Humankind - Byzantines discussion thread

[Eagle Pursuit]

https://twitter.com/humankindgame/status/1255165283209224200?s=19

Emblematic Unit: Varangian Guard
Emblematic Quarter: Hippodromos

Classification: Merchant

 

[Jkchart]

https://twitter.com/humankindgame/status/1255165283209224200?s=19

Interesting design!

I'm curious as to why they picked the Varangian guard, but after an over-representation of Cataphracts and Dromons in Civ, it is a welcome change.

Hippodrome as expected. I love the Merchant focus, because really they had such a strong economy and their trade was the lifeblood of medieval europe.

Yay! Really want to play them.

 

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

Please note: Byzantines are actually the second Medieval Culture. We had to skip the first one to put the final touches on the art.

On why we picked the Varangians over Cataphracts:

• As you will see, there are already a few other mounted Emblematic Units in this era
• It's an interesting link to a different culture, which fits Humankind's theme that cultures change and interact.
• They are often regarded as one of the most skillful regiments in the Byzantine forces.

 

[Jkchart]

Please note: Byzantines are actually the second Medieval Culture. We had to skip the first one to put the final touches on the art.

On why we picked the Varangians over Cataphracts:

• As you will see, there are already a few other mounted Emblematic Units in this era
• It's an interesting link to a different culture, which fits Humankind's theme that cultures change and interact.
• They are often regarded as one of the most skillful regiments in the Byzantine forces.

Thanks for the explanation! That makes a lot of sense, rather than having so many unique mounted units.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

Fantastic! A great choice of merchant culture and the Varangian guard are fascinating and well worth highlighting with an EU.

 

[j51]

Woo! So excited! Really miss them from Civ 6.

 

[bite]

Please note: Byzantines are actually the second Medieval Culture. We had to skip the first one to put the final touches on the art.

On why we picked the Varangians over Cataphracts:

• As you will see, there are already a few other mounted Emblematic Units in this era
• It's an interesting link to a different culture, which fits Humankind's theme that cultures change and interact.
• They are often regarded as one of the most skillful regiments in the Byzantine forces.

I sense some Aztecs in our future

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Varangian Guard were also a potential source of Influence in other Culture/Factions, as in historically, the veteran Varangian Harald Hardradda who went back home and raised H**l in Scandinavia and England as a military leader. . .

 

[grug]

Especially with their merchant focus, I feel like the Byzantines could have some cool uses of gifts and diplomacy. Their use of the Bureau of Barbarians and bribing various tribes to keep their rivals in check on their northern border, along with paying enormous tribute to both the Sassanians and Arabs to keep the peace, could translate to cool mechanics in game. I could see them being able to force certain diplomatic options by buying them (similar to the Drakken in EL). I believe they also helped sponsor revolts in the lands of their enemies by supporting rivals for the throne, which in line with their use of gold in diplomacy could be seen in game as paying to decrease stability or cause a city to revolt. If minor factions are included in DLC I could see the Byzantines being able to bribe them to declare war on others, take over their armies, or paying to reverse their pacification (similar to the Morgawr in EL).

 

[Krajzen]

1) Thank God we get Byzantium
2) Varangian Guard is very welcome, seeing how civ had cataphracts and dromons last time
3) Why didn't I think about Byz being merchant? Original take but quite cool.
4) Beautiful art

 

[ehecatzin]

So happy to see Byzantium in, I think we can all relate to the annoying feeling of having to wait two expansions before getting them. Honestly I thought they would be Aesthete but merchant sounds very good, besides they seem like they are going to be very well rounded civ.

As for the first unreleased culture, time to especulate because they skipped two A's, so either Arabia is actually Umayyads or Aztecs are Mexica, and I'd rather the Aztecs be called Mexica, because thats what they called themselves.

 

[Krajzen]

As for the first unreleased culture, time to especulate because they skipped two A's, so either Arabia is actually Umayyads or Aztecs are Mexica, and I'd rather the Aztecs be called Mexica, because thats what they called themselves.

I don't think Aztecs will be called Mexica, cultures in this game are called by their exonyms and more well knows names as a rule of simplification. Persia instead of Iran, Celts, Byzantium itself instead of second "Rome", and so on. It would also make adding Mexico modern civ impossible, and it's one of the most probable LatAm civs.

Instead I think either Arabs have another name, Aztecs are early modern, or some "must have medieval" civ is not so must have after all

 

[Guandao]

How about Anglo-Saxon England as the faction they skipped? It's the only example besides Arabs/Aztecs that I can think of at the moment.

 

[ehecatzin]

I don't think Aztecs will be called Mexica, cultures in this game are called by their exonyms and more well knows names as a rule of simplification. Persia instead of Iran, Celts, Byzantium itself instead of second "Rome", and so on. It would also make adding Mexico modern civ impossible, and it's one of the most probable LatAm civs.

Instead I think either Arabs have another name, Aztecs are early modern, or some "must have medieval" civ is not so must have after all

The thing is that we've seen city graphics from the Goths going to mesoamerican, and judging by the look of them,they are at least from central Mexico, other options for medieval mesoamerican would be the Toltecs, if they were in I think we could kiss the Incas goodbye for vanilla as it would move the Aztecs up an era.

 

[conorbebe]

Hmm, I have some thoughts.

Of course it's nice to see the Byzantines make it into the base game, as there's no doubt they deserve a place in the Medieval Era lineup. That being said, I can't help but feel like there's a need for a seventh culture type here - "Religious".

When I think of the Byzantine Empire, the first thing to come to mind is the Hagia Sophia, and the various other Eastern Orthodox churches that were built by them. Constantinople was a stronghold for Christianity during the Middle Ages, and it was this dedication to religion and to God that fueled many of the empire's most impressive accomplishments, from art and science, to architecture and territorial expansion.

Hippodromes meanwhile were an ancient Greek invention, and is the Hippodrome of Constantinople even a hippodrome? Surely it's a Roman circus? Nevertheless, I'd hardly call it "emblematic" of the Byzantine Empire.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

On why we picked the Varangians over Cataphracts:

• As you will see, there are already a few other mounted Emblematic Units in this era
• It's an interesting link to a different culture, which fits Humankind's theme that cultures change and interact.
• They are often regarded as one of the most skillful regiments in the Byzantine forces.

I'd also like to add that the Cataphracts were Iranian in origin and used by many other cultures, throughout the Mediterranean and Middle East, so to me it would make more sense anyway as a universal mounted unit.
Varangian guard is nice even though I would have preferred Dromons.

Hippodromes meanwhile were an ancient Greek invention, and is the Hippodrome of Constantinople even a hippodrome? Surely it's a Roman circus? Nevertheless, I'd hardly call it "emblematic" of the Byzantine Empire.

In Civ 4 the Byzantines had the Hippodrome. I think it's fine.

 

[Guandao]

Hmm, I have some thoughts.

Of course it's nice to see the Byzantines make it into the base game, as there's no doubt they deserve a place in the Medieval Era lineup. That being said, I can't help but feel like there's a need for a seventh culture type here - "Religious".

When I think of the Byzantine Empire, the first thing to come to mind is the Hagia Sophia, and the various other Eastern Orthodox churches that were built by them. Constantinople was a stronghold for Christianity during the Middle Ages, and it was this dedication to religion and to God that fueled many of the empire's most impressive accomplishments, from art and science, to architecture and territorial expansion.

Hippodromes meanwhile were an ancient Greek invention, and is the Hippodrome of Constantinople even a hippodrome? Surely it's a Roman circus? Nevertheless, I'd hardly call it "emblematic" of the Byzantine Empire.

I do know some Civfanatics here were tired of the portrayal of the Byzantines as a primarily religious Civ (especially in Civ5).

 

[Gwydden]

Hmm, I have some thoughts.

Of course it's nice to see the Byzantines make it into the base game, as there's no doubt they deserve a place in the Medieval Era lineup. That being said, I can't help but feel like there's a need for a seventh culture type here - "Religious".

When I think of the Byzantine Empire, the first thing to come to mind is the Hagia Sophia, and the various other Eastern Orthodox churches that were built by them. Constantinople was a stronghold for Christianity during the Middle Ages, and it was this dedication to religion and to God that fueled many of the empire's most impressive accomplishments, from art and science, to architecture and territorial expansion.

Hippodromes meanwhile were an ancient Greek invention, and is the Hippodrome of Constantinople even a hippodrome? Surely it's a Roman circus? Nevertheless, I'd hardly call it "emblematic" of the Byzantine Empire.

Religion is confirmed to be in the game, but we don't know how it works yet. It might not make sense to have it be an archetype for some reason.

 

[conorbebe]

Varangian guard is nice even though I would have preferred Dromons.

Admittedly I would have also preferred to see Dromons. Other than the Vikings, I don't predict any other Medieval Era cultures to have naval units. The Byzantine navy was one of the most powerful during the Middle Ages, perhaps second only to the Arabian fleets of which consisted of ships likely inspired by Byzantine shipbuilding. It also would have been cool to see "Greek Fire" make an appearance, as it was predominantly utilised by Byzantine fleets via siphons attached to bow of Dromons.

I do know some Civfanatics here were tired of the portrayal of the Byzantines as a primarily religious Civ (especially in Civ5).

Ah, well as someone who didn't join the forum until after the reveal of Civilization VI, I wasn't aware of this. But my natural association of the Byzantines is with religion.

Religion is confirmed to be in the game, but we don't know how it works yet. It might not make sense to have it be an archetype for some reason.

That's what I'm thinking too. Clearly, although religion is featured, it is not considered one of the primary sources of Fame, which seems odd to me considering the huge impact and legacy that religion has had on human history and society.

 

[Zaarin]

That being said, I can't help but feel like there's a need for a seventh culture type here - "Religious".

Based on my knowledge of previous Amplitude games, I'd take a guess that Aesthete is religious.