Kwami

    Kwami Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,915
    I don't know about that. Paradox sells unique unit models as separate DLC packs and pre-order bonuses and the like. I'm not sure what you like about their UIs, either. They often don't scale properly with screen resolution, they hide useful information many levels deep, and they often present inaccurate or simply incorrect information to the player. They've gotten somewhat better over the years, but, ...

    Amplitude's UIs have always been a pleasure to use. And the art is top notch. I just hope that the Humankind gameplay is better than EL or ES2.
     
  19. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,385
    Even with DLCs these models are still hard to match FXS's works. Besides, selling 3d models as separate DLC already says that Paradox's art team has certain constrains, as FXS never had this problem and would put all the unique arts in the main game/major DLCs (One can also argue that this is part of Paradox's traditional selling strategy, which I also agree).

    FXS also devoted a lot of resources into animations of buildings as of Civ VI - for instance, every Improvement has 3 different sets of animations: being worked, not being worked, and being pillaged - while Paradox games have little to none similar animations.

    That's sure, I do like how they tend to make a unique cover art for every single tech and build.

    Although I would say please don't just shrink the size of the said cover art and use it as a small button icon, I really can't tell what that icon means because the once beautiful picture is now a few colored patches.
     
  20. LoneRebel

    LoneRebel Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,318
    Location:
    Distinguished and Ever Loyal City
    Humankind a Civ killer? I doubt it, as I fully intend to play both.
     

Share This Page