I can't believe I'm reading this

[Thoughtful Thug]

I don't claim to know which is best, I just claim that the American system is terrible.

In order to measure something that is terrible with something else that is better, you have to know what it is to make that judgement.

 

[squadbroken]

In order to measure something that is terrible with something else that is better, you have to know what it is to make that judgement.

Better, not best. There are plenty of systems better than the American one - pretty much every one in northern/western Europe. But determining which is best is a different story.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I don't mean to approve the Judge's action (I don't), but the statement that at least many teachers are attracted to a "child" (by child meaning under the age of 18) they teach sounds in deed most reasonable to me.
It is naive and ridicilous to think that the by us defined legal age corresponds with the potential for sexual attraction. And the position of authority and direct responsibility hold by a teacher surely fuels such potential attraction.

 

[civver_764]

The judge should be sacked and probably jailed. She is likely mentally ill and possibly a paedophile herself.

For a socialist, your conservatism never ceases to amaze me. She should be jailed simply for being born with attraction to children(assuming that is even the case, which you base on virtually nothing)?

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

Better, not best. There are plenty of systems better than the American one - pretty much every one in northern/western Europe. But determining which is best is a different story.

Give me an example of which one in any of the Northern or Western European country that has a better legal system than United States.

And fyi , United States is more complex than you think. We are speaking of local, state, and federal level here. Add to that, you got different set of judges, lawyers, and different situations for every cases.

 

[PlutonianEmpire]

For a socialist, your conservatism never ceases to amaze me. She should be jailed simply for being born with attraction to children(assuming that is even the case, which you base on virtually nothing)?

Not to mention he's practicing the very "mindless conservatism" he complained about in a thread title a few months ago, IIRC.

As for me, I side with the judge. The world is already too harsh with sex offenders as it is.

 

[squadbroken]

Give me an example of which one in any of the Northern or Western European country that has a better legal system than United States.

And fyi , United States is more complex than you think. We are speaking of local, state, and federal level here.

Why exactly do you need a specific nation? Is this just typical OT anal-retentive nonsense where we whittle down the argument to such a microscopic point that the overall picture is lost? Are you going to try to pull a gotcha where you bring up some obscure case that somehow proves me wrong?

You stated "But in a American court, this guy would get time." as if this somehow matters, as if the American system is the model by which others should be judged, when it's so dysfunctional and unjust that it's achieved the status of a running joke worldwide.

As far as local, state, federal... there's little need to differentiate, since it's pretty awful on all those levels.

 

[civver_764]

We're too harsh on pedophiles in general. There needs to be some serious reaching out to them, not the horrible stigma they face simply for being who they are. It would prevent a lot of these child molestation cases in the first place if they were simply offered the help they need.

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

Why exactly do you need a specific nation? Is this just typical OT anal-retentive nonsense where we whittle down the argument to such a microscopic point that the overall picture is lost?

You should see some of the guys here. They are brutal about details more than me.

There is no harm in knowing and examining the details a little bit more in order to get a better view of the overall picture. If you don't want to answer my questions, then go about in a lazy man way of looking at the world. To each its own.

And seriously, I have been lazy at times too.

 

[squadbroken]

You should see some of the guys here. They are brutal about details more than me.

There is no harm in knowing and examining the details a little bit more in order to get a better view of the overall picture. If you don't want to answer my questions, then go about in a lazy man way of looking at the world. To each its own.

And seriously, I have been lazy at times too.

It has less to do with laziness and more to do with me not wanting to sit here for hours poring over pages of minutiae that ultimately means little (or nothing). I know that's anathema to some OTers but I've seen it in action and it very rarely results in anything of value.

 

[NovaKart]

It's hardly nitpicking. You said that the European justice system is superior to the American one and gave absolutely nothing to back it up. It's also a really broad statement. There may be certain things about one system or the other that are better.

 

[timtofly]

We're too harsh on pedophiles in general. There needs to be some serious reaching out to them, not the horrible stigma they face simply for being who they are. It would prevent a lot of these child molestation cases in the first place if they were simply offered the help they need.

I thought it was impossible to help someones sexual orientation? They are what they are. I understand the hurt process involved, but really now. We "help" the one, but not the other? You realize the precedent has already been set that one can not change their orientation, and since their "examples" have said it is ok, then each new generation is going to face even graver situations. I am sorry, we have our cake and now we are going to have to eat it.

 

[Arakhor]

Are you really talking about paedophilia as if it's a sexual orientation??

 

[timtofly]

Are you really talking about paedophilia as if it's a sexual orientation??

Would that cause someone to be arrested if it were true?

 

[NovaKart]

That would be an interesting if disturbing topic. I think it's classified as a paraphilia. Being gay myself I don't like the comparison but I have to admit maybe you could describe it as an orientation. I don't think it really has any bearing on homosexuality since homosexuality does not involve abusing someone.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I know that's anathema to some OTers but I've seen it in action and it very rarely results in anything of value.

I think this kind of view stems from the opinion that you surely are right but that you assume yourself unable to sufficiently back up your opinion in order to convince the other side within a frame of reasonable effort (naturally because the other side is too thickheaded ).
If you allow yourself to assume a real possibility that there are some important aspects you have not fully considered or understood, but the other side may have, you may find sth. of value instead of frustration. If the other side does the same, all the better.

 

[amadeus]

Some of my thoughts have already been expressed in this thread, namely that this judge is a nut and we should consider the reason for these paraphilia. I think there has been a recent cultural shift towards promoting tolerance if not outright encouragement of sexuality and sexual experimentation in children.

 

[Disgustipated]

I don't claim to know which is best, I just claim that the American system is terrible.

If you can't name one better, then how do you know the American one is terrible?

I know I'm biased, but I happen to think we have the best system without a doubt. Yes we have lots of people in prison, but they are in prison because they belong there (with the exception of drug offenders, but that's a political problem, not judicial).

 

[Cutlass]

Some of my thoughts have already been expressed in this thread, namely that this judge is a nut and we should consider the reason for these paraphilia. I think there has been a recent cultural shift towards promoting tolerance if not outright encouragement of sexuality and sexual experimentation in children.

Only by Disney. But then, that's not new.

 

[Snorrius]

tl;dr - supply teacher who had an attraction to children and who owned a catalogue of pornagraphic material depicting children (cartoons)

Actually why should some be jailed for having cartoons? These guy have not made sex with real children, he just masturbated on some pics. Why masturbating on pics have to be a criminal issue is beyond my understanding. And if this pics are cartoons then no real child was harmed so why should make fuss of it?

Judge gave him harsh enough penalty - inability to use computer or other electronic device able to connect to Internet is harsh enough and enough to ruin a life in modern world. I would not be surprised if guy will move from cartoon children to real ones being unable to keep his urges under control using fantasized material.