HUMANKIND a Civ VI killer?

[Duke William of Normandy]

The English of HMK is Medieval English, which......didn't have anything interesting in their naval history besides being invaded by Norsemen and the decedents of Norsemen.

Oops... I still don't think farming is characteristic of Medieval England.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Oops... I still don't think farming is characteristic of Medieval England.

Before Tutor Period, England's economy was fundamentally an agricultural one, and before Black Death hits, England's population easily doubled within 300 years, one of the most speedy growth in human history. (British Isles were also the origin of a crucial agricultural revolution in Early Modern Era, although HMK doesn't have an Early Modern England.) Quickly growing population (as well as specialists) is the core mechanic of Agrarian affinity in HMK.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Before Tutor Period, England's economy was fundamentally an agricultural one, and before Black Death hits, England's population easily doubled within 300 years, one of the most speedy growth in human history. (British Isles were also the origin of a crucial agricultural revolution in Early Modern Era, although HMK doesn't have an Early Modern England.) Quickly growing population (as well as specialists) is the core mechanic of Agrarian affinity in HMK.

Perhaps something to do with animal husbandry and trading? English wool in the Medieval Ages was all the rage. It was the softest and most durable wool in Europe. You are right as well, but I feel pastures and commerce would suit England more.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Perhaps something to do with animal husbandry and trading? English wool in the Medieval Ages was all the rage. It was the softest and most durable wool in Europe. You are right as well, but I feel pastures and commerce would suit England more.

Under Humankind's categorization (?) of affinities animal husbandry should be also Agrarian. On the other hand, the current Medieval European Merchant is Byzantium - HMK doesn't have a Hanseatic or Lombardic culture for our city-states friends yet, and Venice is an Early Modern culture, so there is only Byzantium left.

And if you are asking "why isn't Byzantium Aesthete?" here is a reply from the Amplitude devs.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think the water in the canals are more than a drop and irrigation isn't something secret or mythical either. There is really nothing more to look into, just a quote.

Right I just meant that quote is probably just an interesting saying that ties in their unique attributes in game with them being agrarian and their canal network containing a multitude of drops.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Under Humankind's categorization (?) of affinities animal husbandry should be also Agrarian. On the other hand, the current Medieval European Merchant is Byzantium - HMK doesn't have a Hanseatic or Lombardic culture for our city-states friends yet, and Venice is an Early Modern culture, so there is only Byzantium left.

And if you are asking "why isn't Byzantium Aesthete?" here is a reply from the Amplitude devs.

Thanks.

 

[Abaxial]

For me, the thing is that I'm so used to Civ 6 that I can turn my brain off and just play it on autopilot. Playing the Humankind demo just didn't feel right. Likewise, I tried Civilisation Beyond Earth and couldn't really get into it. Whereas a friend of mine is the opposite - he plays CBE a lot and Civ 6 just doesn't click for him. It's what you are used to.

 

[LoneRebel]

Speaking of quotes - I know a lot of people dislike VI's quotes - then here are the Humankind culture quotes.

Ancient:
Nubians: "Anything under the sun can be exchanged for enough gold."
Olmecs: "All that was, and is, and will be, is written in the stars."
Phoenicians: "Unlike the lands, the seas give the merchant no obstructions."
Zhou: "Judge not an empire by the strength of its armies."
Assyrians: "The tallest blade is the first to be cut by the scythe."
Hittites: "Our charioteers must train for many moons before entering the battle."
Babylonians: "Where the mind can see, the physical body can follow."
Egyptians: "The seed cannot sprout upwards without also sending down roots."
Harappans: "In one drop of water are found all the secrets of life."
Mycenaeans: "Illustrious warriors have the whole earth for their tomb."

Classical:
Mayans: "Great feats of architecture honor the majesty of the cosmos."
Persians: "Go as far as eye can see and when you get there you'll see further."
Romans: "Throw me to the wolves and I will return leading the pack."
Aksumites: "The one who controls the market controls the world."
Greeks: "Let us clash words in the amphitheatron and swords on the battlefield."
Carthaginians: "Over seas and lands, our trade routes will criss-cross the world."
Celts: "Let the ballads to gods and heroes echo deep in our forests."
Goths: "The fallen will not be forgotten as we fight for greatness."
Huns: "All will think the world splits asunder upon hearing our steeds."
Mauryans: "Only a fool dismisses other cultures without consideration."

Medieval:
Norsemen: "The enemy's coastlines are long, and we are many."
Aztec: "May we witness the sun rise in a thousand lands."
Byzantines: "Let markets enrich us, and antiquities enlighten us."
Franks: "To do what is right, we must know what is right."
Ghanaians: "Our markets hold all the wonders of the senses."
Teutons: "Let justice be done, though the world perish."
Khmer: "A mountain never has two tigers."
English: "The plow is mightier than the sword."
Mongols: "Wind through the hair, blood on the blade. That is enough."
Umayyads: "In the mosques we pray, in the libraries we record."

Early Modern:
Edo Japanese: "Patience means restraining one's inclinations."
Haudenosaunee: "Let the roots of peace spread to all points of the compass."

Industrial:
Germans: "Waging war requires courage, purpose, and an iron determination."
Italians: "Art is fine food, great craftsmanship, and unrestrained passion."
British: "We are not interested in the possibility of defeat."
French: "Judge of a person by their questions rather than their answers."
Austro-Hungarians: "The language of music has no borders."
Mexicans: "They tried to bury us. They didn't know we were seeds."
Siamese: "Anything can be built with enough imagination."

I must say, I love the Mexicans' quote. As well as the Industrial Age British one - and that one's an actual quote from Victoria if I'm not mistaken.

And the one they used for the Teutons - Fiat justitia, ruat caelum. Badass, although I don't know if it has any specifically Teutonic context.

 

[8housesofelixir]

I must say, I love the Mexicans' quote. As well as the Industrial Age British one - and that one's an actual quote from Victoria if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, these are some of the good ones, highly related to their theme and history.

And the one they used for the Teutons - Fiat justitia, ruat caelum. Badass, although I don't know if it has any specifically Teutonic context.

The Lation version of Teuton's line is actually Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus - the motto of Ferdinand I, who was son of Joanna of Castile and a Holy Roman Emperor of 16th century.

His motto is used for Teutons because the "Teutons" of Humankind was initially named "the Holy Romans".

Therefore the Teutons of HMK is not just refer to Teutonic Orders, but all the Germanic people of the Medieval Era; you can also tell this from their EQ - Kaiserdom - an institution which is of very specific Holy Roman origin. Holy Roman Empire and Teutonic Orders were entirely separated political entities.

 

[notNamed]

Yeah, the quotes are a mix of real quotes by someone related to the state, real quotes but unrelated to the culture in question, references to other quotes and straight up invented ones.
Anyway, since then we've got the rest of Early Modern quotes up for anyone interested:

Dutch: "For the intrepid, the world is an endless festival of commerce."
Joseon: "As in the celestial realm, so in the earthly one."
Reference to Neo-Confucian philosophy. Possibly an existing motto.
Ming: "If your words are worthless, hold your tongue."
Shortened online "Chinese proverb" - 'If your strength is small, don't carry heavy burdens. if your words are worthless, don't give advice.', itself likely originating in 力微休负重，言轻莫劝人.
Mughals: "Pay your stonemasons well, for their works offer immortality."
Probably invented, though definitely one of the better ones if so. Going off the Builder affinity.
Ottomans: "All great cities are a living testament to an empire's glories."
Poles: "When surrounded by wolves, swords must be drawn."
Reference to the later history of Poland.
Spanish: "Every kingdom divided against itself shall be rendered desolate."
Extremely fitting. It's a Bible quote (Christianity) chosen to represent the way Spanish conquered the Americas (exploiting existing rivalries, or creating new ones through conversion if needed).
Venetians: "I will buy and sell with you -- and drink with you too."
Shakespeare quote from The Merchant of Venice. The original jewish character refuses to live among Christian, this quote inverts his speech (orig. I will do business.... but I will not eat with you, drink with you, nor pray with you.).
Edo Japanese: "Patience means restraining one's inclinations."
Supposedly a quote by Tokugawa Ieyasu, albeit one where you can only find Japanese translating the English version. Nevertheless, Ieyasu did produce a number of quotes on patience and his own is a part of the whole Sengoku mythology.
Haudenosaunee: "Let the roots of peace spread to all points of the compass."
Slight rewording of a portion of the Hodinoshoni Constitution's 'Roots have spread out from the Tree of the Great Peace, one to the north, one to the east, one to the south and one to the west.'
Maybe slightly obfuscating the fact that the Great Peace/peace is a translation of the name of the nation here, not really a message of bringing peace everywhere they go.

 

[LoneRebel]

Yeah, these are some of the good ones, highly related to their theme and history.



The Lation version of Teuton's line is actually Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus - the motto of Ferdinand I, who was son of Joanna of Castile and a Holy Roman Emperor of 16th century.

His motto is used for Teutons because the "Teutons" of Humankind was initially named "the Holy Romans".

Therefore the Teutons of HMK is not just refer to Teutonic Orders, but all the Germanic people of the Medieval Era; you can also tell this from their EQ - Kaiserdom - an institution which is of very specific Holy Roman origin. Holy Roman Empire and Teutonic Orders were entirely separated political entities.

Thank you for the explanation. I remember now that I'd read the Wikipedia article on "Fiat iustitia ruat caelum" (Let justice be done, though the heavens fall.) some time ago, which indeed links to the similar and related form you mentioned, and the latter is the correct Latin translation for the Teutons' line, I got them mixed up.

 

[ThunderLizard2]

I haven't played any Endless games, but to my knowledge (having a friend who is an old Amplitude fan who have tend to recommend the games to me constantly) the series put a strong emphasis on Heroes, making them mini-RPG protagonists. It seems Humankind will be their first game to not have Heroes, which is an interesting departure.

That's a good thing. It makes it more of a Civ -style game. Panzer Corp 2 has OP heros and for me it throws off the game pace with too much of an RNG impact.

Yeah, the quotes are a mix of real quotes by someone related to the state, real quotes but unrelated to the culture in question, references to other quotes and straight up invented ones.
Anyway, since then we've got the rest of Early Modern quotes up for anyone interested:

Dutch: "For the intrepid, the world is an endless festival of commerce."
Joseon: "As in the celestial realm, so in the earthly one."
Reference to Neo-Confucian philosophy. Possibly an existing motto.
Ming: "If your words are worthless, hold your tongue."
Shortened online "Chinese proverb" - 'If your strength is small, don't carry heavy burdens. if your words are worthless, don't give advice.', itself likely originating in 力微休负重，言轻莫劝人.
Mughals: "Pay your stonemasons well, for their works offer immortality."
Probably invented, though definitely one of the better ones if so. Going off the Builder affinity.
Ottomans: "All great cities are a living testament to an empire's glories."
Poles: "When surrounded by wolves, swords must be drawn."
Reference to the later history of Poland.
Spanish: "Every kingdom divided against itself shall be rendered desolate."
Extremely fitting. It's a Bible quote (Christianity) chosen to represent the way Spanish conquered the Americas (exploiting existing rivalries, or creating new ones through conversion if needed).
Venetians: "I will buy and sell with you -- and drink with you too."
Shakespeare quote from The Merchant of Venice. The original jewish character refuses to live among Christian, this quote inverts his speech (orig. I will do business.... but I will not eat with you, drink with you, nor pray with you.).
Edo Japanese: "Patience means restraining one's inclinations."
Supposedly a quote by Tokugawa Ieyasu, albeit one where you can only find Japanese translating the English version. Nevertheless, Ieyasu did produce a number of quotes on patience and his own is a part of the whole Sengoku mythology.
Haudenosaunee: "Let the roots of peace spread to all points of the compass."
Slight rewording of a portion of the Hodinoshoni Constitution's 'Roots have spread out from the Tree of the Great Peace, one to the north, one to the east, one to the south and one to the west.'
Maybe slightly obfuscating the fact that the Great Peace/peace is a translation of the name of the nation here, not really a message of bringing peace everywhere they go.

Thanks for the list - seems very well thought out.

 

[Chekko]

What I like about the game is how it will make Firaxis pay more attention to developing Civ games. All this competition will benefit fans of all these games.

 

[ThunderLizard2]

What I like about the game is how it will make Firaxis pay more attention to developing Civ games. All this competition will benefit fans of all these games.

Two outcomes:

1) Humankind is a big success and the hard core fanbase moves to that franchise leaving Civ to casuals
2) Firaxis takes notice and gets their act together (sort of like what AMD did for Intel)

I'm planning on scenario 1 but hoping for 2. How likely to you think it is that Firaxis will change their stripes and put out a quality product?

 

[Kwami]

Two outcomes:

1) Humankind is a big success and the hard core fanbase moves to that franchise leaving Civ to casuals
2) Firaxis takes notice and gets their act together (sort of like what AMD did for Intel)

I'm planning on scenario 1 but hoping for 2. How likely to you think it is that Firaxis will change their stripes and put out a quality product?

Or, most likely, #3: Most players continue to play Civ and some of them also play Humankind because both games are enjoyable.

Firaxis already puts out quality products, of course.

 

[criZp]

Firaxis already puts out quality products, of course.

*!* This claim is disputed

 

[Zaarin]

Or, most likely, #3: Most players continue to play Civ and some of them also play Humankind because both games are enjoyable.

Firaxis already puts out quality products, of course.

This. I have no doubt Humankind will be a great game, being a big fan of Amplitude, but it's not going to seriously hurt Civilization in any meaningful way because fans of the genre will play both games.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

This. I have no doubt Humankind will be a great game, being a big fan of Amplitude, but it's not going to seriously hurt Civilization in any meaningful way because fans of the genre will play both games.

As witnessed by the recent splurge of playing the Humankind Lucy OpenDev version with commentary on these forums while at the same time dissecting the latest offering in Civ VI's NFP collection. The two games' player base is by no means exclusive to either one.

 

[The Civs 6]

This. I have no doubt Humankind will be a great game, being a big fan of Amplitude, but it's not going to seriously hurt Civilization in any meaningful way because fans of the genre will play both games.

I dunno. Having Old World, which is only going to get better, and the promise of Humankind, sure makes a $40 NFP 2 with carnival games or whatever xtra-light content they want to add look like not a very amazing value proposition.

It's like I can either get more poorly thought out fluff at AAA prices from the Civ 6 people, or I can get solid new content potentially at AA prices - one from the man who designed the greatest game in Civ history, and the other from a studio that has developed the industry-leading reputation for improving and supporting their game years after launch.

 

[Patine]

This. I have no doubt Humankind will be a great game, being a big fan of Amplitude, but it's not going to seriously hurt Civilization in any meaningful way because fans of the genre will play both games.

Looking at the previews, while it may be fun to play around with, I don't see it even remotely eclipsing Civ for me.